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-   -   Time to swap Straka and Prucha on the top 2 lines... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=316577)

JR#9* 11-29-2006 11:04 AM

Time to swap Straka and Prucha on the top 2 lines...
 
if this team really wants to balance out the attack this is a move that is just screaming to be made when you look at the personel on the team at this point in time.

Ideally you'd like to get a true playmaking #2 center that allowed Cullen to be moved down to the 3rd but for now that isn't the reality of the situation so we have to juggle lines to make the most sense of what we have and that simply isn't being done at this point.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with the Jagr line and Straka has been on fire but for the sake of trying to form to scoring lines a move has to be made.

Straka despite his recent goalscoring is primarily a playmaker and one who is going to handle the puck and also has the abilty to lug the puck up ice and gain the zone...both attributes that are sorely lacking on the current 2nd line.

Prucha is a sniper, a guy who is tenacious at chasing down the puck and finding open ice to convert setups around the goal.He is not a puckhandler/carrier.

The Nylander-Jagr combo both are guys who like to handle and carry the puck.They too like Straka are primarily setup men who both have the ability to lug the puck up ice and gain the zone.What these two lack and need from that 3rd member is the guy who gets in on the forecheck and causes the turnovers much like Staka/Prucha both do.

Cullen-Shanny are both very much shoot first guys, very little playmaking ability and niether of them are puckcarriers who are able to either lug the puck to gain the zone nor handle it in tight quaters on the cycle.

So at the end of the day it is just idiotic to not try and make this switch because a)the team needs some sort of shakeup and b)it is dripping with logic

Put the stuggling sniper with the 2 best plamakers and put the best playmaking/puckcarring winger not named Jagr with the 2nd line center and winger whose mentality is shoot,shoot and shoot some more.

Between not even trying the above change and his refusal to change onything on the PP, especially when it comes to getting both Straka-Roszival off the point Renney is proving to be pretty stubborn in his approach to finding the right combo's.

94now 11-29-2006 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR#9 (Post 7205447)
if this team really wants to balance out the attack this is a move that is just screaming to be made when you look at the personel on the team at this point in time.

Ideally you'd like to get a true playmaking #2 center that allowed Cullen to be moved down to the 3rd but for now that isn't the reality of the situation so we have to juggle lines to make the most sense of what we have and that simply isn't being done at this point.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with the Jagr line and Straka has been on fire but for the sake of trying to form to scoring lines a move has to be made.

Straka despite his recent goalscoring is primarily a playmaker and one who is going to handle the puck and also has the abilty to lug the puck up ice and gain the zone...both attributes that are sorely lacking on the current 2nd line.

Prucha is a sniper, a guy who is tenacious at chasing down the puck and finding open ice to convert setups around the goal.He is not a puckhandler/carrier.

The Nylander-Jagr combo both are guys who like to handle and carry the puck.They too like Straka are primarily setup men who both have the ability to lug the puck up ice and gain the zone.What these two lack and need from that 3rd member is the guy who gets in on the forecheck and causes the turnovers much like Staka/Prucha both do.

Cullen-Shanny are both very much shoot first guys, very little playmaking ability and niether of them are puckcarriers who are able to either lug the puck to gain the zone nor handle it in tight quaters on the cycle.

So at the end of the day it is just idiotic to not try and make this switch because a)the team needs some sort of shakeup and b)it is dripping with logic

Put the stuggling sniper with the 2 best plamakers and put the best playmaking/puckcarring winger not named Jagr with the 2nd line center and winger whose mentality is shoot,shoot and shoot some more.

Between not even trying the above change and his refusal to change onything on the PP, especially when it comes to getting both Straka-Roszival off the point Renney is proving to be pretty stubborn in his approach to finding the right combo's.

That would benefit Prucha, no doubt. He will be much more efficient in cycling game the 1st line plays. I'm not so sure about Straka, though. He may be used on the breakaways since 2nd line do not keep the sustained pressure of the 1st one. He could be better used as 2C, while Cullen used as a wing. It worth to try, however.

