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-   -   something has to give (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=31172)

onemorecup* 11-26-2003 04:16 AM

something has to give
 
with this proposed youth movement not in full force, something has to give by say game 40-50 . I understand not rushing kids, but with our veteran stiffs in the lineup, our kids can`t do worse. The point is if we are not going to resign our vets whose contracts expire this year, we need 5-7 bodies to fill spots. We need to phase some in on a permanent basis to ease their transition next year. You don`t wan`t a NYI situation where all their vets retire at once , and you have a dozen bodies to fill in a short time. I see no logic at mid season , trade or no trade, why
HAINSEY, HOSSA, KOMI, RYDER, HIGGINS, and maybe PLEKS aren`t
regulars in this lineup, this way next year the transition is smoother .
I still think Gainey is up to something.

Marchy79 11-26-2003 04:33 AM

I also happen to think Gainey is up to something... Which is why I was so antsy yesterday for a deal to happen...

But I also happen to think that some guys should be up as well, but it is hard to create room with some of the pieces on the squad being deemed untradeable (i.e. Audette is a good example of this)

What I ultimately would like to see is a new player, DIFFERENT than what we have already... My big problem with this squad is that there are too many guys that can give the exact same game as others
(i.e. Sundstrom/Dackell)

goalchenyuk 11-26-2003 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeman
with this proposed youth movement not in full force, something has to give by say game 40-50 . I understand not rushing kids, but with our veteran stiffs in the lineup, our kids can`t do worse. The point is if we are not going to resign our vets whose contracts expire this year, we need 5-7 bodies to fill spots. We need to phase some in on a permanent basis to ease their transition next year. You don`t wan`t a NYI situation where all their vets retire at once , and you have a dozen bodies to fill in a short time. I see no logic at mid season , trade or no trade, why
HAINSEY, HOSSA, KOMI, RYDER, HIGGINS, and maybe PLEKS aren`t
regulars in this lineup, this way next year the transition is smoother .
I still think Gainey is up to something.

i think a lot of us are misspoint the youth movement ; already we have young players with the team that slowly learn the pro game .to think that add few other youg horses couldn't be worse than what by now is wrong :yes it worse because old players are able to deal more easily with a team that loose most of the time .I don"t want the youngsters to learne to loose , so at that time they are way better to play in the farm team .They learn to win and they also learn to play as team-mates...
Hossa , if he had strong game on the board still just scored 1 goal .Hainsey was not playing with confidence , and looked often to be in the panic mode...why ? because they are still young .Ribeiro , Garon and ryder are just a little older , and they are playing much better because of that .

So , i think we are doing the movement of youth , because the ahl is a part of it ...don't expect to much of the young horses !

Jag68Sid87 11-26-2003 06:39 AM

I think the notion that you don't want "young players to lose" is completely false. Ilya Kovalchuk's plus/minus rating was God-awful his first 2 years with the Thrashers. Remember Joe Sakic getting his +/- up in the frigid -40 range back in the Nordiques range? Both players lost and they lost a LOT. Losing while playing NHL games builds character. If the players get ruined, chances are they weren't that great to begin with because there are busts all over the sports world, even players that stay two extra years in the junior ranks, then play 2 years in the minors and then get brought along slowly on the big club.

All the Canadiens are doing right now is coddling their kids and living in the past. Back in Gainey's day, if you were a kid you sat. Period. That's because chances are you were behind a Hall-of-Fame player. The Canadiens continue to practice this antiquated concept today, except now kids get frustrated because they are now playing behind Andreas Dackell and Joe Juneau, Craig Rivet and Francis Bouillon. They want to know Komisarek's not playing as well as last year? Perhaps it's because he knows he's the third-best defenseman on the team already, yet he's yet to play a game in the NHL this season. If that doesn't mess with your head I don't know what will.

Darz 11-26-2003 08:23 AM

Let's not rush the kids.

