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-   -   Penguins could send down MA Fleury (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=29599)

Mack 11-19-2003 10:47 PM

Penguins could send down MA Fleury
 
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=61165


This better just be a ploy by CP to get more fans into the aren, if he is going to send down Fleury just becuase he's going to reach his insentives, which would put him over $5 million this season, would be a joke. This franchise has been pretty much throwing away its best players for money and subpar nhl talent. This team needs an owner who will put money into. We all know Mario has money but probibly not as much as a person who owns a company. Its getting really bad if they send down thier MVP just because he's doing good....

Wingboy2999 11-19-2003 10:53 PM

Well, he hasn't been doing so well lately. Got pulled tonight. They would save a lot of money but how much will they lose because Fluery draws a lot.

Ziggy Stardust 11-19-2003 11:08 PM

Maybe we should bring back my 'Pathetic Penguins' thread?
;)

Oh here it is, mwahaha.
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=26618

Maybe I shouldn't have... ah well. But I think it's evident that they are screwing around with the poor kid. They should have sent him down before he reached ten games, and now today, after facing 9 shots (and stopping 6 of those 9), he gets yanked.

I even wonder why Olczyk who has had no history coaching at any level was hired. A friend of Mario's? A cheaper alternative?
Ah well... I can sense that I'm going to piss off a bunch of Pens fans again, so maybe I should quit while I'm ahead, heh.

PecaFan 11-20-2003 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Maybe I shouldn't have... ah well. But I think it's evident that they are screwing around with the poor kid. They should have sent him down before he reached ten games, and now today, after facing 9 shots (and stopping 6 of those 9), he gets yanked.

But then they'd be facing the same problem *next year*, having to pay a kid 4 million.

This way, by playing him more than 10, but less than 25 games, they can pay Fleury his base salary only. I think they've been planning this all along.

Evilo 11-20-2003 06:09 AM

No they haven't. It's only based on his play IMO.
He was good, they kept him.
He's not as good, they send him down.

Logical to me.
I've always been against sending a guy down when he outplays the vets.
I've always been for sending down a guy that doesn't produce.
Caron is outplaying him big time these days.

Frenzy1 11-20-2003 06:21 AM

They needed to send him down. All of the expectation at 18 can be kind of destructive to a young goalie. He was a good draw for the Pens but isn't ready for full time duty. For goalies, it is not just the physical end of the game that is tough, but the mental part also.

The Pens need to look at the Islander mishandling of DiPeitro at the beginning of his carear for the "HOW NOT TO" develop a young goalie.

This will always be a problem for teams w/ low budgets or in "rebuilding" modes. The question is how soon do you bring the kids up? You can have a team of marginal NHLers who will have a losing record and draw little to no interest from fans or start the kids and use them to hype the team.

IMO, very few 18 and 19 yr. olds are ready for the GRINDing season that is the NHL regular season, and I am not talking just physically here. Playing someone 12 min per game doesn't really help them develop when they would be getting more icetime against younger competition, where mistakes don't cost the team the game. \

Too much pressure at a young age.

fan mao rong 11-20-2003 09:07 AM

Been seeing most of Pittsburgh games lately and Fleury has not been as focused or effective recently, so the objective view to me is that he might shortly have to go to a lower level and regroup. Money should not be a factor.

Vlad The Impaler 11-20-2003 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilo
It's only based on his play IMO.
He was good, they kept him.
He's not as good, they send him down.

Logical to me.
I've always been against sending a guy down when he outplays the vets.
I've always been for sending down a guy that doesn't produce.
Caron is outplaying him big time these days.

I completely agree with everything you just said.

I nearly threw up however when I learned that Fleury could soon reach bonus allowing him to make $5M, despite sucking up big ones. That's just obscene and needs to be fixed in the next CBA.

Even if Fleury was doing good, it simply wouldn't be enough to justify that kind of money. To make that kind of cash he needs to be dominant and carry the team on his back or it just doesn't make sense.

Big McLargehuge 11-20-2003 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilo
No they haven't. It's only based on his play IMO.
He was good, they kept him.
He's not as good, they send him down.

Logical to me.
I've always been against sending a guy down when he outplays the vets.
I've always been for sending down a guy that doesn't produce.
Caron is outplaying him big time these days.

100% correct

The Penguins wouldn't be losing much on the ice, if anything, by having J-S Aubin in Pittsburgh in place of Fleury right now. Fleury is looking unfocused and just overall isn't doing that great.

Give him a couple/few games to see if he can regroup and if he doesn't send him back to Cape Breton.

I was furiously against sending him down before the 10 game mark because he was playing great and didn't deserve to be sent down, but right now he's playing mediocre at best and should be sent down.