BigE 11-29-2006 03:28 PM

I see what you're saying JR, and I don't necessarily disagree, I just have my reservations of breaking up our only clicking line. Right now we've got the top first line in the league, and it's doing us well.

If we can focus on our defensive game, I don't think from whom the 3-4 goals we're getting per game will be much of an issue.

Edit: just noticed I said "right now" 3 times. :eek

polako 11-29-2006 03:58 PM

Straka does not deserve a demotion. He's been on a tear, and so has that line since last season.

I would recommend getting Prucha some PP time with the top unit or getting him a playmaking center for the 2nd line

BobMarleyNYR 11-29-2006 04:08 PM

I was saying the same thing in September. I say trade Cullen and Kaspar (or Rachunek) for a second line center.

Finest 11-29-2006 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polako (Post 7208244)
Straka does not deserve a demotion. He's been on a tear, and so has that line since last season.

I would recommend getting Prucha some PP time with the top unit or getting him a playmaking center for the 2nd line

Exactly what I was going to say, if he was given some PP time and was able to start stringing along some goals on the PP it would most likley translate to his play on his 5 on 5 line. A play making center wouldnt hurt either, but using what the currently have I think #1 PP mins would do better.

JR#9* 11-29-2006 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polako (Post 7208244)
Straka does not deserve a demotion. He's been on a tear, and so has that line since last season.

I would recommend getting Prucha some PP time with the top unit or getting him a playmaking center for the 2nd line

So who sits on the 1st PP unit to get him some PP time, Shanny?:dunno:

And I stated the obvious and most attractive course of action would to acquire a 2nd line playmaker but that is a hell of alot easier said then done so going by what we CURRENTLY have I see this as the best bet to maximize our balance amoung the scoring lines.

And I wouldn't call it a demotion for Straka but rather filling in where he best serves his teams objectives.It's not like he still wouldn't be at almost 20 minutes a game anyway.

True Blue 11-29-2006 07:31 PM

I think that you are right, JR
 
I always said that Straka could play center in a pinch. I'd say that the pinching situation has been reached. Cullen is simply not doing it as a 2nd line center and Betts does nothing for even the possibility of offense from the 3rd line. Moving them both down a line should at least be tried.

tedtroll 11-29-2006 08:07 PM

What about defense?
 
Straka provides great help on the defensive end when 1st line is on the ice. His speed and consistent hustle negates alot of odd man rushes against. I think Prucha is defensively responsible but doesn't have the speed that Straka does. Straka allows Jagr to cheat a little bit by staying behind the play. I don't think he can get away with that as much with Prucha.

Son of Steinbrenner 11-29-2006 08:17 PM

If it were me I'd consider just swapping Nylander and Cullen. I think you can hide Cullens um how should i say it...lack of scoring abilty on a line with Jagr and Straka plus his speed combined with Strakas speed might be a nice combo..

I think Nylander (a pass first guy) would find a nice home playing with Shanny and Prucha...

MisterUnspoken 11-29-2006 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedtroll (Post 7210667)
Straka provides great help on the defensive end when 1st line is on the ice. His speed and consistent hustle negates alot of odd man rushes against. I think Prucha is defensively responsible but doesn't have the speed that Straka does. Straka allows Jagr to cheat a little bit by staying behind the play. I don't think he can get away with that as much with Prucha.

I agree with this post. It doesn't "drip with logic" at all. In fact I think it screws up the top line in the hopes that conjecture proves to be truth. Who says Prucha would score more... he certainly may -- but instead of putting a band-aid on a gushing wound -- maybe we should just trade for a 2nd line center.

BigE 11-30-2006 12:10 AM

I don't like the idea of moving Nylander down, at all. In fact, as I stated earlier, I don't like the idea of breaking up the top line in the NHL just to balance some scoring. As long as they're still putting up points, I'm not sure there is a reason to separate them. What happens if you drop a guy and then we have no scoring from either of our top two lines?

