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HH 11-23-2006 05:00 PM

Better atmosphere in Habs locker room
 
Interesting article...I like!

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/217861.html

Joey 11-23-2006 05:08 PM

I Babelfished it and got the jist of it, really good read

sXe 11-23-2006 05:11 PM

Well Begin basically confirms there were cliques before and now they're gone. I'm glad Gainey go to be coach so he could see first hand what the atmosphere in the locker room was. I guess it paid off.

KaptainKourage* 11-23-2006 05:30 PM

We need to bring back Ladouce !!!

turnbuckle* 11-23-2006 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sXe (Post 7152842)
Well Begin basically confirms there were cliques before and now they're gone. I'm glad Gainey go to be coach so he could see first hand what the atmosphere in the locker room was. I guess it paid off.

I was glad he got to coach too, as I hoped it would give him a closeup view of life in the dressing room. not tht Claude et al wouldn't have been telling him, but sometimes it pays to see things for yourself.

tinyzombies 11-23-2006 05:54 PM

I dunno. None of the Russian veterans seem very happy.

Chemistry is great, but you also need the right players. But Carbo/Gainey have won enough times they know what to do and when to do it.

Dwight 11-23-2006 05:56 PM

Iss nice

laubelroc 11-23-2006 06:03 PM

quote
 
the best thing to bring a team together is win more than you lose.Thiswill solve any clique problemi garrentee3.

CareyPrice x 31 11-23-2006 07:30 PM

RDS cud have at least updated their pic of Bouillon. That pic has Gino Odjick in it.

e-e 11-23-2006 07:43 PM

great reading...the only thing is...i don't understand french :help:

Little Nilan 11-23-2006 07:57 PM

Are we allowed to translate full articles? I don't mind doing it for english posters, if it's not a copyright infrigement.

Dwight 11-23-2006 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaydee96 (Post 7153755)
RDS cud have at least updated their pic of Bouillon. That pic has Gino Odjick in it.


Looks liek Dandenault's #25 to me. I don't think we had Begin when we had Odjick

Turbo 11-23-2006 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded and Agrestic (Post 7153925)
Are we allowed to translate full articles? I don't mind doing it for english posters, if it's not a copyright infrigement.

translate the gist of it (paraphrase)... don't do it word for word. Since it's for criticism and the source has been cited & linked, paraphrasing it for anglophones should be covered under fair use.

Shabutie 11-23-2006 09:57 PM

Imagine if we could've added a guy like Shanahan instead of Samsonov (or Kovalev). Our team would be so tight. The only 4-5 guys that don't seem to show much team spirit imo are; Murray, Kovalev, Samsonov, Plekanec, Markov. The rest of the guys look like a family.

tinyzombies 11-23-2006 10:34 PM

Take the link and translate the page in babelfish.

CareyPrice x 31 11-23-2006 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad (Post 7154709)
Looks liek Dandenault's #25 to me. I don't think we had Begin when we had Odjick


lol, makes sence..

one to many beers for me today..was celebrating my Cowboys win with my neighbors family from Texas.

Little Nilan 11-23-2006 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7155065)
Imagine if we could've added a guy like Shanahan instead of Samsonov (or Kovalev). Our team would be so tight. The only 4-5 guys that don't seem to show much team spirit imo are; Murray, Kovalev, Samsonov, Plekanec, Markov. The rest of the guys look like a family.

No offense, but I don't think you should make an opinion based on entirely superficial evidence, you don't have a view of any kind into the Habs lockerrom I would guess. You can't even put in "imo" I'd say, as you can't have opinions on things you have no idea about. Personally, I haven't heard anything about Murray, Kovalev, Samsonov, Plekanec or Markov being disliked of their teammates or being bad in the lockerroom.

By the way, from a ressourcefull member of another site, Kovalev is part of the "Koivu crew". Something tells me though, that it's mainly of your profound distaste for him and yet another occasion to unreasonnably find a way to criticise Kovalev. Criticism is good mind you, but since I've been here(back before my new user) I'd say you filled up your post count with a nice collection of how you hate Kovalev.

