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-   -   The decline of Quebec born players with Habs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=313710)

Tervin 11-21-2006 02:01 AM

The decline of Quebec born players with Habs
 
Just noticed that Habs went 10 games from beginning of season without a point from a Quebec born player. Begin scored in the 11th game. It must be, or at least not far from being the worst sequence for quebec born players in Habs history. Bouillon/Dandenault were injured and Begin/Latendresse were playing on a non-productive 4th line.

Right now, we stand on 9pts after 19 games from the local guys. It would be interesting to see what is the worst season in Habs history in terms of points.

I added up a few numbers :
2005/06 130 pts
2003/04 222 pts
2002/03 190 pts
2001/02 217 pts
2000/01 140 pts
1999/00 127 pts
1998/99 133 pts
1997/98 185 pts
1996/97 215 pts

Could the 127 pts from the 1999/00 season be the lowest points total in Habs history and are we well on the way of establishing a new low ?

Next week article : The rise of Russia born players with the Habs:sarcasm:

vcx* 11-21-2006 02:06 AM

Your that bored huh?

trentmccleary 11-21-2006 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervin (Post 7126782)
It would be interesting to see what is the worst season in Habs history in terms of points.

The lowest is 70 points in 00-01. That is 70 points for the team in league standings --> the only point standings you need concern yourself with. Finishing 24th with what looks like a dozen french players in and out of your line up isn't any nicer than finishing 24th with english players or Europeans. :teach:

waffledave 11-21-2006 02:21 AM

Realistically, there aren't as many French-born superstars in the league as there used to be.

Currently, how many French stars can you think of? Guys like Boullion, Dandenault and even Begin (as much as well love him) are far from stars...

Bergeron...Lecavalier...St Louis...Briere...Gagne...Thats all I can think of off the top of my head (it's 2 AM, keep in mind).

My point is you can't expect a superstar Quebecer or 2 on the team when there aren't that many to begin with. There are 30 teams in the league and talent gets spread thin.

It would be like trying to count the number of Swedish born players from a certain city or area in Sweden...And then counting the number of points these guys get on a specific team.

Tervin 11-21-2006 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XXXX (Post 7126805)
Your that bored huh?

Well, personnaly, I love stats. Though it might interest others. Perhaps you shouldn't reed nor reply if it bores you. But thanks anyway for your concern, very warm welcome to HFBoards.

waffledave 11-21-2006 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervin (Post 7126865)
Well, personnaly, I love stats. Though it might interest others. Perhaps you shouldn't reed nor reply if it bores you. But thanks anyway for your concern, very warm welcome to HFBoards.

This issue has been beaten to death already, and bringing it up just pisses people off.

It's interesting, because only here does it come up...Other boards like chfans NEVER bring up language or nationality issues. They don't care about the number of French people on the team or how many points they get or anything of that nature.

It makes you wonder if it's because this is an English board that you see such hostility and attention to the topic. It's as if just putting so many anglos and francos together in the same place brings it out.

Tervin 11-21-2006 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 7126895)
This issue has been beaten to death already, and bringing it up just pisses people off.

It's interesting, because only here does it come up...Other boards like chfans NEVER bring up language or nationality issues. They don't care about the number of French people on the team or how many points they get or anything of that nature.

It makes you wonder if it's because this is an English board that you see such hostility and attention to the topic. It's as if just putting so many anglos and francos together in the same place brings it out.

Oh! did not know it was such a sensitive topic on this board. Note that I have no interest in discussing language or nationality issues. I was talking about Quebec born players including the Damphousse's but also the Randy McKay's. It seemed like an interesting topic to me since I grew up and played with hundreds of hockey players in Quebec that all dreamed to play for the Habs one day. But if some people feel insulted or anoyed about it, we can talk about something else. We're here to have fun after all.

ECWHSWI 11-21-2006 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 7126895)
This issue has been beaten to death already, and bringing it up just pisses people off.

It's interesting, because only here does it come up...Other boards like chfans NEVER bring up language or nationality issues. They don't care about the number of French people on the team or how many points they get or anything of that nature.

