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Son of Steinbrenner 11-21-2003 03:22 PM

honest observations
 
Im the biggest optimist of all. I make no apologies for that. but its clear to even myself that sather has lost this team. We looked great for about two weeks but since the Dallas game we have looked awful. I think sather has done a great job rebuilding the farm system. Nobody can deny that but this team looks just as bad as they did under trottier. He should remove himself as coach. He should keep the GM job but its clear he doesn't understand how to run a bench in the 21st century. I have the guy been the guy touting sather after every win. "Great job by sather tonight" has been what I have said after just about every win this season. It is clear to me now that the Rangers won those games because either the other team didn't have a good night. Sadly we are not going to make the playoffs because things are going to stay like this. I don't want Keenan. He would kill Dunham and I hate to think what he would do to blackburn. This is what i would do

Hire Ryan McGill as coach. this guy has the wolfpack playing the system reiney wanted to play

Lundyfan 11-21-2003 03:25 PM

Hire Ryan McGill? The man is hated by the Hartford players. Hell, he's worse than Sather if that can be possible. Nicki Fotui is the only thing that holds that staff together, if you hire anyone, hire Nicki.

NYR469 11-21-2003 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundyfan
Hire Ryan McGill? The man is hated by the Hartford players. Hell, he's worse than Sather if that can be possible. Nicki Fotui is the only thing that holds that staff together, if you hire anyone, hire Nicki.

and you are basing that on what?

Lundyfan 11-21-2003 06:06 PM

I'm basing it on comments from the players last year. You think the Rangers are bad now? Put McGill in charge, they'll listen to him for about 30 seconds.

Brooklyn Ranger 11-21-2003 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar jar links
Im the biggest optimist of all. I make no apologies for that. but its clear to even myself that sather has lost this team. We looked great for about two weeks but since the Dallas game we have looked awful. I think sather has done a great job rebuilding the farm system. Nobody can deny that but this team looks just as bad as they did under trottier. He should remove himself as coach. He should keep the GM job but its clear he doesn't understand how to run a bench in the 21st century. I have the guy been the guy touting sather after every win. "Great job by sather tonight" has been what I have said after just about every win this season. It is clear to me now that the Rangers won those games because either the other team didn't have a good night. Sadly we are not going to make the playoffs because things are going to stay like this. I don't want Keenan. He would kill Dunham and I hate to think what he would do to blackburn. This is what i would do

Hire Ryan McGill as coach. this guy has the wolfpack playing the system reiney wanted to play

McGill came from Canadian Juniors and has a total of one year's worth of experience working with professionals. He was brought in to work with young players just starting their professional career, not to babysit veterans. There is nothing, anywhere in his resume that suggests that he would be able to work with, much less motivate thirtysomething veterans who appear to be uninterested in winning even though they are playing for their GM and President.

Hiring someone like McGill would be a mistake, just like hiring Trottier was a mistake. Just like players, coaches have to be in a situation they are suited for and not one that sets them up to fail from the beginning.

Dorthmall 11-21-2003 06:30 PM

Not my number 1 choice, but how about Keenan? I wouldn't mind getting him just for this year to see if he can fix this team. Anyone know how much longer his contract is?

#37-#93-#27* 11-21-2003 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorthmall
Not my number 1 choice, but how about Keenan? I wouldn't mind getting him just for this year to see if he can fix this team. Anyone know how much longer his contract is?

He was fired not too long ago.

I agree with Brooklyn, McGill makes no sense.

Brooklyn Ranger 11-21-2003 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapa999
I think we were doing good until Leetch came back, don't know if that is coincidence or what.

So, it's all Leetch's fault? Or the fact that the "coach" is still playing him? What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

NYR469 11-21-2003 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundyfan
I'm basing it on comments from the players last year. You think the Rangers are bad now? Put McGill in charge, they'll listen to him for about 30 seconds.

last year and this year are totally different...mcgill was inexperienced last year and he learned, there are NO complaints about him this year

Brooklyn Ranger 11-21-2003 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
last year and this year are totally different...mcgill was inexperienced last year and he learned, there are NO complaints about him this year

Does that make him a candidate for coaching the Rangers? Especially since they got rid of most of the older players on the Wolfpack?

