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membleypeg 11-17-2003 10:12 AM

Van/NYI proposal
 
With the NYI apparently looking to shed some salary, I wonder if the following proposal makes sense.

To NYI - Sopel, Umberger, 2005 2nd rounder
To Van - Parrish, Cairns

Reasoning

Vancouver adds to offensive punch with Parrish, especially on the right side. Vancouver also adds a defensive defenceman who will provide the enforcer needs to the lineup. Vancouver can afford to trade an offensive minded defensman with prospects Mojsis and Koltsov on the horizon.

NYI adds an inexpensive defenseman to the lineup who provides an offensive threat. NYI also add a potential top 6 forward to the minor league roster. A second rounder provides a decent chance at a future prospect. NYI can apparently afford to trade a player like Parrish (at this salary) due to the emergence of players like Hunter and Weinhandle. This trade frees up part of the NYI logjam at forward.

Salary considerations

NYI shed a few million dollars of salary to help in the transaction.

Vancouver adds a few million in the hopes that these are the last steps needed to make a cup run. Vancouver is now able to trade forward assets (with this aquisition they now have an unmanageable log jam at
forward). They are able to trade off Lindgren and Ruutu/May to help offset salary constraints and try and recover some draft picks.

Peter Griffin 11-17-2003 10:16 AM

With the way Jason King and the Sedins are playing, Parrish isn't needed.

Darth Milbury 11-17-2003 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by membleypeg
With the NYI apparently looking to shed some salary, I wonder if the following proposal makes sense.

To NYI - Sopel, Umberger, 2005 2nd rounder
To Van - Parrish, Cairns

Reasoning

Vancouver adds to offensive punch with Parrish, especially on the right side. Vancouver also adds a defensive defenceman who will provide the enforcer needs to the lineup. Vancouver can afford to trade an offensive minded defensman with prospects Mojsis and Koltsov on the horizon.

NYI adds an inexpensive defenseman to the lineup who provides an offensive threat. NYI also add a potential top 6 forward to the minor league roster. A second rounder provides a decent chance at a future prospect. NYI can apparently afford to trade a player like Parrish (at this salary) due to the emergence of players like Hunter and Weinhandle. This trade frees up part of the NYI logjam at forward.

Salary considerations

NYI shed a few million dollars of salary to help in the transaction.

Vancouver adds a few million in the hopes that these are the last steps needed to make a cup run. Vancouver is now able to trade forward assets (with this aquisition they now have an unmanageable log jam at
forward). They are able to trade off Lindgren and Ruutu/May to help offset salary constraints and try and recover some draft picks.

I appreciate the effort. But, IMO, there isn't any aspect of this deal that is at all doable.

First, I'm not sure the Isles are going to "shed millions of dollars" with this deal. Umberger wants a big contract with lots of incentives to sign. In the end, he'll wind up costing the Isles more money than Parrish. And, the fact that he has been unwilling to sign with VCR makes him even less desirable.

As for Sopel, I can't imagine the Isles would have even vague interest in him. He'd be our #5 dman - at best. I personally think he'd rank below Martinek as well. The Isles would like to recall Timander, so they want to move one of their #5 - #7 dmen.

I could see the Isles moving Parrish at some point. But, don't see VCR as a likely destination. The players VCR seems to want to move (Allen, Umberger, Sopel) wouldn't be of any interest.

The Pucks 11-17-2003 10:31 AM

Sorry Darth, your a little missinformed on this one point. Umberger is asking for aprox 925 grand per, for a 3 years deal, 2 way. Burke is offering 800 grand.

Its not a case of Umberger asking for big bucks, it is a case of Burke trying to take advantage of a situation and force him to sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I appreciate the effort. But, IMO, there isn't any aspect of this deal that is at all doable.

First, I'm not sure the Isles are going to "shed millions of dollars" with this deal. Umberger wants a big contract with lots of incentives to sign. In the end, he'll wind up costing the Isles more money than Parrish. And, the fact that he has been unwilling to sign with VCR makes him even less desirable.

As for Sopel, I can't imagine the Isles would have even vague interest in him. He'd be our #5 dman - at best. I personally think he'd rank below Martinek as well. The Isles would like to recall Timander, so they want to move one of their #5 - #7 dmen.

I could see the Isles moving Parrish at some point. But, don't see VCR as a likely destination. The players VCR seems to want to move (Allen, Umberger, Sopel) wouldn't be of any interest.


Darth Milbury 11-17-2003 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pucks
Sorry Darth, your a little missinformed on this one point. Umberger is asking for aprox 925 grand per, for a 3 years deal, 2 way. Burke is offering 800 grand.

Its not a case of Umberger asking for big bucks, it is a case of Burke trying to take advantage of a situation and force him to sign.




The money you are talking about here is close to the rookie max. I don't know the particulars of those contract negotiations but I'm wiling to bet there are at least some incentives in the deal (because I've never seen a first or second rounder sign without ANY incentives or performance bonuses).

