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FireItup 12-11-2006 06:03 AM

Flames Out Scoring Oilers
 
Before the season started every one was talking about how the Oilers would be the highest scoring team with all their offensive talent and depth, while the Flames just don't have enough talent to score enough goals cause were a team full of grinders.
(So here I was before the season was under way...worried about my Flames because the Oilers are so stacked with offensive talent, just hoping the Iginla line will rack up some goals and our D + Kipper would shut teams down)

Well as of today the Flames(and their grinders)have a better goals for average then the Oilers.
Oilers Goals For average is 2.79
Flames Goals For average is 2.81


I got to say I'm really impressed with the Flames secondary scoring and particularly Lombardi's play this year, He's creating so many chances out there cause he's so FAST! I think he just might be the fastest skater in the league right now!
P.S.
Oilers Goals Against 2.58
Flames Goals Against 2.33
GO :flames

abracanada 12-11-2006 08:05 AM

Stats like that have a funny way of disappearing during a hot streak. I think, with the Flames going on the road here shortly, the lead will fade offensively and rather quickly.

Cactus Jack 12-11-2006 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracanada (Post 7320795)
Stats like that have a funny way of disappearing during a hot streak. I think, with the Flames going on the road here shortly, the lead will fade offensively and rather quickly.


You're right - those stats can be tweaked and can change quickly, but the fact that they are close to the Oilers is a good sign for the team offensively. They weren't suppose to be even close to the Oilers. Whereas the Flames are much better defensively and are in fact tied with Dallas as having given up the least amount of goals this year!!



GO FLAMES GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Rudolf Yaber 12-11-2006 02:02 PM

Being in Edmonton I got a good look at what the city thought of the Oilers before the season. Honestly, some of their expectations of some of the players was very inflated. Pisani for instance, after his playoff run everyone was expecting a 30 goal year (and from the third line). Expectations of Stoll were really high as well. I actually expected more out of Lupul, but there is another where expectations vastly exceeded performance.

I do have to say though that I am impressed with Lombardi this year. I was afraid he was going to be one of those "lifelong potential" kind of guys.

I'd better be careful with my expectations, though. He's not going to win the Art Ross ;)

copperandblue 12-11-2006 02:26 PM

I don't see this as a great statistic to indicate that the Flames are scoring more than expected. Atleast not in the sense that Calgary has suddenly put to rest the concerns that people had with them.

If anything, I would say it's more of an statement about how Edmonton is coming up short in the goal scoring department more than anything else. Which I am sure makes everyone in Calgary just as happy anyways but that's besides the point...

Back to Calgary...

They are 11th out of 16 in Western Conference scoring so for starters I don't think Edmonton is the bench mark to which Calgary should really be judged.

In addition, the big critisism against Calgary heading into the season was that they had no secondary scoring with their forwards and looking at the numbers suggests that this is exactly the case.

Of Calgary's 76 Goals, 15 have been from the blueline and of the 61 goals scored by the forwards, 30 have been from the top line.

So does having 50% of your forward scoring coming from a single forward line really demonstrate scoring depth? I wouldn't think so.

Lunatik* 12-11-2006 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 7323800)
I don't see this as a great statistic to indicate that the Flames are scoring more than expected. Atleast not in the sense that Calgary has suddenly put to rest the concerns that people had with them.

If anything, I would say it's more of an statement about how Edmonton is coming up short in the goal scoring department more than anything else. Which I am sure makes everyone in Calgary just as happy anyways but that's besides the point...

Back to Calgary...

They are 11th out of 16 in Western Conference scoring so for starters I don't think Edmonton is the bench mark to which Calgary should really be judged.

In addition, the big critisism against Calgary heading into the season was that they had no secondary scoring with their forwards and looking at the numbers suggests that this is exactly the case.

Of Calgary's 76 Goals, 15 have been from the blueline and of the 61 goals scored by the forwards, 30 have been from the top line.

So does having 50% of your forward scoring coming from a single forward line really demonstrate scoring depth? I wouldn't think so.

i think you missed the point of this thread

all summer long flames fans heard nothing but how tanguay isn't the answer to the flames offensive problems and how we still won't be able to score... most of that ridicule came from oiler fans... we also heard that with lupul and sykora and the emergence of hemsky and horcoff as stars that the oilers were going to be a dominant offensive team... so maybe its just me but i sure see some humor in that team who can't score averaging more goals per game than one who was touted to be so great offensively

Lunatik* 12-11-2006 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perogieboy (Post 7323576)
Being in Edmonton I got a good look at what the city thought of the Oilers before the season. Honestly, some of their expectations of some of the players was very inflated. Pisani for instance, after his playoff run everyone was expecting a 30 goal year (and from the third line). Expectations of Stoll were really high as well. I actually expected more out of Lupul, but there is another where expectations vastly exceeded performance.

