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-   -   Isles-Chi Hawks deal may be close (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=29693)

Darth Milbury 11-20-2003 09:05 AM

Isles-Chi Hawks deal may be close
 
Not only was Bob Pulford at the game last night, but Cats color guy Denis Potvin commented that he had not been able to get a hold of his friend Kenny Morrow (who is now an Islander scout) for days, because Morrow had been following the Chi Hawks.

I have not idea what will be involved, but I would say that there is a good possibility that both Parrish and Cairns are Black Hawks shortly after the Isles return from their road trip.

I think there is an outside chance that the deal is expanded to include an Islander dman (probably Hamrlik). I don't think that is likely, but certainly possible.

The interesting issue here is that the Isles are not looking to add salary or older players and Chicago doesn't seem to want to trade inexpensive youngsters. From that perspective, the teams don't seem well matched.

Thoughts?

PuckU 11-20-2003 09:10 AM

I think with a package of Parrish and Hamerlik the islander could get some fine, talented youth. Maybe, just maybe, they can get someone who can consistently put the biscuit in the basket.

Darth Milbury 11-20-2003 09:21 AM

Personally, I think the deal is likely to be smaller. Parrish and Cairns for a lessor prospect and a pick. But, we'll see.

My dream deal would have us getting Bell for Parrish, but I don't think that is likely.

Flames Draft Watcher 11-20-2003 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury

The interesting issue here is that the Isles are not looking to add salary or older players and Chicago doesn't seem to want to trade inexpensive youngsters. From that perspective, the teams don't seem well matched.

Thoughts?

I think there might be a young player or two that Smith and the old scouting staff was really high on that Sutter isn't as sold on. So there's a chance the Hawks might part with a youngster or two IMO. Does anyone know if Sutter hasn't been impressed with Yakubov or Vorobiev or guys like that?

Beukeboom Fan 11-20-2003 09:25 AM

Quick prayer before I post:

"God, please protect us Hawk fans from the forces of darkness - Hawks management, and guide us in our search for hope for the future, AMEN."

I agree with Darth. After going into this season with the least amount of talent in NHL - why is Hawk mgmt surprised we're bad? I just can't imagine any person whose been around hockey AT ALL thinking that Parrish + Cairns can turn this teams fortune's around. Especially after trading Klemm for Robidas to really just save $'s?

It just makes ZERO sense, unless the Isles are including one of their upper tier d-men. But that makes ZERO sense as from their POV, because as heavily as those guys are played, and with the lack of a good prospect ready to step into the role, I think the Isles would severely impact their chances of making the P/O's.

From the Hawks POV, making a move without getting a top flight d-man is just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMO. Especially if they are giving up a highly thought of prospect.

Darth Milbury 11-20-2003 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Quick prayer before I post:

"God, please protect us Hawk fans from the forces of darkness - Hawks management, and guide us in our search for hope for the future, AMEN."

I agree with Darth. After going into this season with the least amount of talent in NHL - why is Hawk mgmt surprised we're bad? I just can't imagine any person whose been around hockey AT ALL thinking that Parrish + Cairns can turn this teams fortune's around. Especially after trading Klemm for Robidas to really just save $'s?

It just makes ZERO sense, unless the Isles are including one of their upper tier d-men. But that makes ZERO sense as from their POV, because as heavily as those guys are played, and with the lack of a good prospect ready to step into the role, I think the Isles would severely impact their chances of making the P/O's.

From the Hawks POV, making a move without getting a top flight d-man is just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMO. Especially if they are giving up a highly thought of prospect.

The Hawks remind me of the Isles a few years back, before the draft day debacles that saw the trade of Brewer, Luongo, et al. Chicago has a slew of young forwards. They just need to let those players develop. I think a trade now for support players like Parrish and Cairns is only going to be counter productive down the road.

Disgraced Cosmonaut 11-20-2003 09:39 AM

I would suggest that we (Isles) may want to start restocking the defense in our system given the ages of our excellent top four and how free agency will affect us. Seabrook or someone like him may be the target. It will help us reduce payroll for now, regardless of who we send packing. If it's a package involving Parri (and I hope it's not) and a d-man then Bell and Seabrook or something similar (depending on what d-man is shipped out) would be a possible return.

I don't like Bell as much as many here. I would rather have Parri 5 of 7 days because he's durable and pays the price to get in front of the net. Bell's got some nice sides (i.e. size) but I trust Mark to step it up if he's playing on the right line. And there's no denying his 4 years of solid production.

I agree that the teams make less than ideal trading partners- unless MM fleeces Pulford. Of course, MM getting fleeced is just as possible.

CREW99AW 11-20-2003 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckU
I think with a package of Parrish and Hamerlik the islander could get some fine, talented youth. Maybe, just maybe, they can get someone who can consistently put the biscuit in the basket.



I'd rather keep Hamrlik and let the Hawks keep their fine,talented youth.

None of the young,cheap Hawks consistently puts the biscuit in the basket enough to be worth losing Hamrlik.