In the end, this deal would not "shed millions of dollars" as per the orginal posters suggestion. It could actually end up increasing the Isles payroll. I know that Sopel doens't make all that much. But Sopel + Umberger will eventually cost more than Parrish. Even in the short term, the deal is not a huge savings. Parrish only makes 2.3 million.

Owen Wilson 11-17-2003 10:40 AM

If the Isles are seriously looking to shed salary, they take this deal and run. They've been looking to get rid of Parrish since last year at the deadline and Cairns is average at best, he wouldn't make it into Vancouver's top 4. So, to get a prospect, an upgrade on D and a 2nd rounder for giving up not much, they'd take it and run.

BTW, Parrish isn't needed in Vancouver, King is doing just fine.

Darth Milbury 11-17-2003 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen Wilson
If the Isles are seriously looking to shed salary, they take this deal and run. They've been looking to get rid of Parrish since last year at the deadline and Cairns is average at best, he wouldn't make it into Vancouver's top 4. So, to get a prospect, an upgrade on D and a 2nd rounder for giving up not much, they'd take it and run.

BTW, Parrish isn't needed in Vancouver, King is doing just fine.

Where is the evidence that the Isles have been looking to get rid of Parrish since last deadline? In fact, that is hardly the case. The Isles have only recently considered moving him after Trent Hunter's emergence. And, I'm not all that sure they too keen on moving him now.

As for Cairns, calling him average is generous. He is below average and wouldn't make VCR's top four, for sure.

Sopel is an upgrade in the sense that he is better than Cairns. But, that is a moot point. He isn't close to being good enough to play in the Isles top four. The Isles wouldn't have a vague interest in him. The Isles want to delete a depth defensemen, not add another one. In fact, this deal would be better if it was just Umberger and a pick and NOT Sopel.

And, there is still the issue of Umberger not wanting to sign and his contract having the potential to cost the Isles money in the longterm.

None of this is remotely feasable.

Yeah, King is doing fine. I agree. But, that only means that this is a deal that doens't work from either side.

Mr. Canucklehead 11-17-2003 11:42 AM

I agree with Darth, this deal isn't really needed or doable from either side. Parrish, while he would be a nice addition, is more expensive than Jason King who is performing more than admirably with the Sedin Twins on our second line. Sopel and Umberger and a 2nd rounder for an offensive player that isn't needed, and a spare part enforcer in Eric Cairns is not the type of deal the Canucks need.

If the Canucks are going to get an enforcer of some kind, I think they'll likely go after Eric Boulton from Buffalo. Trade winds have been blowing between Buffalo and Vancouver for some time now, with the names of Afinogenov, Boulton, and Allen being thrown around. So who knows.

~Canucklehead~

Peter Griffin 11-17-2003 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Yeah, King is doing fine. I agree. But, that only means that this is a deal that doens't work from either side.

Agreed, the Isles and Nucks aren't good trading partners. I can't count how many times myself and other posters have said the same over the last year or so... :)

Darth Milbury 11-17-2003 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Agreed, the Isles and Nucks aren't good trading partners. I can't count how many times myself and other posters have said the same over the last year or so... :)


True, but give membleypeg and other Nuck fans credit for a least trying to come up with deals that are fair and reasonable, if not ideal for the needs of the two teams.

neelynugs 11-17-2003 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
With the way Jason King and the Sedins are playing, Parrish isn't needed.

i haven't really seen this kid play- is he for real, is he way above his head, or is he a decent guy that thrives with good linemates?

NFITO 11-17-2003 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neelynugs
i haven't really seen this kid play- is he for real, is he way above his head, or is he a decent guy that thrives with good linemates?

King is playing really well... better than I think any Canuck fan could have expected.

The great thing though with his play is that he's actually effective even if you minus his offensive production... he's a great match for the Sedins - cause like the twins he never hurts you out there defensively... and the line spends most of the majority of their shifts in the offensive zone.

My only concern right now with him is durability... he's taking a pounding on a regular basis in the offensive zone, and still always seems to head to the front of the net every game... so far he hasn't shown signs of fatigue or shying away from the physical play due to this constant pounding, but right now he's not a big guy and I'd think that eventually it's going to catch up to him... he needs to put on about 10-15 pounds more to play the style he does... not many players can take that kind of punishment every game and not get injured.

but so far, he's probably been our most consistent player offensively... and that line has been our best line overall - from game 1 on... I just hope they don't slow down, but from the physical punishment that whole line has been taking, it's only a matter of time before they slow down, or get injured IMO.

NFITO 11-17-2003 12:56 PM

I agree with the other posters here... doesn't look like there is a good match between these two teams... the Isles not only have enough dmen, they have enough offensive dmen on their team... I don't see any need for Sopel, when you already have Aucoin, Hamrlik and Ninnimma (and Jonnson) capable of providing offense from the blueline.

I also don't think that the Canucks are in any position to add any more salary - definitely not another team's salary dump (like in the Isles case where in a deal they would want to lose at least some salary)... with the Bertuzzi extension, I don't think we have any more room to spare - and we still have 2 big RFAs to lockup after this season (Morrison and Ohlund).