I do have to say though that I am impressed with Lombardi this year. I was afraid he was going to be one of those "lifelong potential" kind of guys.

I'd better be careful with my expectations, though. He's not going to win the Art Ross ;)

i was with you in regards to lombardi... i didnt think he had it in him... i also didnt think obasew could start putting up assists... it seems as if a new coach might have been just as important as the acquisition of tanguay... it seems players are playing different types of roles this year... Iginla isnt the guy who is going to score 10 more goals than assists this year... he is currently on pace for about 50 goals and 50 assists (slightly lower for goals and slightly higher for assists)... Lombardi is scoring at nearly the same clip he is setting them up... Huselius has been hot for more than just a handful of games... maybe this really is the place for him (again i was saying no he couldnt do it)... Kobasew while not scoring at the clip any flame fan expected... he is 1 assists from matching his career high already... not to mention how his defensive game has improved by leaps and bounds... Langkow is even proving to be more of a playmaker than i thought he had in him... he is really flourishing between iggy and tangs

people can say what they want about this team and their scoring... while i readily agree that we could use alot more scoring from lines 3 & 4... 5 of our top 6 forwards are on pace to break career highs in points... and all 6 are on pace to set career highs in assists... to me that says there has been a major change in the philosophy of this teams offense

copperandblue 12-11-2006 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatik (Post 7323967)
i think you missed the point of this thread

all summer long flames fans heard nothing but how tanguay isn't the answer to the flames offensive problems and how we still won't be able to score... most of that ridicule came from oiler fans... we also heard that with lupul and sykora and the emergence of hemsky and horcoff as stars that the oilers were going to be a dominant offensive team... so maybe its just me but i sure see some humor in that team who can't score averaging more goals per game than one who was touted to be so great offensively

Ahh my mistake.

When the original poster made a comment about the Flames impressive secondary scoring, I thought this was a thread about the Flames, well you know, improved secondary scoring.

I didn't realize this was 'Calgary is doing better than Edmonton' ala Calgary Puck's obsession type thread.

Sorry about interjecting, carry on and enjoy.

FireItup 12-11-2006 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 7323800)
I don't see this as a great statistic to indicate that the Flames are scoring more than expected. Atleast not in the sense that Calgary has suddenly put to rest the concerns that people had with them.

If anything, I would say it's more of an statement about how Edmonton is coming up short in the goal scoring department more than anything else. Which I am sure makes everyone in Calgary just as happy anyways but that's besides the point...

Back to Calgary...

They are 11th out of 16 in Western Conference scoring so for starters I don't think Edmonton is the bench mark to which Calgary should really be judged.

In addition, the big critisism against Calgary heading into the season was that they had no secondary scoring with their forwards and looking at the numbers suggests that this is exactly the case.

Of Calgary's 76 Goals, 15 have been from the blueline and of the 61 goals scored by the forwards, 30 have been from the top line.

So does having 50% of your forward scoring coming from a single forward line really demonstrate scoring depth? I wouldn't think so.

The Flames are 11th of 16 because they have played the least amount of games of all the teams in the west thats why you have to base this stat on Goals average per game.

No Secondary scoring? Our top line has produced 30 goals while the rest of our forwards have produced 31 goals...that to me looks like secondary scoring.

and yes...its weird to see my Flames out scoring the Oilers because of all the off season hype on the Oils offence.

copperandblue 12-11-2006 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireItup (Post 7324315)
No Secondary scoring? Our top line has produced 30 goals while the rest of our forwards have produced 31 goals...that to me looks like secondary scoring.

Really?

You think it speaks well of Calgary's depth that 50% of the scoring done by forwards is being done by one line of players?

Or to go even one further and adding Huselius in there, better than 2/3's of the forwards' scoring is being done by 1/3 of the forwards?

Sorry, personally I think that if you have a deep team, you should see your top line scoring in the 33% range, not 50% range.

onetweasy 12-11-2006 03:51 PM

Well Flames are on a winning streak – the Oil bashing threads are out!!!

Calgary has been getting some secondary scoring and has been winning games. The Oilers are underachieving offensively but does this worry me?

Not in the least - the fact that the Oilers have managed to stay in first place while struggling offensively, having Moreau, Hemmer and Smyth out for extended periods of time has me excited.

This should also worry some teams in the NW division – the Oilers despite disappointing offensive numbers and some key injuries are still managing to lead the division – not by much but all things considered I am pretty happy.

Lets knock out Iggy (comparable to Smyth), AT (comparable to Hemsky) and Yelle (I know he has been out but comparable to EM) and see how much scoring the Flames do!!

Lunatik* 12-11-2006 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 7324174)
Ahh my mistake.

