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-   -   Lemieux give his raise back (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=32537)

tom_servo 12-01-2003 02:35 PM

Lemieux gives his raise back
 
http://www.pittsburghpenguins.com/te...arts/555.0.php

Quote:

There was a slight uproar in many circles when Mario Lemieux was awarded a raise by the Penguins' management group this summer, a raise that upped his 2002-03 salary to more than $10 million - nearly double his previous year's salary - for his combined playing and front office roles.

Well, Lemieux quieted those critics today by rolling back his salary to pre-2003 levels, meaning he will make only half of what he was due to take home this year. The announcement came during an afternoon press briefing conducted by team President and Governor, Ken Sawyer.

Masao 12-01-2003 03:01 PM

Fleury is going to be able to buy a lot of potato chips with that ;)

Big McLargehuge 12-01-2003 03:03 PM

Amazing how no one can post in a thread where he does the right thing...

Thanks Mario!

tom_servo 12-01-2003 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao
Fleury is going to be able to buy a lot of potato chips with that ;)

Yeah. But even with this, I wouldn't expect to see Fleury here past 25 games.

Darth Vitale 12-01-2003 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom_servo

That is very cool. Not for Mario, but in general shows a willingness to put the team first. This will help a lot in securing Fleury if he stays up / for next year, as well as another #1 or #2 pick to be signed next year, new CBA or not.

Go Mario.

Vlad The Impaler 12-01-2003 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantompenguin
Amazing how no one can post in a thread where he does the right thing...

Thanks Mario!

He indeed did the right thing. It is funny however that some Pens apologist were defending Mario for taking that raise in earlier threads.

It just confirms what I and a few others have had to say about this: It was wrong under the circumstances to take that increase in the first place.

After trading Straka, it would have been difficult for Mario to justify that salary under the circumstances (despite the fact he is one amazing player who does deserve even MORE). I'm glad he made the right thing.

NJ_Devil_Boy 12-01-2003 03:17 PM

Talk about taking one for the team. What a move by Lemieux. :bow:

Lemieux takes pay cut + Straka gone = maybe Fleury stays?

Big McLargehuge 12-01-2003 03:21 PM

Well one huge misconception is that Lemieux gave the payraise to himself, which is bullcrap as he's still getting his 5+ million a year to play, this was as his jobs in the front office. The board members really screwed up on this one, and it's great to see this thing get rightened up.

Enoch 12-01-2003 03:46 PM

Good for the Penguins. The smart thing to do would be to acquire some cheap reliable d-men and install a defensive system. Of course, the wisest course is not always the one taken ;/

st_roland 12-01-2003 03:53 PM

Just another in a growing list of reasons to love mario

Vlad The Impaler 12-01-2003 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
Good for the Penguins. The smart thing to do would be to acquire some cheap reliable d-men and install a defensive system. Of course, the wisest course is not always the one taken ;/

I doubt that will happen as long as Mario is involved as a player. They have shown a complete disregard for the defensive aspect of the game.

Burke's Evil Spirit 12-01-2003 04:05 PM

...uh, as the Penguins high-powered offense clearly indicates...

No offense Vlad, but it's not like their forwards and goaltenders are anything to write home about. Hell, with the departure of Straka, I'd say that all they have going for them is their defense.

Enoch 12-01-2003 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I doubt that will happen as long as Mario is involved as a player. They have shown a complete disregard for the defensive aspect of the game.

Exactly the reason for the last sentence of my post.

Evilo 12-01-2003 09:17 PM

no. They're TRYING to. Right now they can't.

But I'm sure some people will try to turn a negative spin on it.

That said, I still think his raise was deserved. But the way the season was going, and the attendance, his move was needed.

Vlad The Impaler 12-01-2003 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface
Not to mention our coach who lacks major NHL experience,

That's another problem with this organization. Frankly, they are becoming the Mickey Mouses of hockey. They have a way of hiring puppets lately and completely refuse to commit as a team, it seems. The coaches are always either incompetent, or fired when they try to put a system in place. It's ridiculous.

The whole team structure needs to be reworked. No matter how many talented players they will acquire, you need a plan in today's NHL.

Disco Volante 12-01-2003 11:34 PM

Hmmm, don't want to piss on your "Super Mario" party, but :

Quote:

The pay raise, designed to make Lemieux's salary comparable to stars such as Jagr and Peter Forsberg, was contingent upon the Penguins reaching certain revenue levels.
(...)
``Rather than wait for us to bring this up, Mario stepped up to key members of our board and said basically, `My salary is going to be rolled back to where it was last year and the year before. We need to respect the bottom line,' `` Sawyer said.
I think he wouldn't have had the raise anyway and he decided that it'd look better if he just step up and pose like he's taking one for the team. I, for one, wouldn't go praising him for that stunt.

Source

Disco Volante 12-01-2003 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface
Where's the middle finger smilie when u need one.

Mario was told he was going to get the pay raise, but the board was going to talk to him about it because the team was losing money, to possibly postpone it, which is what i think anyways, instead of making it an issue, he just said straight up, i'm taking a pay cut, don't want it.

He didn't go around telling people, he told his staff members, who then told the local reporters.

Oh I guess you didn't like the taste of your breuvage. I'm not reading told he was going to get the pay raise, I'm reading contingent upon the Penguins reaching certain revenue levels. And I can't see how this team would meet certain revenue levels this year.

