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-   -   Hainsey, Hossa, Komi, Gainey, etc... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=31591)

Joe Malone 11-27-2003 06:25 PM

Hainsey, Hossa, Komi, Gainey, etc...
 
http://www.habsworld.net/show_article.php?id=169

A "must read" for those who have a problem with Gainey and his handling of our prospects.

Habs4Life 11-27-2003 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Malone
http://www.habsworld.net/show_article.php?id=169

A "must read" for those who have a problem with Gainey and his handling of our prospects.

Good read!!!!!!!!

Team_Spirit 11-27-2003 07:07 PM

That's the kind of things only few understand , those media who bash the team everytime they can. :shakehead

it's really a 'must read'

hosehead 11-27-2003 08:18 PM

Thanks for posting the link , Joe!!! I really like the way the article is written (some posters in this forum could learn something from the writing & ideas).

I like the idea that Gainey "interviewed" the young players, he needs to know what these guys are about. Imagine the amount of players Gainey has seen come & go as a player, coach & manager -- he knows what he's looking for & he knows what it takes to win. There has to be a "Canadiens" way of doing things that determines the identity of the team on the ice & the organization as a whole. Lets give Gainey a chance to find out who fits & who doesn't -- then lets decide if he's doing a good job.

The Habs didn't become a lousy team overnite ... The Habs aren't going to become a Stanley Cup contender overnite either.

Démon Blond 11-27-2003 08:55 PM

Excellent article, thanks for the link! :handclap:

Munchausen 11-27-2003 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Malone
http://www.habsworld.net/show_article.php?id=169

A "must read" for those who have a problem with Gainey and his handling of our prospects.

Thanks for the link to this article Joe Malone. It does put a few things into perspective.

A few comments of my own...

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wiens
It is reported in various sources already, mostly in Ottawa, that the Hossa clan is not happy with Marcel playing on the wing.

This line struck me in this article and triggered a few questions in my mind. Anyone knows a bit more about this (maybe people living in Ottawa)? What is this Hossa clan? Can we join it? :D Is it Marcel himself? His brother? (I kind of vaguely remember someone on this board saying Marcel's brother Marian telling a buddy he didn't like the fact Montreal were playing him on the wing). Or is it his family? His agent? Fans? Journalists? Would this come as news to the Habs organization and I wonder if they're going to do something about it (ie try him at center for the 1st time in the AHL).

Also, I will not argue about Hainsey's maturity level as it's what struck me the most when I heard him talk in interviews for the 1st time. He does sound full of himself and thinking he has "arrived" when he barely showed he could play in this league yet. It's a big concern I have with him who makes me wonder just what we can expect from him in the future. Hossa is a bit more of an enigma to me. He seems to work hard on the ice, however, this maturity that could not be present yet could be as shallow as saying he lacks confidence (which I think he does) and as deep as saying he wants to be sucessful for others more than for himself right now which might add tons of "bad" pressure keeping him from blossoming. He comes from a hockey family, his brother's a superstar to who he's always compared. He seems like he did not find an identity as a hockey player just yet. We'll see what comes out of it, but it might be true that what's best for Hossa would be to gain maturity and find himself in the minors, over an extended period of time. This might sound weird to some, but Hossa has always struck me as the kind of kid who will need some kind of mentor to blossom into a decent hockey player and gain the confidence needed. I don't think he has it in him just yet. Maybe that mentor could be Jarvis. I sure hope for him.

Finally, this article talks mainly about player's character and attitude. Five prospects of ours always seemed to have some to burn to me from what I read from them (interviews and what not) and that's why I was always very high on them at a very early stage of their careers, even before seeing some of them play, and before they showed if they could make it or not. Those were Komisarek, Higgins, Ward, Ryder and Ferland. So far, they're showing that their character, dedication, will to learn and work ethic are keeping them one step ahead of other players with more raw skills. I think this is the most underrated aspect some posters here or even journalists overlook when evaluating/projecting a prospect's future, as this has to be the key in every success story we'll hear about them. This should be a #1 priority when drafting all those kids full of potential because it at least guarantees they will fight as hard as they can to overcome some adversity they maybe didn't expect to meet when arriving at the pro level. I beleive all those five players will be keys to our success in a short to long term because of that very aspect, and I also suspect it to be the main reason for the lack of success of a lot of other very talented kids that maybe didn't have what it took mentally to compete and perform at such a high level.