When the original poster made a comment about the Flames impressive secondary scoring, I thought this was a thread about the Flames, well you know, improved secondary scoring.

I didn't realize this was 'Calgary is doing better than Edmonton' ala Calgary Puck's obsession type thread.

Sorry about interjecting, carry on and enjoy.

cant a thread be about both? the flames have improved their scoring... and for me thats all that matters... i didnt start this thread nor was i ever planning to... but i did find it funny that we were scoring more per game for the reasons i stated above... but i guess its ok for some fans to critisize prior to the season starting but not alright for another to say haha you were wrong??

OntOilFan 12-11-2006 04:00 PM

Edmonton and Calgary's offense both suck. What's new?

OntOilFan 12-11-2006 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetweasy (Post 7324617)
Well Flames are on a winning streak – the Oil bashing threads are out!!!

Calgary has been getting some secondary scoring and has been winning games. The Oilers are underachieving offensively but does this worry me?

Not in the least - the fact that the Oilers have managed to stay in first place while struggling offensively, having Moreau, Hemmer and Smyth out for extended periods of time has me excited.

This should also worry some teams in the NW division – the Oilers despite disappointing offensive numbers and some key injuries are still managing to lead the division – not by much but all things considered I am pretty happy.

Lets knock out Iggy (comparable to Smyth), AT (comparable to Hemsky) and Yelle (I know he has been out but comparable to EM) and see how much scoring the Flames do!!

Look at the standings, pal.

BadNewsBearcat 12-11-2006 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetweasy (Post 7324617)
Well Flames are on a winning streak – the Oil bashing threads are out!!!

Calgary has been getting some secondary scoring and has been winning games. The Oilers are underachieving offensively but does this worry me?

Not in the least - the fact that the Oilers have managed to stay in first place while struggling offensively, having Moreau, Hemmer and Smyth out for extended periods of time has me excited.

This should also worry some teams in the NW division – the Oilers despite disappointing offensive numbers and some key injuries are still managing to lead the division – not by much but all things considered I am pretty happy.

Lets knock out Iggy (comparable to Smyth), AT (comparable to Hemsky) and Yelle (I know he has been out but comparable to EM) and see how much scoring the Flames do!!

And since we're on a winning streak, the "Flames defense is overrated and it's all because of Kipper threads" are appearing on the Oilers board so I don't really get the point you're trying to make.

onetweasy 12-11-2006 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OntOilFan (Post 7324727)
Look at the standings, pal.

Hey look OntOilFan has made his way over - thanks for coming out!!!

Yeah you are right I just looked at the standings - tied for first in the NW!!!

I don’t think the Flame posters enjoy having us post back and fourth so let’s do them a favor and not post on this board and well I am at it you should really stop posting on the Oilers boards as well!!!

Have a good day,

Sorry to the Flame posters - but I am such a fan of OntOilFan!!!

Slats432 12-11-2006 04:47 PM

This needs to stay on topic.

Flames outscoring Oilers. If it turns into bashing (Especially from Oiler fans) then YOU are going to get the warnings, and deference will be given to Flames fans talking about their team on their board.

If you don't like it....go to your own board.

abracanada 12-11-2006 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 7323800)
I don't see this as a great statistic to indicate that the Flames are scoring more than expected. Atleast not in the sense that Calgary has suddenly put to rest the concerns that people had with them.

If anything, I would say it's more of an statement about how Edmonton is coming up short in the goal scoring department more than anything else. Which I am sure makes everyone in Calgary just as happy anyways but that's besides the point...

Back to Calgary...

They are 11th out of 16 in Western Conference scoring so for starters I don't think Edmonton is the bench mark to which Calgary should really be judged.

In addition, the big critisism against Calgary heading into the season was that they had no secondary scoring with their forwards and looking at the numbers suggests that this is exactly the case.

Of Calgary's 76 Goals, 15 have been from the blueline and of the 61 goals scored by the forwards, 30 have been from the top line.

So does having 50% of your forward scoring coming from a single forward line really demonstrate scoring depth? I wouldn't think so.

Now here is where I differ. I don't want to get too ahead of myself because the Flames have picked things up offensively lately, but I also think there is a little credit due. Part of the criticism of the Flames has been that the team is a one line team, and not even a great line at that. The criticism wasn't that the Flames had no secondary scoring, it was that it didn't have any scoring, especially when compared with the mighty Oiler juggernaut we were warned about.

The fact is, the Oiler machine was way overhyped and if you want proof, it doesn't take too long to dig it up. The Flames offensive abilities were way underrated. The Flames have moved up in the standings from 28th, to middle of the pack. That is a pretty healthy increase over the period of one year. On the first line alone, Calgary has two players who are moving dangerously close to your top scorer, and another who is fairly well ahead of him, in spite of getting of to a spotty start. Players on the second line, like Lombo and Huselius are performing near the Horcoffs and company. Horcoff, a guy who came off of the first Oiler line last year. To imply the Flames have no secondary scoring, is ridiculous.