Shabutie 11-23-2006 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded and Agrestic (Post 7155594)
No offense, but I don't think you should make an opinion based on entirely superficial evidence, you don't have a view of any kind into the Habs lockerrom I would guess. You can't even put in "imo" I'd say, as you can't have opinions on things you have no idea about. Personally, I haven't heard anything about Murray, Kovalev, Samsonov, Plekanec or Markov being disliked of their teammates or being bad in the lockerroom.

By the way, from a ressourcefull member of another site, Kovalev is part of the "Koivu crew". Something tells me though, that it's mainly of your profound distaste for him and yet another occasion to unreasonnably find a way to criticise Kovalev. Criticism is good mind you, but since I've been here(back before my new user) I'd say you filled up your post count with a nice collection of how you hate Kovalev.

Hate is an ugly word, I dislike the guy's game...He plays without emotion, and that's why imo he isn't a team guy. My saying that Kovalev and Sammy and Markov aren't team spirited guys, is just like anyone else saying that Ribeiro wasn't....No one really knows, it's just an opinion. I'd guess that if Kovalev stays here for his full contract, then there wasn't a problem with that.

The reason I say Sammy isn't a team spirited guy, is just because of how he dealt with the situation Carbs presented him when he said he'd play on the 4th line. In compairison to Downey who says "The team doesn't need any of us complaining" (I forget the exact quote but it's something along those lines) when he gets benched. From what I've seen though team work and team spirit seems similar to when Bob Gainey took over with an upgrade from Mike Johnson (Zednik/Bulis). I thought we looked horrible under Julien, but I haven't seen much change from this year than when Gainey took over...And I think it's because he and Carbo have a similar coaching technique.

hototogisu 11-23-2006 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7155065)
Imagine if we could've added a guy like Shanahan instead of Samsonov (or Kovalev). Our team would be so tight. The only 4-5 guys that don't seem to show much team spirit imo are; Murray, Kovalev, Samsonov, Plekanec, Markov. The rest of the guys look like a family.

That's ridiculous, who are you to say that by adding somebody (or subtracting someone else) it would make the team tighter? Just because Shanahan's been known as a leader elsewhere doesn't say anything about how much chemistry he would've had if he played here. And if you're going to rag on Kovalev like you always do, at least try to have some logic behind it other than "he has no emotion when he scores goals". Your shtick is getting really tired.

Little Nilan 11-23-2006 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7155761)
Hate is an ugly word, I dislike the guy's game...He plays without emotion, and that's why imo he isn't a team guy. My saying that Kovalev and Sammy and Markov aren't team spirited guys, is just like anyone else saying that Ribeiro wasn't....No one really knows, it's just an opinion. I'd guess that if Kovalev stays here for his full contract, then there wasn't a problem with that.

I think the main difference with the three and Ribeiro is the rumours surrounding the two. If there's one thing we know for sure it's that the locker room was divided, with two main "cliques", one lead by Koivu, one led by Theodore. We also know Dagenais fought with Rivet and Koivu with Ribeiro(no coincidence), we also know Ribeiro was benched by Julien for a lack of respect. Petrov also made an interesting statement in regards to the lockerrooms divide when he was traded. I also know the Capitals we'rent affraid to make public their distaste for Ribeiro's character. It's more then opinions when things like this happens, the worst thing we've seen from Kovalev was an inapropriate remark on Begin when both we're clearly mad with how the team was playing. I'll also say that I don't think Ribeiro was that bad in the lockerroom, people who've been near the team have told me the problem layed more with Theodore then Ribs. I don't agree with people talking about his off-ice antics either, the guy can do whatever he wants, no one has a right to say what he can and can't do.