This organization has some other options, and it needs to abandon that "look outside first" mentality. Immo has 8 points in his last 9 games, and is 23. It's getting to be "now" for him. He IS an option.

Inferno 11-30-2006 03:22 AM

its 430am and i need to get to bed, i havent read anything here except for the title, so if im totally off base, excuse me, im just too tired to read.

should we swap the 2?
probably, it makes more sense, but the problem is, the first line just clicks...i mean, REALLY clicks.

anytime you try to break em up to get more offense, you just go back to them in a game or 2.

i dont see why we even bother changing it up, they are fine together, so lets leave it at that.

lotus 11-30-2006 04:34 AM

Renney would never do it unless the first line was doing terrible. But id like to see it done, alot. Id just be surprised if it happened anytime soon.

Fletch 11-30-2006 08:00 AM

I'm torn, JR...
 
I think that if you swap the two, the net result is an increase in overall net goals. One thing I've noticed about Prucha is that he tries to beat guys one-on-one too much and overhandles the puck. He's not a very good puckhandler at all. He's a very good shooter, however, and instead of beating guys one-on-one, he should be shooting, or just getting the puck deep. Perhaps playing with Jagr will help him out here, but does Prucha then become a player that's very one-dimensional who relies on Jagr? That's my concern.

I understand the chemistry concerns, buit if Straka is truly hot, then perhaps he can re-ignite the second line (i.e., Cullen, and to a lesser extent, Shanny, who's starting to look tired (I wonder why?). Prucha's not helping that line much. He's not getting off good shots, and he doesn't help much with carrying the puck. On Jagr's line, Prucha doesn't have to carry the puck much and has more room to skate and get into scoring position. Further, having a right-handed shot on the left wing is more advantageous to field Jagr's passes from the right wing and elsewhere. EDIT: I do believe Straka is a better fit on that line than Prucha. It think you'll see them play a better puck-possession game with Straka.

So, you can see why I'm torn. I think it helps the team overall, especially in the short term, but I'm not sure what it does to Prucha. He was a more active player while not playing with Jagr last season, but more productive while playing with him. It's a dilly of a pickle to be in.

JR#9* 11-30-2006 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken (Post 7210893)
I agree with this post. It doesn't "drip with logic" at all. In fact I think it screws up the top line in the hopes that conjecture proves to be truth. Who says Prucha would score more... he certainly may -- but instead of putting a band-aid on a gushing wound -- maybe we should just trade for a 2nd line center.

For the 100th time of course the best course of action would be to trade for a 2nd line center but there just aren't any available as the need for 2nd line centers throughout the NHL is the #2 need in the league behind a top pairing d-man...there simply are none available at this time so rather then calling for something that's isn't an option at this time how about we propose something that at least has a chance at happening at this point in time until something on the trade front breaks as the year goes on.

Fletch 11-30-2006 08:01 AM

Nylander moving down..
 
is a bad idea. Cullen's a third line center/winger playing second line center. Nylander's a second line center playing top line. Switch Cullen and Nylander and you really put Cullen out of position. He's not a top line playmaker. Heck, he's not much of a playmaker at all. He generates scoring chances off his speed. He's a third liner. Not much Renney can do about that.

chosen 11-30-2006 08:05 AM

We don't need to alter our first line when it may be the best line in hockey. Don't fix something that isn't broken. We need to upgrade our other lines.

JR#9* 11-30-2006 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 7213603)
We don't need to alter our first line when it may be the best line in hockey. Don't fix something that isn't broken. We need to upgrade our other lines.

And how do you upgarde the other lines when the trades aren't out there to be made and 75% of the league is looking for 2nd line scoring???:banghead:

Answer---you manage the assets you have to formulate the best, most balanced, effective lineup you can.

We were a one line team last year...how that work out for us?

And why does everyone think that the 1st line will suffer some significant dropoff if Prucha were moved to LW instead of Straka?

Somehow I think Nyls-Jagr will find a way to thrive.

J-Dawg 11-30-2006 08:41 AM

I guess we CAN talk about this forever...