You can juggle the statistics around all you like but the Flames have more scoring depth now, than they have had in several years. And the Flames struggled out of the gate. They have gone through a horrendous slide to start the year. We are only beginning to see what they are capable of.

It is true the Oilers have had some injuries, but the Flames went through a tremendous scoring slump to start the year, and the Oilers went through a hot streak. We will see how things compare a little later.

There is a lot of excitement about this Flames squad, because of the offensive spark they have shown. Although it may not play out this way all year, I think it is understandable that people are going to crow on here a little bit when the worm is beginning to turn don't you think?

TMNSI* 12-11-2006 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 7324552)
Really?

You think it speaks well of Calgary's depth that 50% of the scoring done by forwards is being done by one line of players?

Or to go even one further and adding Huselius in there, better than 2/3's of the forwards' scoring is being done by 1/3 of the forwards?

Sorry, personally I think that if you have a deep team, you should see your top line scoring in the 33% range, not 50% range.

if your first line is only scoring 33% of your goals, than you have a pretty average first line.

When you have no scoring depth that means that your first line is scoring 60-80% of your goals, having a 50-50 is a nice balanced attack

Bank Shot 12-11-2006 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracanada (Post 7325694)
You can juggle the statistics around all you like but the Flames have more scoring depth now, than they have had in several years. And the Flames struggled out of the gate. They have gone through a horrendous slide to start the year. We are only beginning to see what they are capable of.

Says who? For all we know this could be a highpoint in the Flames season in terms of goals per game. I really don't see anyone who is underachieving. Second leading scorer Huselius with a .222 shooting percentage is overachieving and won't be able to maintain that pace throughout the year.

abracanada 12-11-2006 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bank Shot (Post 7326037)
Says who? For all we know this could be a highpoint in the Flames season in terms of goals per game. I really don't see anyone who is underachieving. Second leading scorer Huselius with a .222 shooting percentage is overachieving and won't be able to maintain that pace throughout the year.

Funny how the story changes. Now the team is overachieving. The third line is underachieving as a unit. Kobasew is underachieving goal wise. Friesen is underachieving. Yelle hasn't been able to put up much due to injury but his return should help. Regehr has not performed as well as he has in the past.

You may think Huselius is overachieving, but I happen to think he is finally realizing his potential. He too got off to a slow start or his numbers would really be scary. We all know he was one of the top rookies his first year and in Sweden, he proved he could easily outperform Horcoff as well as others.

If you want to talk about overachieving, maybe you should take a look at the Pronger supplemented Oilers of last year. Maybe you should look at Sykora who came out of the gate like the hottest thing since sliced bread even though it has been years since he played at that level. Or Smyth who had what, 14 goals in his first 19 games? Do you expect him to score 60 or more?

Bank Shot 12-11-2006 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracanada (Post 7326385)
Funny how the story changes. Now the team is overachieving. The third line is underachieving as a unit. Kobasew is underachieving goal wise. Friesen is underachieving. Yelle hasn't been able to put up much due to injury but his return should help. Regehr has not performed as well as he has in the past.

No just Huselius. Yelle and Frisesn can't score to save their lives and everyone knows it. All of Calgary's main offensive weapons are firing on all cylinders right now. They are more likely to slow down a bit or maintain then to increase their current pace.

Quote:

You may think Huselius is overachieving, but I happen to think he is finally realizing his potential. He too got off to a slow start or his numbers would really be scary. We all know he was one of the top rookies his first year and in Sweden, he proved he could easily outperform Horcoff as well as others.
I think you're wrong. His shooting percentage is almost double his career average. That reeks of hot streak.

Boilers* 12-11-2006 07:34 PM

If Iggy and Tangs go down with an injury I'd wonder how many goals the rest of the team could cobble together. Not many. Not many 't all I'd suspect.

MrMastodonFarm* 12-11-2006 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bank Shot (Post 7326714)
No just Huselius. Yelle and Frisesn can't score to save their lives and everyone knows it..

You know you're reaching when you put a player like Huselius in with a player like Yelle.

Huselius has been a good secondary scoring threat for most of his NHL career, it isn't a suprise that he is doing it now.

Bank Shot 12-11-2006 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm (Post 7326879)
You know you're reaching when you put a player like Huselius in with a player like Yelle.

Who is doing that?

Quote:

Huselius has been a good secondary scoring threat for most of his NHL career, it isn't a suprise that he is doing it now.
He'll slow down in goalscoring, and probably get more assists.


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