23 yr old Bell averages 12-14 goals a yr.
24 yr old Arnason scores between 16-19 goals a yr.
24 yr old Calder's averaged 15-17 gaols a yr,although his 6 goals this yr have him on pace for a career high 24 goals.

Darth Milbury 11-20-2003 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'd rather keep Hamrlik and let the Hawks keep their fine,talented youth.

None of the young,cheap Hawks consistently puts the biscuit in the basket enough to be worth losing Hamrlik.

23 yr old Bell averages 12-14 goals a yr.
24 yr old Arnason scores between 16-19 goals a yr.
24 yr old Calder's averaged 15-17 gaols a yr,although his 6 goals this yr have him on pace for a career high 24 goals.


I agree completely, Crew. Unfortunately, I think something is going to happen though.

Disgraced Cosmonaut 11-20-2003 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'd rather keep Hamrlik and let the Hawks keep their fine,talented youth.

None of the young,cheap Hawks consistently puts the biscuit in the basket enough to be worth losing Hamrlik.

23 yr old Bell averages 12-14 goals a yr.
24 yr old Arnason scores between 16-19 goals a yr.
24 yr old Calder's averaged 15-17 gaols a yr,although his 6 goals this yr have him on pace for a career high 24 goals.

I'm definitely with you on this.

PuckU 11-20-2003 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disgraced Cosmonaut
I'm definitely with you on this.


I am not infavor either, unless Mad Mike knows that the islander are not going to be able to compete in the bidding war for Hamerlik at the end of the year.

fabs 11-20-2003 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Not only was Bob Pulford at the game last night, but Cats color guy Denis Potvin commented that he had not been able to get a hold of his friend Kenny Morrow (who is now an Islander scout) for days, because Morrow had been following the Chi Hawks.

I have not idea what will be involved, but I would say that there is a good possibility that both Parrish and Cairns are Black Hawks shortly after the Isles return from their road trip.

I think there is an outside chance that the deal is expanded to include an Islander dman (probably Hamrlik). I don't think that is likely, but certainly possible.

The interesting issue here is that the Isles are not looking to add salary or older players and Chicago doesn't seem to want to trade inexpensive youngsters. From that perspective, the teams don't seem well matched.

Thoughts?

do u listen to anything milbury says

Pure Slaughter Value 11-20-2003 10:41 AM

do u listen to anything milbury says

Nope, no reason to. He constantly contradicts himself.

Darth Milbury 11-20-2003 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabs
do u listen to anything milbury says

HIS SATANTIC MAJESTY said there would be no moves until after the road trip. HE did not say there would be no moves at all. I predict that the EVIL ONE will honor his word, and not pull the trigger for another week or two.

RoyIsALegend* 11-20-2003 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'd rather keep Hamrlik and let the Hawks keep their fine,talented youth.

None of the young,cheap Hawks consistently puts the biscuit in the basket enough to be worth losing Hamrlik.

23 yr old Bell averages 12-14 goals a yr.
24 yr old Arnason scores between 16-19 goals a yr.
24 yr old Calder's averaged 15-17 gaols a yr,although his 6 goals this yr have him on pace for a career high 24 goals.

I really think you overrate the value of Roman Hamrlik.

If you're saying the Islanders are better off keeping Hammer right now than one of those three, then you're absolutely right. If you take into account that Hamrlik is an RFA with arbitration rights at the end of the season, the Islanders already having #1, #2 and #3 defensemen without Hammer *and* that all three of those young, inept Blackhawks you mention will be solid second line forwards, then I can't see why that is so far off.

Hamrlik is easily the best player involved, but until this "guaranteed" extension he has gets signed(and you were the one who guaranteed it), then his value remains lower.

Kyle Calder or Mark Bell and a 2nd round pick for Hamrlik is not far off.

Ajacied 11-20-2003 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Kyle Calder or Mark Bell and a 2nd round pick for Hamrlik is not far off.

I actually see that as a rather generous offer.. 2 young top 6 forwards and a pick in the #31/40 range for a defenseman nearing his 30's and UFA status, that and I don't see how Hamrlik would be in their planns, probably not financially either.

Big Bill 11-20-2003 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
I actually see that as a rather generous offer.. 2 young top 6 forwards and a pick in the #31/40 range for a defenseman nearing his 30's and UFA status, that and I don't see how Hamrlik would be in their planns, probably not financially either.


I think he meant Calder OR BEll and a pick. I agree two is overpaying

VaporXX 11-20-2003 11:18 AM

What about Jonson instead of Hammer? I get the impression Sterling is not as high on KJ as everyone else, and with good reason. I believe he is BY FAR the weakest of the Isles Top 4.

I'm also thinking from an Isles point of view that if a trade goes down it's going to involve more than one deal. On a selfish note I'd like to see anyone of the following go:

Peca
Snow
Jonsson
Cairns
Parrish


And I'd love to see the Isles acquire any on of the following:
Calder, Bell, Arnason, Seabrook or Thibault
or Gauthier for Calgary

Darth Milbury 11-20-2003 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I really think you overrate the value of Roman Hamrlik.