I don't know how many times it has to be said before some people understand....If we rush the kids up before they are ready it will hurt their development. PERIOD!

When the kids are NHL ready they will be brought up by management and spots will be made. Hossa was sent down because he still has things to work on, he stated it himself. Ditto Hainsey. Keeping them up here and playing them over a vet would hamper there development. PERIOD. They need to spend time in an enviroment more geared towards learning and perfecting the game. That place is Hamilton, that place is NOT Montreal. When management feels they are ready for another shot at the NHL they will get it.

People must understand when you are in a youth movement, that doesn't nessesarily mean you bring all your kids up to the bigs and institute a 'sink or swim' mentality, because if you do to many prospects will 'sink'. If you bring them along slowly making sure they are ready for the bigs when they show up in Mtl we will becoming more successful and less will 'sink'.

Let's not lose patience and talk irrational. Let's leave that to the media.

goalchenyuk 11-26-2003 09:31 AM

you are not serious when you compare players like Kovalchuk or Sakik with players like Hossa , Dagenais or plecanek ?those last are our players .They are good but have nothing close to the ones you name .

New jersay is one of the best team since a long time and it is great for a team that never get top rank draft choice .But they have a really good scout team and they have the reputation to take the time to devloppe their players .The farm team teach the big team system , so when they call up a player , he know what to do .

we are much close to that kind of team than a team like Atlanta that have draft in 1-2 or 3 rd rank for years .:teach:

Jag68Sid87 11-26-2003 11:15 AM

So, the plan is to model New Jersey? Ok, so aside from boring everybody to death, what's the plan? New Jersey can be New Jersey because:

A) They have a scouting director (David Conte) that is perhaps the best in the business and has continuously come up with loads of talent for the system, so they are able to not spend money for the talented players they have that ask for more money...they just start over. It's a pipeline and it's been going on for quite some time. But even the Devils in 1988 were just a collection of kids that came together. It HAS to start somewhere.

B) They don't have the same fan base as Montreal. There may be a few people upset that the team is boring to watch but nobody really cares since they are the third wheel of the NYC market. Always have been, always will be.

C) They've NEVER had a Rocket Richard, Jean Beliveau, Guy Lafleur, etc. They've never had stars. The stars of the Devils franchise are a goalie (Brodeur) and a stay-at-home, bruising defenseman (Stevens). They've NEVER even had a 100-point scorer.

Should THIS really be the model franchise for hockey-mad Montreal? Next time you're at the Bell Centre, try doing a little survey and ask Montrealers what kind of hockey they like to watch? Somehow, I doubt there will be too many people "excited" about seeing the team play the trap for the rest of its existence.

zurg999 11-26-2003 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
So, the plan is to model New Jersey? Ok, so aside from boring everybody to death, what's the plan?

snip

Should THIS really be the model franchise for hockey-mad Montreal? Next time you're at the Bell Centre, try doing a little survey and ask Montrealers what kind of hockey they like to watch? Somehow, I doubt there will be too many people "excited" about seeing the team play the trap for the rest of its existence.

Has NJ been all that boring to watch?

I really don't think so. I think some have bought into that idea (as propogate by the media) rather than truly paying attention.

goalchenyuk 11-26-2003 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zurg999
Has NJ been all that boring to watch?

I really don't think so. I think some have bought into that idea (as propogate by the media) rather than truly paying attention.

agree ! most of the people think that this team is just able to play a defensive play ; it is false .The team also scored a lot of goals in the past years ...

and yes they have probably one of , or the best scouting system of the league , but i think that Savard and his team are also great ...

Darz 11-27-2003 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
Should THIS really be the model franchise for hockey-mad Montreal? Next time you're at the Bell Centre, try doing a little survey and ask Montrealers what kind of hockey they like to watch?

I think the fans in Montreal would say whatever kind of hockey it takes to bring Lord Stanley's Cup back to Montreal!!!!!!!!


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