Buffaloed 11-20-2003 11:37 AM

The Pens are fortunate to be in a situation where they can send the guy down rather than having to trade him for a token return to unload the contract.

I support CP's stance. If Pens fans want to keep Fleury up they should buy tickets. If the Pens go back into bankruptcy they're done as a franchise in Pittsburgh. If revenues won't support the payroll, they're going back into bankruptcy. They have to hang on a little longer and hope a new CBA will make it possible for them to be competitive and profitable. Then they can make a case for a new arena.

I think Fleury has made a strong enough case from a playing standpoint to be kept up, but the overriding concern is survival of the franchise. All goalies have a few bad games, and they don't get sent down. If the Pens can't afford the contract, the only choice is to send him down.

tom_servo 11-20-2003 11:44 AM

Caron is outplaying him "big time?" What are you basing that on... his first win of the season? I mean, he was frickin' due to stop a puck sooner or later. In seven appearances, he had two games with save percentages over .875, and one in his last four.

Plan 9 11-20-2003 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom_servo
Caron is outplaying him "big time?" What are you basing that on... his first win of the season? I mean, he was frickin' due to stop a puck sooner or later. In seven appearances, he had two games with save percentages over .875, and one in his last four.

Exactly. Caron has not been that great at all.

gb701 11-20-2003 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I completely agree with everything you just said.

I nearly threw up however when I learned that Fleury could soon reach bonus allowing him to make $5M, despite sucking up big ones. That's just obscene and needs to be fixed in the next CBA.

Even if Fleury was doing good, it simply wouldn't be enough to justify that kind of money. To make that kind of cash he needs to be dominant and carry the team on his back or it just doesn't make sense.

My only disagreement is that the CBA is a copout for the owners who agree to these incentives in the first place. That is another debate, but imho if Fleury was able to get $5 m based on the limited performance to date, the team needs new management with a brain. I would have thought for a rookie to get those sorts of numbers, the incentives would be season long and substantial.

Big McLargehuge 11-20-2003 03:04 PM

Don't blame Pens management, blame every first overall rookie contract since Joe Thornton.

This is more Boston's fault than Pittsburgh's.

The Penguins did relatively good with Fleury's contract considering it's a carbon copy of what DiPietro received.

Ziggy Stardust 11-20-2003 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantompenguin
Don't blame Pens management, blame every first overall rookie contract since Joe Thornton.

This is more Boston's fault than Pittsburgh's.

The Penguins did relatively good with Fleury's contract considering it's a carbon copy of what DiPietro received.

The problem with Fleury's deal is the ease of the incentives which can be reached. If they left him on the pro team, he could easily reach the incentives in his deal. If they sent him back to juniors before the 10 game mark, it wouldn't have cost them the $1M plus that he is now guaranteed.
Also, because they kept him past 10 games, a year is removed from waiver protection, meaning that he will have to be protected in a waiver draft or he has to clear waivers if he is demoted, so he is eligible to be protected now as this will count as a season played on the contract.

His agent got what he wanted, which was a lucrative contract with incentives that are easily attainable before the CBA expired.
The Pens also got a bit of a boost in ticket sales with their home game sellout and debut of Marc-Andre Fleury.

Big McLargehuge 11-20-2003 06:20 PM

Blame the insentives on Thornton's contract again.

As I said earlier, the contract is the exact same as DiPietro's was, insentives and all.

Evilo 11-20-2003 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom_servo
Caron is outplaying him "big time?" What are you basing that on... his first win of the season? I mean, he was frickin' due to stop a puck sooner or later. In seven appearances, he had two games with save percentages over .875, and one in his last four.

I said "these days".
I maintain it.
If you substract Tampa Bay's night (can you honestly say it was Caron's fault), he hasn't been that bad.
And recently, I found him good. Better than Fleury with the exact same team in front of him playing exaclty as bad.

Frenzy1 11-21-2003 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantompenguin
Blame the insentives on Thornton's contract again.

There is a huge difference between a goalie and a forward. Shoot, it took Joe T a year to get used to the game. Fluery is behind a AHL defense and is getting peppered. This is not good for a youngster's confidence (See Dipietro and what has happened to him).

Pitts. may win 1-5 games this year because of Fluery, but it may set is development back a lot. 1-5 games wont make any difference this year, they still wont make the playoffs and will get a lottery pick in next years draft. (Sorry, they are just not a very good team).

SabresRule 11-21-2003 08:24 AM

i think he should be sent down, the kid's confidence must be taking a knock, night after night, facing a barrage of shots and losing, mentally and pyshically this KID should be sent down.

his not even 19 yet. dont forget.


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