That said, I think you like to play your role of "skeptic" here and I see from your posts you think everything people do has a self interest behind it. People like that have a lot of value, they tend to make people question themselves and show a different and real side of the story. Of course, I've seen some people be pissed off at your remarks but I can say that you're too smart to become a one trick pony(Kovalev-Samsonov-Ribeiro all the time).
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7155761)
The reason I say Sammy isn't a team spirited guy, is just because of how he dealt with the situation Carbs presented him when he said he'd play on the 4th line. In compairison to Downey who says "The team doesn't need any of us complaining" (I forget the exact quote but it's something along those lines) when he gets benched. From what I've seen though team work and team spirit seems similar to when Bob Gainey took over with an upgrade from Mike Johnson (Zednik/Bulis). I thought we looked horrible under Julien, but I haven't seen much change from this year than when Gainey took over...And I think it's because he and Carbo have a similar coaching technique.

Sammy's comments we're out of character, ask any Bruins fan about that, he's been a valuable member of their lockerroom for a long time. Before trading Thornton, the Bruins we're considered too "friendly" with each other. I think he was more or less disapointed with the situation, he needed time to adapt, he just signed a good contract and made a commitment to a team that lacks players like that. He could've gone to 5 different teams but chose what Montreal had to offer. That shows a lot about his character I would think. We all know Shanahan wanted a challenge, but you have to make concessions sometimes. I just hope the Fans let Sammy play his game, he's working hard, he just isn't that good.

About Gainey/Carbonneau, I couldn't agree more.

Shabutie 11-24-2006 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded and Agrestic (Post 7155919)
I think the main difference with the three and Ribeiro is the rumours surrounding the two. If there's one thing we know for sure it's that the locker room was divided, with two main "cliques", one lead by Koivu, one led by Theodore. We also know Dagenais fought with Rivet and Koivu with Ribeiro(no coincidence), we also know Ribeiro was benched by Julien for a lack of respect. Petrov also made an interesting statement in regards to the lockerrooms divide when he was traded. I also know the Capitals we'rent affraid to make public their distaste for Ribeiro's character. It's more then opinions when things like this happens, the worst thing we've seen from Kovalev was an inapropriate remark on Begin when both we're clearly mad with how the team was playing. I'll also say that I don't think Ribeiro was that bad in the lockerroom, people who've been near the team have told me the problem layed more with Theodore then Ribs. I don't agree with people talking about his off-ice antics either, the guy can do whatever he wants, no one has a right to say what he can and can't do.

We've also seen Higgins and Komisarek fight...Not that it means much. I'm not denying that there were the 3 amigos, but once we got rid of Theo and Dags and Julien, I think the team looked the same as it does now, exept for Johnson being a much better guy in the locker room than Bulis or Zednik (I'm forming this based on interviews from the locker room, where Johnson is making jokes with the guys and whatnot).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded and Agrestic
That said, I think you like to play your role of "skeptic" here and I see from your posts you think everything people do has a self interest behind it. People like that have a lot of value, they tend to make people question themselves and show a different and real side of the story. Of course, I've seen some people be pissed off at your remarks but I can say that you're too smart to become a one trick pony(Kovalev-Samsonov-Ribeiro all the time).

I enjoy making remarks about Kovalev, because I love how many fanboys he has on these boards and how offended they get by the minor "insult" to him. As for Samsonov, I've never poked fun at the guy...I think he's a good player, but he's uneeded on this team (far too similar to guys like Perz and Kovalev, doesn't bring anything new to the team).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded and Agrestic
Sammy's comments we're out of character, ask any Bruins fan about that, he's been a valuable member of their lockerroom for a long time. Before trading Thornton, the Bruins we're considered too "friendly" with each other. I think he was more or less disapointed with the situation, he needed time to adapt, he just signed a good contract and made a commitment to a team that lacks players like that. He could've gone to 5 different teams but chose what Montreal had to offer. That shows a lot about his character I would think. We all know Shanahan wanted a challenge, but you have to make concessions sometimes. I just hope the Fans let Sammy play his game, he's working hard, he just isn't that good.

About Gainey/Carbonneau, I couldn't agree more.

I think Sammy could be a great player for us...if he was split up from his russian butt buddy. The chemistry is there, but neither finish their passes and often make plays well after they've disappeared, thus leading to turnovers.