Evil Sather 11-21-2003 10:14 PM

And now you know why Sather is called Jackass :). Coherent, honest, and a little balls for suggesting McGill. You might not be a lost cause yet :p.

n8 11-21-2003 10:41 PM

mcgill has the pack first place in the AHL last i checked. i say leave him there. his value is greater smoothing our future. is one playoff appearence really gonna be worth ruining tyutin, lampman, murray, moore, stals, et al?

speaking of the pack, could you ever see the Rangers doing something like this?

:: Guaranteed Win Night :.
If the division-leading Wolf Pack lose or tie this Saturday, November 22nd against the P-Bruins, each fan in attendance (including the Wolf Pack's valued Season-Ticket and Mini-Game-Plan-holders) can exchange his or her ticket stub at the Hartford Civic Center box office for a complimentary ticket (at the same price level) to the Pack's home game Thanksgiving Eve, Wednesday, November 26th vs. the Manchester Monarchs. Faceoff Saturday night is 7:05 PM.
:lol:

if you want to pick a new coach, what are our current choices?
i think we want someone who'll hold veterans accountable. someone who'll match lines. and someone who'll make sure the defense is running airtight. suggestions?

Leetchie 11-21-2003 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n8
if you want to pick a new coach, what are our current choices?i think we want someone who'll hold veterans accountable. someone who'll match lines. and someone who'll make sure the defense is running airtight. suggestions?

Scotty Bowman?

Fletch 11-22-2003 03:07 AM

Keenan's exactly what this team needs now.,.
 
no, I'm not looking for nostalagia, but that would be the only shakeup I can see seriously affecting this team. It's perfect timing, and I think it would be effective.

donpaulo 11-22-2003 06:05 AM

how about a playing coach... let messier coach the rest of this year.
Just an idle thought :D

SingnBluesOnBroadway 11-22-2003 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundyfan
Hire Ryan McGill? The man is hated by the Hartford players. Hell, he's worse than Sather if that can be possible. Nicki Fotui is the only thing that holds that staff together, if you hire anyone, hire Nicki.

You see that's the problem. Our players love the coach too much. Since when was being liked by the players a prerequisite? I'm pretty sure the Flyers hate Captain Kangaroo Hitchcock. The Miracle on Ice team hated Herb Brooks (until they won the whole f-in thing)

n8 11-22-2003 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
no, I'm not looking for nostalagia, but that would be the only shakeup I can see seriously affecting this team. It's perfect timing, and I think it would be effective.

the only thing that concerns me about keenan is that he's one of those coaches players thrive under or die under. now how would you feel if all of our veterans respond but all the young guys just can't please iron mike? would you still be happy with lundmark traded? et al?

RushingRocket 11-22-2003 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n8
the only thing that concerns me about keenan is that he's one of those coaches players thrive under or die under. now how would you feel if all of our veterans respond but all the young guys just can't please iron mike? would you still be happy with lundmark traded? et al?

Kovalev: DIE
things won't be different the second time around

Son of Steinbrenner 11-22-2003 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
You see that's the problem. Our players love the coach too much. Since when was being liked by the players a prerequisite? I'm pretty sure the Flyers hate Captain Kangaroo Hitchcock. The Miracle on Ice team hated Herb Brooks (until they won the whole f-in thing)

i agree. i find it hard to believe the same people that kill sather for not playing the kids want keenan to be the coach. keenan would kill lundmark worse than muckler killed manny. the rangers need a coach that is tough but fair. mcgill is a the perfect guy for this team.

Davisian 11-22-2003 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RushingRocket
Kovalev: DIE
things won't be different the second time around

Keenan LOVED Kovalev.. He had his best Ranger success (besides the obivous cup win) under Keenan, who knew Kovlaev was a horse and put him out there in many positions and in any situation..

The only problem Keenan had with Kovalev was his shift length, and the famous incident where keenan made Kovalev stay out there for like 5 minutes to send the message..

I happen to think Keenan doesn't care about the age, just the player.. Old or young, if he's a "Keenan type" player, he'll play, lots.. The only problem is in trying to figure out who that kind of player is.. It isn't just grinders, nor just scorers, but something about a certain player that he seems to like..

He's usually successful for the most part in turning around the effort of a team, but I think his course has been run.. On this team or any other...

I've said I'd like to see him back for sadistic reasons, working over a few dogs, but I really don't see him being a very good fit this time..

