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-   -   Mtl/Edm/Atl proposal(rumour) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=30138)

FacelessButcher 11-21-2003 07:09 PM

Mtl/Edm/Atl proposal(rumour)
 
k in the Montreal board this rumour was shared-http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=30056 and every team seems to think they are getting the worst side. Regardless of the rumours legitimacy I think it should be discussed in terms of trade value.

To Edm:
Marcel Hossa
Ron Hainsey
Braydon Coburn

Edmonton gives:Mike Comrie, Alexei Semenov, Jarret Stoll, and 2nd pick 2004 or 2005


To Mtl:
Patrick Stefan
Jarret Stoll
Atlanta's 1st pick 2004
Edmonton 2nd pick 2004 or 2005

Montreal gives:Marcel Hossa, Ron Hainsey, and Richard Zednik


To Atl:
Mike Comrie
Alexei Semenov
Richard Zednik

Atlanta Gives:Braydon Coburn,1st pick 2004, and Patrick Stefan


So lets settle this dispute who's getting screwed? and who comes out on top?

andora 11-21-2003 07:11 PM

edmonton walks away with a wet crotch from glee

oilers_guy_eddie 11-21-2003 07:13 PM

Quote:

my buddy was on an Edmonton business trip and heard this on a talk show. I don`t have the source so please don`t ask for it.
riiiiiight

FF de Mars 11-21-2003 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
k in the Montreal board this rumour was shared-http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=30056 and every team seems to think they are getting the worst side. Regardless of the rumours legitimacy I think it should be discussed in terms of trade value.

To Edm:
Marcel Hossa
Ron Hainsey
Braydon Coburn

Edmonton gives:Mike Comrie, Alexei Semenov, Jarret Stoll, and 2nd pick 2004 or 2005


To Mtl:
Patrick Stefan
Jarret Stoll
Atlanta's 1st pick 2004
Edmonton 2nd pick 2004 or 2005

Montreal gives:Marcel Hossa, Ron Hainsey, and Richard Zednik


To Atl:
Mike Comrie
Alexei Semenov
Richard Zednik

Atlanta Gives:Braydon Coburn,1st pick 2004, and Patrick Stefan


So lets settle this dispute who's getting screwed? and who comes out on top?

It's too early in the season to talk about trading 1st round picks, especially from ATL... Nobody knows how high/low it will be...

Kasparov* 11-21-2003 07:30 PM

Montreal gets screwed the most, followed by Edmonton.

Ice Cream Man 11-21-2003 08:07 PM

Atlanta walks away with arguably the 3 best players in the deal right now, and Montreal and Edmonton both get the shaft, especially Montreal - they take it up the rear like there's no tomorrow.

That said, if Edmonton gets screwed in this trade, them I'm all for it! :p

outKast* 11-21-2003 09:50 PM

My cousin's, aunt's, friend's, sister's, cousin's, brother's, daughter's, niece's, uncle who is best friends with Pat Quinn just called me a second ago that Calgary is trading Jarome Iginla to Edmonton, while Edmonton trades Mikko Luoma and Chad Hinz, anfd Calgary aquires Telqvist and Jay Harrison. :) ENJOY. Disclaimer.... This IS BS!

zetterberg40 11-21-2003 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasparov
Montreal gets screwed the most, followed by Edmonton.

To me, edm walks away happy... they give up a holdout, and 2 young players for a top notch defensive prospect and 2 other good players...

IMHO each team gets hosed in a different way

Evil Sather 11-21-2003 10:06 PM

Completely, ridiculously absurd. Beyond stupid. At least I can understand the theory of "lets trade our junk for their good player", but this... what the hell is this? "Let's move our good young guys and picks for... other good young guys and picks." No rhyme, no reason, no logic, no sale, no brains. Goodnight.

SUOMI 11-21-2003 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilflip
My cousin's, aunt's, friend's, sister's, cousin's, brother's, daughter's, niece's, uncle who is best friends with Pat Quinn just called me a second ago that Calgary is trading Jarome Iginla to Edmonton, while Edmonton trades Mikko Luoma and Chad Hinz, anfd Calgary aquires Telqvist and Jay Harrison. :) ENJOY. Disclaimer.... This IS BS!

Really, I've heard the same...maybe we are in the same family... :rolly:

ICX* 11-21-2003 10:32 PM

If this deal was being made in a maximum security prison, Montreal and Edmonton would be wearing pigtails and lipstick right now.

thome_26 11-21-2003 10:56 PM

Ya, that's pretty terrible! Why even repost it?

Voynich 11-22-2003 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thome_26
Ya, that's pretty terrible! Why even repost it?


I think the intent was for objective posters to analyze the deal since all three sides involved believed they were bent over, without even the courtesy of some lube, in the deal.

Munchausen 11-22-2003 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voynich
I think the intent was for objective posters to analyze the deal since all three sides involved believed they were bent over, without even the courtesy of some lube, in the deal.

I don't see how Atlanta gets screwed with this deal. Stefan, Coburn and a 1st for Comrie, Zednik and Semenov? Seems like the upper hand of that "rumor" to me.