In the end however, I will agree that if there's a man that can detect the proper amount of character/maturity needed in our prospects to become important parts of our team, it's likely Bob Gainey.

Habsolution 11-27-2003 11:27 PM

Hainsey might not be the most mature guy out there but he was playing well before we replaced him with Bouillon when the cube came back from his injury. There was no reason to do that and I stand by my opinion that it was injustified. After he came back Hainsey looked disinterested and/or lost confidence. Both signs of a lack of maturity. Maybe he didn't have the "I'll work even harder when I come back so the coach can't healthy scratch me anymore" mentality that Bouillon possesses. Which is wrong but he should not have been scratched in the first place as we he was playing well. A major part of the blame falls on Hainsey's shoulders here but a small part of it also falls on CJ's ones IMO.

As for Hossa I just don't see what people are talking about. Maybe I'm blinded by my bias toward youth but I always thought he was one of our hardest worker and one of the first guy to go into the corners and take punishement to try to dig the puck out of it. I'll be the first one to agree he was unsuccesful since 99% of the time this hard work amounted to nothing as his record indicates. But then maybe just maybe the conclusion we can draw from this is that he wasn't used properly ? Maybe his game is more suited for the center position since he played his junior career there ? Why was he never given a chance to play there ? You can't really expect a prospect that is not as mature as you thought he was to be as good as he could be in a position he is not familiar with.

So how immature are they ? Do they pee in sand traps when the habs go golfing ? Do they go out on trips without warning the organization ? Are they being self-centered a la Donald Audette ? When they get scartched do they say "I tend to look at hockey as a normal job sometimes" a la Yannic Perreault ? How exactly immature are they ? What exactly do they say or do to be immature ?

As for Hainsey's nightlife rumours and Hossa's family being unhappy about the way the habs play Hossa they are just that rumours. I think it's rather weak to use message boards rumours to give more credence to an argument. All Gainey said was that they weren't as mature as he thought they were. To bring up rumours that they go out too often, are undisciplined and think more highly of their family's opinion than the coach's one is crossing the line. Even though Wiens said he didn't want to put words in a GM's mouth he certainly let his reader's imagination run wild.

That being said I have a lot of faith in Gainey. He has done all the right things so far and I am confident he'll keep doing what's right for the franchise. But he is human and he isn't perfect. Of course he has more hockey knowledge than any of us put together but that's what message boards are for. Discussing about what you think the organization is doing right and what you think they aren't doing right.


Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wiens
Think we are done rebuilding? Guess again. We have barely even started.

Indeed. The way things are shaping up we're not contending for the cup anytime soon.

Bud The Spud* 11-28-2003 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej
That's the kind of things only few understand , those media who bash the team everytime they can. :shakehead

it's really a 'must read'

Yeah, the media are great team bashers. :mad:

Darz 11-28-2003 03:40 AM

Great article. Gives a little insight into what Gainey deals with. Too many people think that hockey management is like running a fantasy hockey team.

Joe Cole 11-28-2003 04:35 AM

Good article, but....spell the names correctly!! It takes away a lot of credibility when the author consistantly spells Michael Ryder incorrectly. M-I-C-H-A-E-L. Pet peeve, it is my name too.

Habsolution!!
I do bellieve that your youth orientation has coloured your vision. Hossa has not shown he is ready for regular duty in the NHL. I do not agree that he is hungry and wins one on one battles. I haven't seen three good shifts in a row, not even in the AHL games that were televised.

When I used to see his name and stats when he was in Seattle (with Balej) I used to drool and wonder when he would dominate the Habs line up. Then I saw him play in person. What a let down.

He doesn't seem to have the size that his charts says he does. He does not have the pitbull tenacity that some people say he does. There is no prospect that I am more disappointed with, because there was no prospect that I thought the Habs needed more. A big center that could play hard and score.

I waited and waited for him. Then....like a flat glass of Coke, he just let me down.