Let's see what we established: The Straka/Nylander/Jagr line is golden, Cullen needs to be pushed down to the 3rd line, thus we need a second line center. The names have been discussed from Nieuwendyk, to Morrison, to Comrie, etc etc etc. And probably the only player we could acquire that would be inserted with Jagr/Straka on the top line and push Nylander down to the 2nd line would be their fellow countryman and Jagr fav David Vyborny. So with Columbus having it's usual season, maybe he's the guy we should try to go after, what would you all think of the following lines:

Straka-Vyborny-Jagr (or flop Straka/Vyborny) - THE CZECH LINE! :yo:
Prucha-Nylander-Shanny

The 3rd and 4th lines could also be debated furthermore than this topic but you'd likely keep Betts/Ward together (4th line) and pair Cullen/Hall together (3rd line) and insert Hollweg & Hossa/Orts giving us 4 legitimate lines that could get consistant PT.

Now I'm sure people would think this is an awesome idea, and others who would just completely hate it, but we can't please everybody. And besides, this really means nothing unless the Rangers follow through and acquire somebody anyway...

:teach:

BigE 11-30-2006 01:05 PM

We're just past the quarter mark, which means we've got time to make adjustments. Why fix something that isn't broken? Rather you can try adding a guy like Immonen into that 2nd line role, and see how he fits. If that doesn't work, and a trade isn't available just after the Christmas break, then maybe you make a swap.

JR#9* 11-30-2006 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigE (Post 7215996)
We're just past the quarter mark, which means we've got time to make adjustments. Why fix something that isn't broken? Rather you can try adding a guy like Immonen into that 2nd line role, and see how he fits. If that doesn't work, and a trade isn't available just after the Christmas break, then maybe you make a swap.


Everyone keeps saying don't try and fix what isn't broke but you guys have tomember this is a hockey TEAM, not the Jagr line show and when the TEAM has only one line yet again that can be counted on for consistent scoring then guess what guess...it is broke and needs addressing!!!

Sather Hater 11-30-2006 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigE (Post 7212628)
I don't like the idea of moving Nylander down, at all. In fact, as I stated earlier, I don't like the idea of breaking up the top line in the NHL just to balance some scoring. As long as they're still putting up points, I'm not sure there is a reason to separate them. What happens if you drop a guy and then we have no scoring from either of our top two lines?

This organization has some other options, and it needs to abandon that "look outside first" mentality. Immo has 8 points in his last 9 games, and is 23. It's getting to be "now" for him. He IS an option.

I agree 100%.

BigE 11-30-2006 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR#9 (Post 7216028)
Everyone keeps saying don't try and fix what isn't broke but you guys have tomember this is a hockey TEAM, not the Jagr line show and when the TEAM has only one line yet again that can be counted on for consistent scoring then guess what guess...it is broke and needs addressing!!!

I'm fairly confident that everyone realizes this is a "hockey TEAM."

As I said, there are other problems that seem to be costing us games right now: our defense and the power play's efficiency are the two most prominent.

If you try to fix something that isn't broken (that would be our overall goal production, in particular our 5 on 5 goal production), you could very well end up with three major problems as opposed to two.

There are other solutions to this problem that have not been exhausted yet, so why bother making a move in haste?

Don't panic.

Fletch 11-30-2006 02:34 PM

Isn't second line scoring...
 
a bit broken, as well as bottom two lines? The top line ain't, but one can argue that most of that is created from Jagr, and that Straka and Nylander, unlike last season, are burying their chances. Additionally, one can argue that the top line wouldn't suffer any chemistry issues with Prucha since he has had success there in the past and does mesh in well. And the second line, which hasn't scored in I don't know how long, could only do better.

I don't always agree with 'ain't broke, don't fix'. You still find ways to improve. If the top line stays the same and the second line gets an additional goal, it's improved. And as mentioned, assuming Jagr continues skating like it has been, I'd guess that the top line at worse stays constant. It's not a guarantee, but nothing is.


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