HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Montreal Canadiens (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Kostitsyn:Did he play well enough? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=294672)

Drive425 09-29-2006 05:24 PM

Kostitsyn:Did he play well enough?
 
I think Kostitsyn had a very good training camp from what I saw. I believe he should've got at least a 10 game tryout with the big club. Lats had a great camp aswell but I think the Habs are hurting Kostitsyn's development by sending him back down. :dunno:

What do you think?

Habitant#1 09-29-2006 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drive425 (Post 6611596)
I think Kostitsyn had a very good training camp from what I saw. I believe he should've got at least a 10 game tryout with the big club. Lats had a great camp aswell but I think the Habs are hurting Kostitsyn's development by sending him back down. :dunno:

What do you think?

Yeah but it might speed up grabovski's development! :clap:

Habs13 09-29-2006 05:28 PM

Andrei will be back up as soon as an injury happens.

turnbuckle* 09-29-2006 05:34 PM

He played well enough to make the team in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005...but not 2006, mainly due to the number's game. This means the team's getting better; a good thing. Hell; in the "Houle era" he'd be first or second-line material. Imagine the 2006 Kosty competing against the Witehalls and Delisles lol.



It won't last for long tho. I predict that Andrei will see at least 40 games of action with the Habs this season; I wouldn't fret over it.

Guy Caballero 09-29-2006 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drive425 (Post 6611596)
I think Kostitsyn had a very good training camp from what I saw. I believe he should've got at least a 10 game tryout with the big club. Lats had a great camp aswell but I think the Habs are hurting Kostitsyn's development by sending him back down. :dunno:

What do you think?

It's a little trickier than that. Kostitsyn can pass up and down the ranks freely. Everyone else needs to go through waivers. That no doubt plays a big part in their decision to send him down (if that's what they decide). The 10-game thing applies only to Latendresse, since he could go back to juniors after this period.

Redux91 09-29-2006 05:41 PM

He played fine, hed of had the spot if gui was simply just not there or able to get sent down to the AHL

Andrei can, so thats why

tinyzombies 09-29-2006 05:43 PM

No, he's not quick enough for the NHL. May never be. He has to work on that. If you're going to lack quickness, you have to at least be physical and go hard in traffic and on the boards and to the net, and he doesn't do that.

Slew Foots 09-29-2006 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves (Post 6611724)
No, he's not quick enough for the NHL. May never be. He has to work on that. If you're going to lack quickness, you have to at least be physical and go hard in traffic and on the boards and to the net, and he doesn't do that.

Are you talking about Kostitsyn? Seems like you're describing somebody else...cuz the Kostitsyn I know, although not as fast as Perezhogin, still has more than decent speed...he's not as physical as Latendresse, but he's still pretty strong and was going hard in traffic this preseason. Your assessment of Kosty's abilities are way off.

Ross MacLochness 09-29-2006 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves (Post 6611724)
No, he's not quick enough for the NHL. May never be.


Who the heck are you talking about?

znk 09-29-2006 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves (Post 6611724)
No, he's not quick enough for the NHL. May never be. He has to work on that. If you're going to lack quickness, you have to at least be physical and go hard in traffic and on the boards and to the net, and he doesn't do that.

Not quick enough ? Once in a while a post has me scratching my head..... Are you sure you're you know who A. Kostitsyn is? He's got great speed...but uses it kinda like Kovalev. You've seen his speed in the Grabovski hilight videos. But dont take my word for it.

http://hockeysfuture.com/prospect/andrei_kostsitsyn
Quote:

Talent Analysis

Kostsitsyn is an excellent puck-handler, with above-average speed. What sets him apart from other players is his ability to handle the puck at top speed...

beowulf 09-29-2006 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves (Post 6611724)
No, he's not quick enough for the NHL. May never be. He has to work on that. If you're going to lack quickness, you have to at least be physical and go hard in traffic and on the boards and to the net, and he doesn't do that.