FacelessButcher 11-22-2003 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thome_26
Ya, that's pretty terrible! Why even repost it?

"Regardless of the rumours legitimacy I think it should be discussed in terms of trade value."

tisk tisk nobody put on their reading glasses today :shakehead

Beatnik 11-22-2003 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
I don't see how Atlanta gets screwed with this deal. Stefan, Coburn and a 1st for Comrie, Zednik and Semenov? Seems like the upper hand of that "rumor" to me.


Stefan worth more than Zednik right now.(older, bigger salary, similar season)

Coburn worth more than Semenov

good first round pick for Comrie?
Comrie worth maybe a bit more but i still think Atlanta lose this one.

Orange 11-22-2003 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatnik
Stefan worth more than Zednik right now.(older, bigger salary, similar season)

Give me a break, Stefan's value as only been dropping since his first stride in the NHL. Right now I can't ever see him aspire for more than 3rd line duty. People can get 3rd liners anywhere ... No need to give Zednik for that !

FacelessButcher 11-22-2003 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Completely, ridiculously absurd. Beyond stupid. At least I can understand the theory of "lets trade our junk for their good player", but this... what the hell is this? "Let's move our good young guys and picks for... other good young guys and picks." No rhyme, no reason, no logic, no sale, no brains. Goodnight.

Well if anyone were going to trade good young players for good young players it would be Montreal and Edmonton we shared a farm team and like one anothers prospects and have had plenty of time to watch them, we might value one anothers possesions a little more than our own and hence trade them.

I'll re-hash what I think each team gains in terms of characteristics to help their team.

Edmonton gains:
-Hossa: scouting reports indicate he has a good shot and can play Rw Edmonton has been looking for scoring/sniperesque prospect and he fits the bill.
-Hainsey:good puck moving ability essential for break-out passes to use Edmonton's speed and skates well for size something Edmonton loves.
-Coburn: the young stud on d we've been looking for even if we need to wait a while for him to play in the big leagues. Also has good size, mobility, and puck movement skills which we want.

Edmonton loses:
-Stoll: good checking line center with a little scoring touch his best quality is leadership skills which may be less essential with long term signings of Staios and Moreau who are leaders on the Edmonton squad.
-Semenov: struggled to make it into the line-up and coaching staff has been displeased with his effort over the summer. Coburn will replace the big stay-at-home type defender that he is.
-Comrie: :D
-2nd pick makes it a little pricey from the Edmonton stand-point

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^*^*^

Montreal gains:
-Stoll: his leadership skills would be of great benefit he is in the Trevor Linden player-type mold. He's a heart and soul guy who's willing to do what it takes to win which Montreal needs more of and 6ft1 200lb frame adds size down the middle for Montreal.
-Stefan: more size down the middle needs a change of scenery former 1st overall pick who has been playing better of recent pretty sound 2-way player. Will probably take Perrault's former spot in the line-up.
-1st pick Atlanta: could be potentially really good but is a gamble, I don't know how much more re-building moves Montreal fans can take before they start pulling out there hair.
-2nd pick Edmonton 2004 or 2005: more picks just reshuffling the deck

Montreal loses:
-Zednik: has been putting up disappointing numbers so far this year I would be suprised if they shopped him but maybe they believe he can not put up similair totals to last year.
-Hossa: not overly impressive so far has sat out his fair share of games makes more room for other prospect forwards they might try to get in the line-up
-Hainsey: makes room for Komisarek not really much upside to trading him

*^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^*^**^*^*^*^

Atlanta gains:
-Comrie: similair to Savard have two play-making centers who can score makes for a very strong top six forwards when Heatley returns
-Semenov: impact player now good size and makes losing Coburn not sting as much possibly the hardest point shot in the entire league.
-Zednik: giving up a lot of future for a better team now but again better top 6 provides good goal scoring from the Rw.

Atlanta loses:
-Coburn: the number one stud on the back end they were waiting for pretty essential piece to their teams future but taking a win now more mentality.
-Stefan: been dissapointing considering he's a first overall pick never lived up to his potential(yet) should not be too many tears shed on this one
-1st pick 2004 could hurt really bad depending on where you finish pretty uncharacteristic of a young team going boom or bust with these trades

FacelessButcher 11-22-2003 08:26 AM

How I see the trades stack up-

Edmonton perspective: (improving defense 4 trade pieces for 3 trade pieces a little more quality a little less quantity)
Comrie=Coburn
Stoll+Semenov+2nd > Hossa+Hainsey (were arguably improving our prospects and toning it more to our needs the difference in quality I feel is not a 2nd pick differential more like a 3rd or 4th.

Montreal perspective: (rebuild, increased size down center, and young leadership to grow with the team)
Zednik=?1st pick Atlanta(it really depends where it lands and what you think of the new Atlanta line-up I'd say 12th overall is equal to Zednik anything above is a win for Montreal and anything below is a loss)
Stefan+Stoll+2nd < Hossa+Hainsey (not gastly far off really depends if you think Stefan can ever become the player he was supposed to)

Atlanta perspective: (sacrifice future for now but all the players you recieve are young so not too bad really improves offense)
Coburn=Comrie(takes another player he likes to pry him out as your GM does not want to make that swap)
Stefan < Semenov
1st pick=? Zednik

To fix this trade I would say Edmonton deceases its 2nd pick to a 3rd. Atlanta gives a 2nd pick(not quite that much maybe a 4th coming back from Mtl) or decent prospect to Montreal.

