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-   -   Not to overanalyze one loss (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=299156)

bw5126 10-10-2006 11:28 PM

Not to overanalyze one loss
 
What I'd like to see happen..
Line 1

Jagr-Nylander-Dawes

Lets see what Dawes can do with real players before yelling bust

Prucha-Straka-Shanaan

Cullen adds nothing to this line

Hollweg-Cullen-Ward

A REAL checking line if thats how you are going to use it

Hossa-Betts-Hall

True Blue Bleed Blue 10-10-2006 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bw5126 (Post 6722956)
What I'd like to see happen..
Line 1

Jagr-Nylander-Dawes

Lets see what Dawes can do with real players before yelling bust

Prucha-Straka-Shanaan

Cullen adds nothing to this line

Hollweg-Cullen-Ward

A REAL checking line if thats how you are going to use it

Hossa-Betts-Hall

How's this?

Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Dawes-Cullen-Shanahan
Straka-Betts-Hall
Ward-Hollweg-Orr

bleedblue94 10-11-2006 12:24 AM

ive said all along to do this

Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Dawes-Cullen-Shanahan
Hossa-Straka-Hall
Hollweg-Betts-Ward

or to swap prucha with dawes

WheresBarnaby 10-11-2006 02:43 AM

Dawes isn't a 1st line player, at least not yet. If anything go back to Jagr Nylander Prucha from last season. Doesn't matter though Jagr's not playing like Jagr. I'd rather see Shanahan on the 1st line right now.

Radek27 10-11-2006 03:15 AM

Or how about just scratch Tyutin a game or two and dress Kasper???? I don't think changing all the lines is the answer after one loss, but damn Tyutin had a bad game.

gaglinefan 10-11-2006 06:10 AM

Team D
 
Watching the games sao far this year it looks like the D :help: is out of position a lot; many of the goals Henrik has given up he had virtually no chance on. Teams seem to be able to exploit this, maybe explains why it is happening. Any thoughts?

jas 10-11-2006 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radek27 (Post 6723825)
Or how about just scratch Tyutin a game or two and dress Kasper???? I don't think changing all the lines is the answer after one loss, but damn Tyutin had a bad game.

Why single out Tyutin? Rozsival and Malik were an embarrassment last night, Ward and Rachunek were so-so and only Pock could claim any degree of good play.

NYR469 10-11-2006 06:22 AM

the problem was the lack of effort not line combos not clicking

bathgate 10-11-2006 06:39 AM

Agreed. One game does not make a season. Nevertheless in watching the replay:
Our centers were overwhelmed. Once again I'll state, this team will not go far with Nylander as top center.
Cullen is an ideal third lie center. Give Immonen a chance to center Prucha and Shanny.
Jagr is clearly below par. Without a healthy Jagr, Nylander, Straka, Rozival and Malik are exposed as not top tier quality
Finally,and most troublesome though quite early, Henke has not looked real sharp. Henke made many mistakes disappear last year. Not so this year so far. Jagr and Henke must dupilicate last year or the team will be in trouble

shoothepuck 10-11-2006 07:29 AM

It's only 3 games, and the team as a whole clearly did not come to play last night. Corrections can be made. NY has to learn to dominate in their own building, but, the lack of effort so early in the season is odd. Looking for a better game on Thursday.

True Blue 10-11-2006 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas (Post 6724055)
Why single out Tyutin? Rozsival and Malik were an embarrassment last night, Ward and Rachunek were so-so and only Pock could claim any degree of good play.

It's not so much that they were an embarassment, it's that now you are seeing what they would look like when 1) Jagr is not dominating their shifts 2) Henke is not there to bail them out.

Even for a Pock supporter like me, saying that he is the lone one who could claim good play is an inditement on the overall mediocrity of the defense. It's right back to last year. If Jagr is not dominating the game, then Henke & the PK have to be perfect. If they are not, this defense is utterly incapable of bailing the team out or even helping Henke for a change.

Levitate 10-11-2006 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas (Post 6724055)
Why single out Tyutin? Rozsival and Malik were an embarrassment last night, Ward and Rachunek were so-so and only Pock could claim any degree of good play.

I thought Rachunek and Ward both played better than Pock. Still, Pock wasn't bad.

Everyone else was, though.

Hopefully Malik and Rozsival get back to their top level of play they showed last year, cuz if they don't then that's just a terrible, terrible pairing right now.

Fletch 10-11-2006 09:11 AM

I thought so too, Levitate...
 
Rachunek put together a quiet game, which last night, meant good. Ward played hard throughout and had to deal with Tyutin's struggles. I didn't think Pock played poorly, however, as I'm still not a fan of Pock's defensive abilities (I think he's out of position too often, still isn't that strong on the puck, and like his teammates, lets forwards with the puck behind him too much), but last night he made up for that with his offense, and not just the goal.

Levitate 10-11-2006 09:13 AM

well, I think Pock has gotten a little better along the boards so far too. I was kind of surprised at a couple of times when he outworked a guy along the boards, or bumped them off the puck.

But there were still some other times when he didn't do so great.

however, he's not the one hurting the Rangers right now, soo...

Fletch 10-11-2006 09:21 AM

Agree 100%...
 
he's not hurting the team. And you'd have a big problem if your third pair is hurting you.

As for the line combos - just go back to what was working the previous two games. I don't fully understand the Hossa promotion given that Dawes had shown some nice flashes while playing on a line without a playmaker and after two games didn't really deserve the demotion, but I'd just go back to the original lines (and I thought Hossa was very invisible last night). I think Renney realized this late when he juggled his lines around, although I don't understand why Prucha wasn't bumped to Jagr's left as opposed to Dawes. Just seemed odd.