It makes you wonder if it's because this is an English board that you see such hostility and attention to the topic. It's as if just putting so many anglos and francos together in the same place brings it out.

In fact, its 100 times worst on french speaking boards, chfans being the exception.

Beatnik 11-21-2006 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervin (Post 7126943)
Oh! did not know it was such a sensitive topic on this board. Note that I have no interest in discussing language or nationality issues. I was talking about Quebec born players including the Damphousse's but also the Randy McKay's. It seemed like an interesting topic to me since I grew up and played with hundreds of hockey players in Quebec that all dreamed to play for the Habs one day. But if some people feel insulted or anoyed about it, we can talk about something else. We're here to have fun after all.

A lot of people here hate french quebecers so those topics always turn very ugly.

Mr. Hab 11-21-2006 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervin (Post 7126782)
Just noticed that Habs went 10 games from beginning of season without a point from a Quebec born player. Begin scored in the 11th game. It must be, or at least not far from being the worst sequence for quebec born players in Habs history. Bouillon/Dandenault were injured and Begin/Latendresse were playing on a non-productive 4th line.

Right now, we stand on 9pts after 19 games from the local guys. It would be interesting to see what is the worst season in Habs history in terms of points.

I added up a few numbers :
2005/06 130 pts
2003/04 222 pts
2002/03 190 pts
2001/02 217 pts
2000/01 140 pts
1999/00 127 pts
1998/99 133 pts
1997/98 185 pts
1996/97 215 pts

Could the 127 pts from the 1999/00 season be the lowest points total in Habs history and are we well on the way of establishing a new low ?

Next week article : The rise of Russia born players with the Habs:sarcasm:

Well...we could go get J-P Bergeron;) , but I think it would take Higgins to get him. Bruins love their Bergeron, we loooooooooove our Higgins. So they both stay!!
We also missed our chance with Bernier (other teams did, as well, not to worry;) ).

With Bergeron, we had our chance at Draft day (2nd round, 45th overall)...so many teams missed Bergeron except for Bruins who finally took him! Well, we had Latendresse at 45th overall, 2nd round also!!! So, pretty good for us. We can't draft 'em all!! (although we'd like to!!).

p.s.: welcome to HF Boards!!

Tervin 11-21-2006 04:59 AM

It would be like trying to count the number of Swedish born players from a certain city or area in Sweden...And then counting the number of points these guys get on a specific team.[/QUOTE]


Yes, counting the number of points these guys get on a specific (SEL) team, from that specific region of Sweden. I don't think it is completely irrelevant. There is always more interest for local guys in any team of every sport in every country. It's just human nature.

For instance, a friend of mine from Minnesota was telling me that there was a great hype in his state prior to the 2006 draft as the media and hockey community in general was convinced the Wild would get one of the local guys : Johnson, Okposo, Mueller. It was a great disappointment when none of the 3 slipped to them.

beowulf 11-21-2006 07:32 AM

I honestly do not care. As long as the team wins I could not care if we do not even have a Quebec born player on the team. Sure it helps with the marketing, especially to the french side, but other then that all I want is a cup.

Carbonneau 11-21-2006 07:50 AM

The Habs organization is definitely racist

Beatnik 11-21-2006 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonneau (Post 7127432)
The Habs organization is definitely racist

what??

Le Tricolore 11-21-2006 08:12 AM

Now how did the team do with Polish players?

Dr. Charles 11-21-2006 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 7126895)
This issue has been beaten to death already, and bringing it up just pisses people off.

It's interesting, because only here does it come up...Other boards like chfans NEVER bring up language or nationality issues. They don't care about the number of French people on the team or how many points they get or anything of that nature.

It makes you wonder if it's because this is an English board that you see such hostility and attention to the topic. It's as if just putting so many anglos and francos together in the same place brings it out.

You are a good part in "beating to death" a french/english topic...

Edit : and by good part, I do not mean you are good in any way...