If he is not quick enough how the hell did Latendresse make it?

HappyPappy 09-29-2006 06:12 PM

Remember how last year we had too many guys with Bonk, Hossa and Latendresse doing well in pre-season. Hossa was traded, Bonk disappeared and Latendresse was sent down. This year we actually have a guy we can call up who can play on the first three lines. Injuries happen, he'll play soon enough.

tinyzombies 09-29-2006 06:16 PM

Speed does not equal quickness or urgency. Just ask Ron Hainsey. The new NHL is built for quickness and size, not speed alone. The offensive zone is so big now that if you are quick and able to work a short-passing game and have some size to carve out space, you are in good shape.

Souray is probably the fastest skater on this team, but he has very little quickness and acceleration.

This is one of Kostitsyn's problems.

His other problem is that we have too many players like him already and we need a guy like Latendresse to bring the physicality, crash the net and boards and still make plays.

Our top 6 are not "soft" but they sure don't create space for themselves in the "jam" areas, and therefore they are one dimensional, even with all their physical attributes.

Also, the fact that we only have one defenseman who can dynamically move the puck (if his other chores are lessened) means we need to make the most of our chances when we do get the puck in the other end, because we are not a threat on the rush even with all our speed and skill, that's for sure.

I think Kosty could play in the NHL in the right situation right now, but he's not the type of player we need right now, unless someone goes down, then he can fill in. He's not going to do anything unless he's with Koivu though. Koivu is the only guy who can make him work in the NHL at this point imo. All he has that is elite is his shot (range of releases, strength of his shot). I doubt he is able to set up his own shot at the NHL level. He can't even do it at the AHL yet.

All that said, I bet we'll see him in the NHL at some point this year.

If it were up to me, I'd put a couple of these midgets together and ship them off for a defenseman who can make a play or a tough top 6 guy. I do not like the direction this team has taken. I'll give Gainey the benefit of the doubt, but I think we could be more competitive than this. But there are a million ways to get to the promised land.

Phil Parent 09-29-2006 06:38 PM

I think Perezhogin will not finish the year in Montreal and Kostitsyn will be back as soon as he's gone.

Habsfan18 09-29-2006 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs13 (Post 6611620)
Andrei will be back up as soon as an injury happens.

yep.

Dr_Hook 09-29-2006 06:46 PM

I kindda agree with raketheleaves here; Kostitsyn has good top end speed when he's already in motion; but I too was disenchanted with his lack of explosiveness out of the blocks, and overall lack of quickness. He's smooth and fluid, but not quick that's for sure. If he ever improves that, he will become an absolute threat but until then, he'd be easy to defend against at the NHL level.

Qui Gon Dave 09-29-2006 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves (Post 6611724)
No, he's not quick enough for the NHL. May never be. He has to work on that. If you're going to lack quickness, you have to at least be physical and go hard in traffic and on the boards and to the net, and he doesn't do that.

Good description of Corey Locke. This is a thread about Andrei Kostitsyn though. Try again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
The offensive zone is so big now that if you are quick and able to work a short-passing game and have some size to carve out space, you are in good shape.

Kost has decent speed, has good passing abilities and knows where to go to score a goal. As proven on his first NHL goal against the Coyotes last year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
His other problem is that we have too many players like him already and we need a guy like Latendresse to bring the physicality, crash the net and boards and still make plays.

As mentioned above, Kost can go to the front of the net and stay there. Not as well as Lats but he can do it nonetheless. He can also work in the corners and he is capable of making plays, for example, like that assist last night where he made the play from the corner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
All he has that is elite is his shot (range of releases, strength of his shot). I doubt he is able to set up his own shot at the NHL level. He can't even do it at the AHL yet.