Let's hope that Jarvis does become his mentor and salvages Hossa as Munchausen proposed.

habsfansam 11-28-2003 05:23 AM

Habsolution,

Did Hainsey outplay Bouillon?? I'd say no. A kid with so much talent, yet he seems to have the same disease that Mike Ribiero had when he first rolled into camp after a 169pt season... "i'm a hockey god... i can play however i want any other time than the postseason cause, like whatever man... postseason is cool, but i don't want to work hard to get there." He looked like crap! Hainsey has all the tools and maybe for 10seconds a game we see him skate hard, give up the body to make the pass, take out his man along the boards... Bouillon gives up about 5 inches and 20lbs to Hainsey and does all these things more consistently. If you are Jose Theodore, who do you want in front of you? The opposition because your d-man is lazy, or an undersized d-man. Choose, and astound me.

As for Hossa, or any other habs prospect that Gainey calls immature, i don't think i could disagree with him. Solid pros are guys who can give a decent interview cause they can think the game above the cliches... guys who won't give up, guys who can score not because god gave them a wicked wrister, and a huge frame but because they know when to head to the net, stick on ice, and pull the trigger... its a simple game when you play it right. I've met Marcel on a couple of occaissions and he's a nice kid... but he definitely does not exude calm confidence, and maturity. Anyone who says he doesn't work hard is full of ****, but he definitely needs to spend some time growing up as a person. I can't see how Hainsey is any different in that respect, right down to the sullen expression on his face when he does play.

As for prospects that i think have a great attitude, i'd have to say ward, ryder, komi, perezhogin, plekanec, kastitsyn, ferland.... i add the two russians because those guys know they have to earn everything they get, especially since it gets beat into them in the RSL.

Anyhow, good luck to BG, and lay off of CJ... "a major part of the blame falls on Hainsey's shoulders here but a small part of it also falls on CJ's ones IMO." You think you know more about how Hainsey was playing than Julien?? Are you his defense partner?... Rick Green maybe?? Let CJ do his job without being blamed for benching a guy that BG seems to think shouldn't even be playing in the NHL right now.

goalchenyuk 11-28-2003 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Malone
http://www.habsworld.net/show_article.php?id=169

A "must read" for those who have a problem with Gainey and his handling of our prospects.

really good report ; a must !

hope that it 's going to stop the 10000000 posts by day of those fans who want half of the farm team up to the big league !

and HABSOLUTION ; '' Hainsey might not be the most mature guy out there but he was playing well before we replaced him with Bouillon ''

all the team was playing well the first games , than after we know how it's turned .So may be Hainsey was playing well , but it's more easy to play when the team is leading 4 to 1 .It 's when the team started loosing that it was clear that Hainsey didn't have enought to give to stay on the ice ...

Dutchy 11-28-2003 08:47 AM

Yeah, a GREAT article. The thing I'm really eager to see Gainey do is the contract signings. We gave WAY too much to players like Rivet, and with Ribeiro's contract due a below average GM would overpay him. Can't wait to see how Gainey will negociate.

tinyzombies 11-28-2003 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchy
Yeah, a GREAT article. The thing I'm really eager to see Gainey do is the contract signings. We gave WAY too much to players like Rivet, and with Ribeiro's contract due a below average GM would overpay him. Can't wait to see how Gainey will negociate.

They way he passes off rumor as possible proof is a bit iffy, but I happen to agree with him anyway. There was a story on here not too long ago about Hainsey and Hossa in a bar with Komisarek there too and Leo DiCaprio.

Apparently Komisarek was being mellow, but the other two were partying it up and bringing home girls and stuff.

That's EXACTLY what I'd be doing if I were with the Habs tho! lol

Anyway. Maybe Gainey wants to keep Komisarek and Hainsey separated? Hainsey does not seem to have benefited from hanging around with Komi. Maybe he wants to send him down to watch Dykhuis and maybe learn a lesson. If a guy like Dykhuis can be in the minors...

Maybe that's the only reason Dykhuis is down there?

Corey 11-28-2003 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habsfansam
Habsolution,

As for prospects that i think have a great attitude, i'd have to say ward, ryder, komi, perezhogin, plekanec, kastitsyn, ferland.... i add the two russians because those guys know they have to earn everything they get, especially since it gets beat into them in the RSL.

Not Higgins as well?


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