Forget the high profile guys.. Actually, forget the coach for the most part.. Coaching is important, but this is a veteran laden team.. The lack of consistent effort its a reflection on both the guy who assembled them and the guys on the roster.. If they can't take it upon themselves to play with heart for 60 minutes, in more nights than not, then they shouldn't be around.. And the coach should keep the guys out there who do work hard..

I say forget Keenan, the guy I want behind that bench is Peter Laviolette..

Kodiak 11-22-2003 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar jar links
i agree. i find it hard to believe the same people that kill sather for not playing the kids want keenan to be the coach. keenan would kill lundmark worse than muckler killed manny.

I don't think Keenan would necessarily kill Lundmark. Keenan always at least respected the guys that gave it their all on the ice, and that's Lundmark more than anyone on this team. I think the guys that would have a huge problem with Keenan would be guys like Mironov, Malakhov, Poti, Hlavac, Lindros, Carter, etc. Basically, the guys that look like they don't care about half the time they're out there.

However, if we get Keenan, Dunham's groin muscles would be snapping left and right. Keenan runs his goalies into the ground worse than Sather does, and that's not the best strategy to have when you're working with what is probably the most brittle starting goalie in the NHL.

Quote:

the rangers need a coach that is tough but fair. mcgill is a the perfect guy for this team.
I don't think that a veteran team would respect a guy like McGill, who has proven nothing in the NHL as a coach (either head or assitant) or a player. At least Trottier was well thought of around the league as an assitant with Colorado.

LondonFan 11-22-2003 02:14 PM

Tom Renney?

Brooklyn Ranger 11-22-2003 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar jar links
i agree. i find it hard to believe the same people that kill sather for not playing the kids want keenan to be the coach. keenan would kill lundmark worse than muckler killed manny. the rangers need a coach that is tough but fair. mcgill is a the perfect guy for this team.

Keenan has always worked well with younger players and has helped get their game to a higher level. Joe Thornton, Pronger, Kovalev, Zubov (who had his greatest year under Keenan), the kids in Vancouver, Olli Jokkanan in Florida. Keenan is actually hardest on the veterans who's he's seen enough of to know that he doesn't like their style of play. Poti would be an obvious candidate for the "Keenan treatment."

You still haven't explained--other than claim Mcgill is "tough but fair"--why McGill is the answer to the Rangers' problems. He didn't have the most successful first season and it's less than a quarter of the way through this one, what has he suddenly learned about working with veterans? How will he motivate de Vries not to run around when the guy who signed de Vries can't seem to get through to him? What tricks does he have up his sleeve to get the forwards to back check when the Wolfpack don't do it (see McGill's comments via King's post of the Courant article) every night either?

Edge 11-22-2003 03:24 PM

After 6 years of no playoffs and 5 head coaches maybe the problem isn't necessarily behind the bench but the menatality this team is built with.

People talk about sather being genious but it doesnt take one to figure out that the way he won a cup in edmonton is 180 degrees different then the way he is trying in ny.

Maybe the answer isnt in a coach but rather a foundation of youth and depth, something this team hasnt had since the early 90's when smith came in and said "this is what we need to do".

McGill would be a good coach, if the rangers were willing to rebuild but they aren't so it is a mute point. in fact even talking about success or turnarounds is a mute point until this team changes it's mentality. to argue it any other way makes no sense. it's all lip service and a dellusion to make this horrible organization not seem so bad.

You wanna know when we'll win like everyone wants? When they realize they need to change the way they do business? when will that be? when people stop buying tickets and rooting in blind faith with ultimate optimism like a retarded mutt that keeps coming back no matter how many times you kick it in the face.

Ultimately the fans are going to be the ones who make a difference. When they stop buying tickets, when merchandise sales go down the tubes, when the rangers become a "tough" sell is when cablevision will make changes. until then, like any company, you don't fix a bad product if people are stupid enough to buy it.

That includes people's unwarranted optimism and throwing dollars down on this team only to insult them like the losing effort was such a shock.

Wanna know when this team will change? When people wake the ---- up!

Lundyfan 11-22-2003 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
You see that's the problem. Our players love the coach too much. Since when was being liked by the players a prerequisite? I'm pretty sure the Flyers hate Captain Kangaroo Hitchcock. The Miracle on Ice team hated Herb Brooks (until they won the whole f-in thing)

To me it's not as much the players liking him as respecting him. Ok, so far this year his team has done well but I'm not sold on him. Maybe I'm wrong but it's a little early to be promoting this guy to head coach of the Rangers.


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