All he has is his shot. And his above average speed. And his stickhandling. And passing. And he can take and throw a hit better than several of guys currently on the Habs roster. Not all these abilities are elite, but they are hardly redundant. As for setting up his own shot in the AHL, he does okay there too. But then when he tries to make the play on his own people accuse him of being selfish with the puck and not a team player. And then when he tries to set up a teammate on, lets say last years stellar Hamilton Bulldogs, its because he doesn't have the ability to set up his own shot in the AHL, let alone the NHL.

Dr_Hook - you are absolutely right, at the moment he is incredibly easy to defend against in the NHL. Helps if he gets a reasonable chance there to say for sure though, doesn't it. Of course, if he played more than a handful of games where he received over 5 minutes in ice time then we might know.

Shabutie 09-29-2006 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Parent (Post 6612262)
I think Perezhogin will not finish the year in Montreal and Kostitsyn will be back as soon as he's gone.

Imo Perezhogin doesn't make it past december... If you think about our current lines...Where is Latendresse? I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't start on the 4th line, and that Murray does. We'd be left with;

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Samsonov - Ribs - Kovalev
Lats - Pleks - Johnson
Begin - Bonk - Murray

Imo, Lats + Perez will never be on the team at the same time. Murray brings something that neither of them can (not just physicality, but grit + speed, along with good defensive play, the ability to shot block and the ability to play the PK). You can't have too many flashy forward without at least having 1 line that doesn't have any defensive holes in it. I'll be surprised if Perez makes it past December...That's just me.

RE-HABS 09-29-2006 07:08 PM

1 of 3 things are gonna happen with Kostitsyn;

(1) Gainey told him that he was going down, but expect to be recalled very quickly because he was going to try to make a roster move via trade.

(2) Latendresse will get his 10 game audition. If the Habs feel he isn't ready they send him to the "Q" so they can retain that 7 year commitment.

(3) He has to wait for someone to play themselves off the team or an injury.

I have a feeling it will be #1, we have youth depth to trade and the name being mentioned all the time is Perezhogin. I would not be surprised to see a move of Perezhogin or even Ribs (maybe both) to make room and to add another body. If your Gainey and you want someone that has some more speed to play with Sammy and Kovy maybe you make an offer like Ribs and Perezhogin to Vancouver for Morrison? From what I have read Morrison seems to be a tradeable player with the Nucks needing to free some cap space for deadline trades if needed. Ribs and Perezhogin in the West (plus Ribs and Perez don't haunt you in the East) would benefit their game and give them a fresh new start, Morrison would give us a good 2nd Centre after Saku and a good 2way player. Just a suggestion, I know I would like to see a Samsonov-Morrison-Kovalev line.

:)

goalchenyuk 09-29-2006 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves (Post 6612002)
Speed does not equal quickness or urgency. Just ask Ron Hainsey. The new NHL is built for quickness and size, not speed alone. The offensive zone is so big now that if you are quick and able to work a short-passing game and have some size to carve out space, you are in good shape.

Souray is probably the fastest skater on this team, but he has very little quickness and acceleration.

This is one of Kostitsyn's problems.

His other problem is that we have too many players like him already and we need a guy like Latendresse to bring the physicality, crash the net and boards and still make plays.

Our top 6 are not "soft" but they sure don't create space for themselves in the "jam" areas, and therefore they are one dimensional, even with all their physical attributes.

Also, the fact that we only have one defenseman who can dynamically move the puck (if his other chores are lessened) means we need to make the most of our chances when we do get the puck in the other end, because we are not a threat on the rush even with all our speed and skill, that's for sure.

I think Kosty could play in the NHL in the right situation right now, but he's not the type of player we need right now, unless someone goes down, then he can fill in. He's not going to do anything unless he's with Koivu though. Koivu is the only guy who can make him work in the NHL at this point imo. All he has that is elite is his shot (range of releases, strength of his shot). I doubt he is able to set up his own shot at the NHL level. He can't even do it at the AHL yet.

:huh: me think that you :groucho: ,are far to have a good analyse of our players ...