SabresRule 11-22-2003 08:28 AM

seeing as it wont happen, waddell has already stated that coburn IS NOT going. but it seems alrite. emdonton get a litte screwed.

Munchausen 11-22-2003 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Edmonton gains:
-Hossa: scouting reports indicate he has a good shot and can play Rw Edmonton has been looking for scoring/sniperesque prospect and he fits the bill.

I think this is a bit off. Yes Hossa has a very good shot but is shy about using it. He's not a sniper and doesn't have the scorer mentality at all. The talent is there but he has confidence issues which means it'll take longer than expected for him to develop. Hossa has always been a setter. He was a center when drafted and I've always thought it was a huge mistake on Savard's part to move him to left wing where he's never seem to adapt that well.

My take on this deal from a Montreal's POV is that it's near horrible in terms of rebuilding. There's already Koivu and Ribeiro down the middle who offensively will put better numbers than Stoll and Stefan. Stefan to me is of no interest. I don't beleive he'll ever put numbers in this league justifying more than 3rd line duty. So those two would be relegated on the 3rd and 4th lines. Then Altanta's 1st pick is interesting but nothing spectacular considering Montreal has been pilling up 1st rounders and fans are begining to be fed up with the rebuilding mode the Habs have been in for 5 years.

Bottom line: Zednik, Hossa and Hainsey seems like a hefty price for two 3rd liners and a pick. They lose scoring, scoring potential and a puck-moving Dman for players that would find themselves in a log jam of role players in Montreal. Stoll is the only thing interesting in that deal from a Habs POV. I'd love to have him as the future 3rd line center. But of course, never at this kind of price.

EDIT: I'd do Stoll for Hainsey/Hossa straight up however.

FacelessButcher 11-22-2003 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
I think this is a bit off. Yes Hossa has a very good shot but is shy about using it. He's not a sniper and doesn't have the scorer mentality at all. The talent is there but he has confidence issues which means it'll take longer than expected for him to develop. Hossa has always been a setter. He was a center when drafted and I've always thought it was a huge mistake on Savard's part to move him to left wing where he's never seem to adapt that well.

My take on this deal from a Montreal's POV is that it's near horrible in terms of rebuilding. There's already Koivu and Ribeiro down the middle who offensively will put better numbers than Stoll and Stefan. Stefan to me is of no interest. I don't beleive he'll ever put numbers in this league justifying more than 3rd line duty. So those two would be relegated on the 3rd and 4th lines. Then Altanta's 1st pick is interesting but nothing spectacular considering Montreal has been pilling up 1st rounders and fans are begining to be fed up with the rebuilding mode the Habs have been in for 5 years.

Bottom line: Zednik, Hossa and Hainsey seems like a hefty price for two 3rd liners and a pick. They lose scoring, scoring potential and a puck-moving Dman for players that would find themselves in a log jam of role players in Montreal. Stoll is the only thing interesting in that deal from an Habs POV. I'd love to have him as the future 3rd line center. But of course, never at this kind of price.

Undoubtably Montreal gets the worse end IMO. I figured Ribiero would play Lw and would put Stefan on 2nd. Both Stefan and Stoll are kind of in the middle between 2nd and 3rd line center they have enough scoring potential to be put on 2nd line but have many 3rd line characteristics. Thanks for the Hossa tid-bits only seen him play once so used scouting reports for the info.

guessed these lines:

Ribiero-Koivu-Ryder
Bulis-Stefan-Ward/Audette?(that 2nd line rw does not look to great, I guess Perzhogin is waiting in the wings)
Juneau-Stoll-Sundstrom
Langdon?-Begin-Ward/Audette

Munchausen 11-22-2003 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Undoubtably Montreal gets the worse end IMO. I figured Ribiero would play Lw and would put Stefan on 2nd. Both Stefan and Stoll are kind of in the middle between 2nd and 3rd line center they have enough scoring potential to be put on 2nd line but have many 3rd line characteristics. Thanks for the Hossa tid-bits only seen him play once so used scouting reports for the info.

guessed these lines:

Ribiero-Koivu-Ryder
Bulis-Stefan-Ward/Audette?(that 2nd line rw does not look to great, I guess Perzhogin is waiting in the wings)
Juneau-Stoll-Sundstrom
Langdon?-Begin-Ward/Audette

Ribeiro cannot play LW. He's too slow and too small to be effective there. Also, his game is all about passing. He cannot work the boards and needs to be in the center of the ice to see the ice well and feed his wingers more effectively. He has amazing vision and silky smooth hands but that's pretty much it. Not suited for the wing at all (it was already tried and it did not work).

AEKaki 11-23-2003 01:35 PM

The cousin of the best friend of my buddie's sister told me that the Penguins are trading Alek Stojanov to Vancouver for Markus Naslund.
Just a rumour.
:cry:


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