Tuggy 11-21-2006 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonneau (Post 7127432)
The Habs organization is definitely racist

:biglaugh:

I agree. I demand more Austrailian players!

beowulf 11-21-2006 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Tricolore (Post 7127503)
Now how did the team do with Polish players?

Do you have a problem with Polaks? I am half Polish and find this insulting :dunce:

DCL72 11-21-2006 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervin (Post 7126782)
Just noticed that Habs went 10 games from beginning of season without a point from a Quebec born player. Begin scored in the 11th game. It must be, or at least not far from being the worst sequence for quebec born players in Habs history. Bouillon/Dandenault were injured and Begin/Latendresse were playing on a non-productive 4th line.

Bouillion was actually born in New York.

IcE ColD 11-21-2006 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Tricolore (Post 7127503)
Now how did the team do with Polish players?

Well, the Polish Prince did *really* good if you remember well. :biglaugh:

Lestriker 11-21-2006 10:12 AM

The Montreal Canadiens exist because of French Canadian players.

AD 11-21-2006 10:16 AM

I can't wait til this thread gets ugly...


We gonna have ourselved a Old fashioned Ho-Down!!! HEEEEEEE HAAAAAW





*By the way, the thread starter make a very interesting point and this topic is actually pretty interesting. Too bad this thread will turn into a political demagogue discussion.






Quebec is a nation.

Discuss.

rocketlives 11-21-2006 10:17 AM

If you compare the last year we won a cup 1992-93 to 1999-00 when we missed the playoffs, it gives you the following picture:

1992-93:

Damphousse: 97
Lebeau: 80
Savard: 50
Dionne: 48
Desjardins: 45
Brisebois: 31
Brunet: 25
Daigneault: 18
Carbonneau: 17
Roberge: 8
Belanger: 5
Dufresne: 3
Roy: 2

Total 430 points

1999-00:

Brisebois: 35
Brunet: 29
Dykhuis: 19
Bouillon: 16
Poulin: 15
Belanger: 9
Laflamme: 2
Ribeiro: 1

Total: 126 points

I don't think the francophone fans in Montreal want to have French Canadian players on their team at all cost. In 1999-00 there were 8 francophone players left on the team but look at the low quality. The year we won the Cup in 1993 there were 13 francophone players on the team and the top 3 point getters weren't drafted by the Habs' organization. Lebeau was signed as a free agent and Damphousse and Savard were obtained in trades. Can't say I liked the Chelios for Savard trade though. Subsequently the habs traded Lebeau for Tugnut, ignored Damphousse as a UFA and traded Roy, Desjardins and Carbonneau which partly led to the dismal situation of 1999-00.

Having home-grown talent is good marketing in any sports providing the players drafted or obtained in trades are worth it. The Habs francophone players in 1999-00 weren't very good but some of the other players like Barry Richter, Matt Higgins, Miroslav Guren, Jason Ward, Scott Lachance, Jim Cummins and Craig Darby weren't really that much better. We really had a lousy team that year.

I don't want French-Canadian players at all cost, but over the years, we have often opted for the bigger players from the Western provinces than the smaller talented players from the Q i.e Terry Ryan/Daniel Briere, Corey Urquhart/Patrice Bergeron and Duncan Milroy/Jason Pominville just to give a few examples.

The fact that the Habs' organization admitted not scouting the Q properly in the past and the fact the only 2 francophone players we could dress the last few weeks were Begin and Latendresse shows that the Habs organization has had very little consideration for a large segment of their fans and for any organization, this is never good business.

habfan4 11-21-2006 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatnik (Post 7127081)
A lot of people here hate french quebecers so those topics always turn very ugly.

A lot :shakehead that is complete ********. I can count on one hand the number of posters who make over the top statements (with regards to the language issue).

IcE ColD 11-21-2006 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AymanD (Post 7128028)
I can't wait til this thread gets ugly...


We gonna have ourselved a Old fashioned Ho-Down!!! HEEEEEEE HAAAAAW





*By the way, the thread starter make a very interesting point and this topic is actually pretty interesting. Too bad this thread will turn into a political demagogue discussion.






Quebec is a nation.

Discuss.

:eek:

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:


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