May be you mixed the name of the Habs players with the ones of the Expos de Montreal ? The Allouettes may be ?

i like the " He's not going to do anything unless he's with Koivu though. Koivu is the only guy who can make him work in the NHL at this point imo. " ; :biglaugh:

Shabutie 09-29-2006 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RE-HABS (Post 6612547)
1 of 3 things are gonna happen with Kostitsyn;

(1) Gainey told him that he was going dow, but expect to be recalled very quickly because he was going to try to make a roster move via trade.

(2) Latendresse will get his 10 game audition. if the Habs feel he isn't ready they send him to the "Q" so they can retain that 7 year commitment.

(3) He has to wait for someone to play themselves off the team or an injury.

I have a feeling it will be #1, we have youth depth to trade and the name being mentioned all the time is Perezhogin. I would not be surprised to see a move of Perezhogin or even Ribs (maybe both) to make room and to add another body. If your Gainey and you want someone that has some more speed to play with Sammy and Kovy maybe you make an offer like Ribs and Perezhogin to Vancouver for Morrison? From what I have read Morrison seems to be a tradeable player with the Nucks needing to free some cap space for deadline trades if needed. Ribs and Perezhogin in the West would benefit their game and give them a fresh new start, Morrison would give us a good 2nd Centre after Saku and a good 2way player. Just a suggestion, I know I would like to see a Samsonov-Morrison-Kovalev line.

:)

Carbo has said that if Latendresse was signed, he would not see another day in Drummondville. Carbs is an honest man and even if Lats were to score a goal in his net per game the first 10 games, I don't see him doing it.

RC51 09-29-2006 07:12 PM

I dont know for a fact that Kost is slow at the start, I do know he is fast at top speed but all this speed thing realy means nothing at all if like most forwards you dont have the talent to completly control that puck while your at top speed ( see Bulis)
Kost can control the puck and continue to control the puck even if he tries a deak or two ( dont see Bulis )

Latandresse protects the puck on the way to the goal ( uses his size very well) Kost must deak to get to the front of the net but Kost does have the moves to do it.

Thats why both are very good prospects.
Habs need size NOW, Carbo is correct but dont sell Kost short, he will be back.

Bill McNeal 09-29-2006 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Parent (Post 6612262)
I think Perezhogin will not finish the year in Montreal and Kostitsyn will be back as soon as he's gone.

Agreed. Last year that would have torn me up, but the Habs right now have an excess of capable forwards and Perezhogin IMO has become expendable. I hope Gainey can package him with something appealing for a top 4 D.

As for Kost, he'll definitely play this year and most likely make it difficult for the team to send him back down again.

Teufelsdreck 09-29-2006 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 6612543)
Imo Perezhogin doesn't make it past december... If you think about our current lines...Where is Latendresse? I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't start on the 4th line, and that Murray does. We'd be left with;

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Samsonov - Ribs - Kovalev
Lats - Pleks - Johnson
Begin - Bonk - Murray

Imo, Lats + Perez will never be on the team at the same time. Murray brings something that neither of them can (not just physicality, but grit + speed, along with good defensive play, the ability to shot block and the ability to play the PK). You can't have too many flashy forward without at least having 1 line that doesn't have any defensive holes in it. I'll be surprised if Perez makes it past December...That's just me.

If Perezhogin is still with the Habs in January, will you remind us that you said he wouldn't be or should we remind you?

tinyzombies 09-29-2006 07:45 PM

We are definitely seeing different things.

I knew Latendresse was going to make this team when I saw those early video clips of his vastly improved acceleration in practice drills. That is why he is in the NHL today (congrats Gui! :handclap: ).

Kostitsyn looks like he's gotten a bit bigger, but I don't see the likewise improvement in acceleration. Why not?

Perezhogin tried to put on weight, and I think he's still adjusting. I thought Julien messed him up last year. Hopefully he gets a full chance this year.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:11 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.