Shabutie 11-24-2006 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hototogisu (Post 7155905)
That's ridiculous, who are you to say that by adding somebody (or subtracting someone else) it would make the team tighter? Just because Shanahan's been known as a leader elsewhere doesn't say anything about how much chemistry he would've had if he played here. And if you're going to rag on Kovalev like you always do, at least try to have some logic behind it other than "he has no emotion when he scores goals". Your shtick is getting really tired.

Why do you think I keep those posts coming? Cuz you guys are very easy to get all worked up. Don't mention the word Chemistry and Kovalev in the same sentence por favor. The guy has pretty much 0 chemistry with anyone on the team other than Koivu and it's pretty much always been that way. I'm quite sure that Shanny would've fit in PERFECTLY with the guys here, as he's very similar to Souray, Rivet, Johnson and more. He probably wouldn't have 17 goals but he'd definitely be good for team work and in the locker room.

Catch-22 11-24-2006 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7155065)
The only 4-5 guys that don't seem to show much team spirit imo are; Murray, Kovalev, Samsonov, Plekanec, Markov. The rest of the guys look like a family.


I think the central message of this article contradicts that.

Selon Bégin, il n'y a rien qui puisse venir de l'extérieur pour déconcentrer l'équipe. Sans nommer personne, les départs de Pierre Dagenais, José Théodore, Richard Zednik, Jan Bulis et Mike Ribeiro ont eu pour effet d'améliorer l'atmosphère dans l'équipe.

«Il n'y a plus de cliques, ajoute le fougueux attaquant. Au restaurant, tout le monde se mêle. Comme une famille.




Translation:
The departure of [insert player names] and Mike Ribeiro had the effect of improving the atmosphere around the team.

"There are no more cliques", Begin said. "At the restaurant, everybody gets along. Like a family."



Use of the word "everybody" suggests to me the inclusion of Kovalev, Samsonov and Plekanec. I am inclined to believe that Steve Begin then considers these guys part of the positive environment.

Shabutie, while I often enjoy reading your posts, I am hoping yhou can clarify something for me. I recall quite well that you were one of the most vocal defenders of Mike Ribeiro, who was well known to be the ring leader of the cancerous Ribeiro/Theodore/Dagenais clique. Doesn't that make criticism of guys like Kovalev a little shaky?

That is not to say that I disagree with you with regards to the contributions of some of the players you mentioned. Samsonov and Murray are clearly big disappointments so far. I will continue to believe that Plekanec's critics are simply too far ahead of themselves. Anyway, sorry to be a critic again.

Lestriker 11-24-2006 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7156040)
Why do you think I keep those posts coming? Cuz you guys are very easy to get all worked up.

Ribeiro is garbage.

Capitano 11-24-2006 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7156040)
Why do you think I keep those posts coming? Cuz you guys are very easy to get all worked up. Don't mention the word Chemistry and Kovalev in the same sentence por favor. The guy has pretty much 0 chemistry with anyone on the team other than Koivu and it's pretty much always been that way. I'm quite sure that Shanny would've fit in PERFECTLY with the guys here, as he's very similar to Souray, Rivet, Johnson and more. He probably wouldn't have 17 goals but he'd definitely be good for team work and in the locker room.

I usually give people the benefit of the doubt. Some people just have guys they love to bash I guess. For me it's Ryder, but I can admit when I see him play a good game. I like Kovalev, imo he IS a leader on this team. Just because he doesn't smile he's not a team player? If you ask me, he's a professional. If he celebrates it's because it meant something to him. In the playoffs he becomes a different animal and that's exactly what we need. What's the point of him being a floater - scoring 80-100 points and being a -20? He backchecks, he hits more than he has in the past, AND he volunteered to play center when we needed one.

You don't have to like the guy, but like it or not he's a big part of this team. And he will perform when the chips are down. I'd bet on it ;)

Lastly, the Russians might seem to be "closer" to each other than the rest of the team but I don't think it has distanced themselves from the rest of the boys. Of course all our posts are opinions and most of the posts have zero credibility, just observations. Imo, Kovy is a team guy and big part of our team.

Cap


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