I also don't think that Parrish is at all needed... and Carins, although a tough dman, would be a #6 on our team, and that too until Slegr takes that spot from him.

If there are any players on the Isles that we could use, IMO the best fit would be Scatchard (if not for his previous fallout with Crawford)... I'd love to see us acquire a gritty 2-way center like him, to allow Linden to move back to the right wing, and have Chubarov on the 4th line...

other than that, we're pretty much set IMO... we're in a slump right now, but that can be directly linked to the top line's slump - and they won't be in it forever... the other lines are playing well, as is the defense overall.

fabs 11-17-2003 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by membleypeg
With the NYI apparently looking to shed some salary, I wonder if the following proposal makes sense.

To NYI - Sopel, Umberger, 2005 2nd rounder
To Van - Parrish, Cairns

Reasoning

Vancouver adds to offensive punch with Parrish, especially on the right side. Vancouver also adds a defensive defenceman who will provide the enforcer needs to the lineup. Vancouver can afford to trade an offensive minded defensman with prospects Mojsis and Koltsov on the horizon.

NYI adds an inexpensive defenseman to the lineup who provides an offensive threat. NYI also add a potential top 6 forward to the minor league roster. A second rounder provides a decent chance at a future prospect. NYI can apparently afford to trade a player like Parrish (at this salary) due to the emergence of players like Hunter and Weinhandle. This trade frees up part of the NYI logjam at forward.

Salary considerations

NYI shed a few million dollars of salary to help in the transaction.

Vancouver adds a few million in the hopes that these are the last steps needed to make a cup run. Vancouver is now able to trade forward assets (with this aquisition they now have an unmanageable log jam at
forward). They are able to trade off Lindgren and Ruutu/May to help offset salary constraints and try and recover some draft picks.


the islanders already have 2 many defencemen

Jag68Sid87 11-17-2003 01:16 PM

How about trading Trevor Linden for Todd Bertuzzi...oh wait, sorry, flashback.

I would think Milbury's lost the Vancouver Canucks' phone number after that one.


Rock on, Mad Mike.

NFITO 11-17-2003 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
How about trading Trevor Linden for Todd Bertuzzi...oh wait, sorry, flashback.

I would think Milbury's lost the Vancouver Canucks' phone number after that one.


Rock on, Mad Mike.

damn... I hope not... Millbury's my favorite GM, as long as he deals with the Canucks, not for them :)

don't forget that McCabe and Ruutu were part of that Linden deal too!

Jones23 11-17-2003 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
How about trading Trevor Linden for Todd Bertuzzi...oh wait, sorry, flashback.

I would think Milbury's lost the Vancouver Canucks' phone number after that one.


Rock on, Mad Mike.

How's Potvin doing with the Canucks?...because Scatchard's doing pretty good here!

Peter Griffin 11-17-2003 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPeca
How's Potvin doing with the Canucks?...because Scatchard's doing pretty good here!

I'll give you that one, but personally I'd rather have Daniel Sedin(acquired for McCabe) and Bertuzzi then Scatchard... ;)

LaVal 11-17-2003 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPeca
How's Potvin doing with the Canucks?...because Scatchard's doing pretty good here!

we like to call him future considerations around here :D

Mr. Canucklehead 11-17-2003 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaVal575
we like to call him future considerations around here :D

That would be Lukas Mensator, now. :D

~Canucklehead~

Darth Milbury 11-17-2003 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaVal575
we like to call him future considerations around here :D


Around here, we like to refer to Bertuzzi as "wavier wire loss."

BTW, don't forget the other component of the Scatch deal - Kevin Weekes. He got turned into Raffi Torres and then into Janne N.

Jones23 11-17-2003 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Around here, we like to refer to Bertuzzi as "wavier wire loss."

BTW, don't forget the other component of the Scatch deal - Kevin Weekes. He got turned into Raffi Torres and then into Janne N.

...and Muckalt was turned into Yashin! :p

cyrisweb 11-17-2003 06:42 PM

If the Canucks are goin to trade with NY then I'd like to see them pick up Peca.

Arvedson-Peca-Linden
Keane/May-Chubarov-Cooke

:rolly:

ehc73 11-17-2003 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrisweb
If the Canucks are goin to trade with NY then I'd like to see them pick up Peca.

Arvedson-Peca-Linden
Keane/May-Chubarov-Cooke

:rolly:

Talk about your pipe dreams. :)
But would definitely like to see Peca back in a Vancouver uni. Won't happen though.

Mr. Canucklehead 11-17-2003 08:43 PM

Peca would simply be amazing back in Vancouver. Imagine a two-way shutdown line of Cooke-Peca-Linden...*drools*

As it stands though, the Isles and Canucks don't make very good trading partners. I wouldn't mind going for Cairns seeing as we need an enforcer(IMO), but other than that, not a whole lot can be done.

~Canucklehead~


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