If you're saying the Islanders are better off keeping Hammer right now than one of those three, then you're absolutely right. If you take into account that Hamrlik is an RFA with arbitration rights at the end of the season, the Islanders already having #1, #2 and #3 defensemen without Hammer *and* that all three of those young, inept Blackhawks you mention will be solid second line forwards, then I can't see why that is so far off.

Hamrlik is easily the best player involved, but until this "guaranteed" extension he has gets signed(and you were the one who guaranteed it), then his value remains lower.

Kyle Calder or Mark Bell and a 2nd round pick for Hamrlik is not far off.

You've made this argument before. I thought you were wrong then and I think you are wrong now.

Bell and Calder both have trade value, but neither has value close to that. I disagree that it is not far off. IMO, it is way off.

The Hawks aren't going to get Hamrlik at the price, contract or no contract. For that sort of return, the Isles would be better off holding on to Hamrlik. He'll mean more to the team's playoff chances over the next two years that Bell or Calder ever would.

To put this in perspective, would you trade Adam Foote for that package? Foote is older than Hamrlik, and makes more. AVs have his rights for only one more year than the Isles have Hamrlik's rights.

So, lets do it. Foote for Bell....

officeglen 11-20-2003 11:32 AM

This is one hard trade to guess. I believe the Hawks did the Klemm/Robidas deal to get some $ below the budget line (the soft cap now in effect - likewise Dallas moves Manny after acquiring Klemm's contract). As it seems as if the Isles want to bring their costs down, so I think Parrish needs to move for somebody cheaper. So one could guess Parrish for somebody younger and cheaper, except why would the Hawks want to move one of their young core? Anyways Mad Mike and Pulford have always puzzled me, so this is likely wrong, but I'll guess Parrish for Radulov.

Doc_M 11-20-2003 12:00 PM

You can see Hamrlik leaving before trade deadline but to a contender, not to Chi.

I think the idea that Pulford/Sutter want to move a young player that only Smith liked is the best bet. I don't see a blockbuster between these 2 teams

Sammy* 11-20-2003 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
To put this in perspective, would you trade Adam Foote for that package? Foote is older than Hamrlik, and makes more. AVs have his rights for only one more year than the Isles have Hamrlik's rights.

So, lets do it. Foote for Bell....

Very good analogy but for some reason which I cannot put my finger on, my gut tells me the situations are not analagous. Maybe because the Avs are much closer to the Cup than the Isles , but I dunno.

RoyIsALegend* 11-20-2003 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
To put this in perspective, would you trade Adam Foote for that package? Foote is older than Hamrlik, and makes more. AVs have his rights for only one more year than the Isles have Hamrlik's rights.

So, lets do it. Foote for Bell....

Wrong altogether.

Adam Foote is worlds better than Roman Hamrlik, and you are also forgetting the 2nd rounder.

Disgraced Cosmonaut 11-20-2003 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaporXX
What about Jonson instead of Hammer? I get the impression Sterling is not as high on KJ as everyone else, and with good reason. I believe he is BY FAR the weakest of the Isles Top 4.

I'm also thinking from an Isles point of view that if a trade goes down it's going to involve more than one deal. On a selfish note I'd like to see anyone of the following go:

Peca
Snow
Jonsson
Cairns
Parrish


And I'd love to see the Isles acquire any on of the following:
Calder, Bell, Arnason, Seabrook or Thibault
or Gauthier for Calgary

No. That's really the best place to start to respond to the first part of your post. MM consistently has called KJ the best defensemen on the Isles (one night recently even saying "by head and shoulders"). I don't get the feeling that Stirling dislikes him. If he did, it would mean zip-zero to those that matter. Stirling has NO sway over personnel, as an NHL infant coach. MM put him in there to coach, and that's it. He's a company guy, not Mike Keenan. (As an afterthought, almost every game I've been to this year, KJ's been named a star of the game.) Saying he's the weakest, when even those among the other three acknowledge he's the best (Oakie said last year he the best defensemen he's ever played with and playign with him has helped his (Oakie's) game grow), must really just be your dislike for him. I can kind of understand disliking him if your worried abotu his concussion problems resurfacing. But tell me you think any of the other three are better positionally (the most important aspect of defensive zone play) or one on one and we'll start a new thread to debate that. None hold a candle to him. In fact, there are few d-men in the league on his level when it comes to being in the right place to diffuse a play. As for the other aspects, sure the other three are blessed with harder shots and QB the pp better, but Jonsson has passing down cold. He always skated better Aucoin, and now probably better than Hammer and Niinimaa- as it seems their knee injuries slowed them a half step.

I agree however, that I'd love to acquire Arnason or Seabrook, but I would not want to sac KJ or any of our top four for that matter for them because it weakens us too much. Just my opinion. Parri I could part with for Seabrook and other goods, but I wouldn't be thrilled now, though I know it makes sense for down the road and with Scatch and Weinie coming back.

Disgraced Cosmonaut 11-20-2003 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Wrong altogether.

Adam Foote is worlds better than Roman Hamrlik, and you are also forgetting the 2nd rounder.

That's crazyspeak, but I like seeing the brazen opinion- askew as it is. Foote is not world's better than Hammer. Your leaf is worlds better than it should be.


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