Levitate 10-11-2006 09:23 AM

I'd bet that Renney feels that it's early and if he wants to fiddle with the lines, now is the time to do it. Want to see how Dawes looks playing with some top line guys? Go for it...it's only 3 games in.

At least, that's the mindset. You can afford to mix things up a little this early in the season without it being a huge deal. If you're still mixing 20 games in, it's a problem.

Fletch 10-11-2006 09:33 AM

I'm all for that...
 
but it would be odd to want to see that and then start the guy on the fourth line. I think he ended up with only one shift with Jagr, who I'll say for the 10th time, just ain't right. A few instances show this - his penalty was a frustration penalty. Shanny seems to be the de facto captain as when the puck flew over the boards (a play in which VS didn't cover well at all) it was Shanny and Straka arguing while Jagr skated with his head down away from the refs. And Shanny's comments in the paper today sound captain-like, which I'm fine with, it just points to Jagr just not being Jagr. I just hope he doesn't hurt himself further .

Levitate 10-11-2006 09:36 AM

I thought Jagr looked better as the game went on and he kind of took it upon himself to play harder, but yeah...he's still not the Jagr from last year

Bluenote13 10-11-2006 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bw5126 (Post 6722956)
What I'd like to see happen..
Line 1

Jagr-Nylander-Dawes

Lets see what Dawes can do with real players before yelling bust

Prucha-Straka-Shanaan

Cullen adds nothing to this line

Hollweg-Cullen-Ward

A REAL checking line if thats how you are going to use it

Hossa-Betts-Hall


Not...to...overanalyze...one...loss.....

:banghead: :banghead:

:propeller

Sean Ruck 10-11-2006 09:43 AM

Im a Flyers fan and I think the line juggling you saw last night was simply an attempt to wake the team up. They got flat out out-played by the Flyers, no one looked particularly good on the Rangers other than Shanahan.

Jagr isnt much of a captain. He may be the most talented player on the Rangers, but in terms of being a leader, Shanahan is the guy. Jagr is a fine A, but not a C. When it he was named Captain, he said he'd accept it as long as he didnt rip players for poor play (funny coming from a guy who built up a reputation in the old NHL as a guy who would take games off). Sometimes though, you have to rip your teamates and tell them to step it up. Your job as a captain isnt to be everyones friend, but to set the standard for the team, and if players arent playing up to that standard you have to call them out. Shanahan will probably be the teams vocal leader, and the C in the players mind, but you cant give the C to a new aquisition over a guy like Jagr who has served his time and is a veteran and who has ok leadership skills.

Also, the Rangers need to do a better job at home against the orange and black. I think the Flyers are soemthing like 7-0-1 or 7-1-0, or something along those lines at MSG.

oldtimer 10-11-2006 10:14 AM

4 Problems Right Now
 
I was there, and besides the obvious lack of consistent effort, here's why we lost last night:

1) Jagr is not Jagr. It was obvious. Its not that he avoids anything, but he's just not the bull he was last year. The shot that was is not there. Last year, he also kept possession of the puck whenever he willed it. He showed only flashes of that last night. Forsberg, on the other hand, looked like the Jagr of last year. So there's hope, because #21 has had many injuries.

2) Lundqvist gave up at least 3 goals he would have stopped last year, including at least one particulartly horrible one. If he doesn't stand on his head, we're in trouble.

3) Renney's idiotic insistence NOT to use Pock on the Power Play. We need a pointman who shoots fast and often and on-target. Pock can do that. So why does Renney insist on Using Straka & Rozsival instead?

4) Dawes is simply not ready yet. He skates hard, but he usually loses the puck when he does. He would be well served honing his skills in Hatford for a while. Bring up Immonen. Or at least give Orr, who looked better in pre-season then he did all last year, some ice.

bathgate 10-11-2006 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtimer (Post 6724950)
I was there, and besides the obvious lack of consistent effort, here's why we lost last night:

1) Jagr is not Jagr. It was obvious. Its not that he avoids anything, but he's just not the bull he was last year. The shot that was is not there. Last year, he also kept possession of the puck whenever he willed it. He showed only flashes of that last night. Forsberg, on the other hand, looked like the Jagr of last year. So there's hope, because #21 has had many injuries.

2) Lundqvist gave up at least 3 goals he would have stopped last year, including at least one particulartly horrible one. If he doesn't stand on his head, we're in trouble.

3) Renney's idiotic insistence NOT to use Pock on the Power Play. We need a pointman who shoots fast and often and on-target. Pock can do that. So why does Renney insist on Using Straka & Rozsival instead?

4) Dawes is simply not ready yet. He skates hard, but he usually loses the puck when he does. He would be well served honing his skills in Hatford for a while. Bring up Immonen. Or at least give Orr, who looked better in pre-season then he did all last year, some ice.

Oldtimer, how have you been? Haven't heard from you in a long long time. However, you have not lost your ability to analyze the Rangers' woes.

Pens75 10-11-2006 10:51 AM

I watched the game last night, some obvious observations...

- Rangers looked confused / disorganized in all 3 zones

- Defensive coverage in own zone was horrible

- Lundqvist gave up 2 soft goals

- Soft play

---

Question: What is Adam Halls role on this team?

Onion Boy 10-11-2006 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybax (Post 6725206)
Question: What is Adam Halls role on this team?

I actually thought Hall had a good game. He and Shanahan are the only PFs on this team. Maybe Renney should try putting Hall in front of the net on the PP.

I Am Chariot 10-11-2006 11:09 AM

There is really only ONE issue here.

EFFORT

They simple were out hustled, out hit and out played.

The WHOLE team needs to raise their EFFORT for a FULL 60 mins in order to win.

The rest will sort itself out


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