But maybe the article is wrong. It's from Yahoo! so hardly a reliable source (still more than you are yourself, IMO).

Vlad The Impaler 12-01-2003 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface
So teams that spend tons of money now to win a cup are smarter? Or are the teams that don't spend alot of money and use what they have in their system, what they've developed?

I'm not sure I understand the question, nor do I see the relevance. Not trying to be snarky, honestly.

Basically, all I'm saying is that the trend I am seeing on these boards these days is that there is a magic recipe. You tank many years and then you'll magically become a powerhouse.

It just doesn't work this way. There's a lot more going into it. A LOT more. I find it sad when I see an avatar of a Pens jersey with name tags Fleury/Ovechkin/Crosby as if it is some sort of masterplan, a triumph.

All I see is a team heading for disaster.

I will gladly go into the subject of so-called smarter teams with you if you want to, although it is slightly off-topic for the thread :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface
Craig Patrick interviewed many candidates, Eddie O impressed him the most.

Craig Patrick is a puppet. Has been eating in Mario's hand for years now. Not surprisingly, Edzo, a total newbie, is a friend of Mario. Coincidence? I think not.

This team is mismanaged to the extreme and the only reason I didn't put CP in the top 5 worst GM in the league is because I believe he isn't truly one right now.

Evilo 12-02-2003 01:01 AM

Well if you knew Eddie O one bit, you'd know he's anything but a puppet.

Fish on The Sand 12-02-2003 01:15 AM

I've always been the first to jump on the guy, but I'll be the first to give him his due. He made the right decision.

Trottier 12-02-2003 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Basically, all I'm saying is that the trend I am seeing on these boards these days is that there is a magic recipe. You tank many years and then you'll magically become a powerhouse.

It just doesn't work this way. There's a lot more going into it. A LOT more. I find it sad when I see an avatar of a Pens jersey with name tags Fleury/Ovechkin/Crosby as if it is some sort of masterplan, a triumph.

OMG! I feel like I died and went to HockeyFuture heaven! :bow:

I could not agree more with your sentiment.

"Let's lose, so we can win!!"

Utter ignorance.

You've articulated and debunked the greatest myth perpetrated on these boards. :handclap:

balddog66 12-02-2003 04:07 AM

My question is what does this do to the CBA?
THe leagues most marketable and arguably one of the best players of all time, and owner, takes a 50% pay cut...has Bettman made this suggestion?

Tiki 12-02-2003 05:49 AM

Mario was owed almost 30 Mill in payments on his contracts from his playing days when he bought the team. If another owner had taken the team over and gone into full blown bankruptcy he would not have received most of that money. Now three years and about 15 Mill in Salary payments later he has already made back about half the ammount owed to him.

He turned the original debt into stcok in the team for the take over. So If they are able to sell it at a later date he will most likely make all of his lost money back at this point. (assumeing he gets the 15 mill already received from playing and gets about half of what he paid for his share of the team if there is a sale)

Where many see him as a savior of the Pens, I still see him as a guy out to save himself untill thier is a ground breaking for a new arena in downtown Pittsburgh. Untill that point there is little guarentee that the Pens will remain there long term.

This move helps keep the Pens solvent for now and IMO keeps up the appearence that Mario is out for the best intrest of the team and not the best intrest of his investment in the Pens past, present, and future.

I am by no means a Pens fan, but am a big fan of Mario and consider the most talented player to play the game. Still, I can't help but see this as a attempt to save what was his. The Hockey decisions made under his ownership (by that I mean bringing in the Coaches that have been there) have been laughable at best. His gutting of the payroll is not a problem IMO, but something that had to be done to keep the team going.

I hope he proves me wrong and finds a way to keep the Pens in Pittsburgh. I just don't see it happening.

discostu 12-02-2003 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
He indeed did the right thing. It is funny however that some Pens apologist were defending Mario for taking that raise in earlier threads.

It just confirms what I and a few others have had to say about this: It was wrong under the circumstances to take that increase in the first place.

After trading Straka, it would have been difficult for Mario to justify that salary under the circumstances (despite the fact he is one amazing player who does deserve even MORE). I'm glad he made the right thing.

PErsonally, I think he's entitled to getting as much out of that organization as he can.

The reason the Penguins still exist is because he decided to roll over his back-pay into equity into the team. True, he would have only received a fraction on the dollar if he cashed out, but it would at least be something. He's had nothing but headaches since he's taken over ownership.

I also think the whole back-pay issue is something he needs to be commended for. I'm not sure when he first agreed to deferring salary started, but based on the amount that was deferred at the time of the original bankruptcy, it likely started happening while he was still at the top of his game. Mario had the option of making the organization pay him in full at that time, or trade him to someone who could. Instead, he chose the deferring option. If he left at that time (by demanding a trade), he probably would have sunk that team.

I think he's now at the point where he's not willing to sacrifice too much to ensure the longevity of the franchise. The only reason why he's not getting the $10 mil that he hoped for is because the money isn't there. In order to the organization to pay him that much, it would require more capital to be invested in the organization to sustain the bigger loss that would occur because of it. As an owner, that money would have to come out of his pocket. What's the point of doing that?

The Penguins have become a complete joke as far as I'm concerned. It's painful to watch a team operate like this. It won't last long though. Their outcome will result partly on a new CBA, and partly on a decision regarding how much public money they will get for a new arena. If it's not enough at that point to keep this team going, they'll probably either fold or relocate.

discostu 12-02-2003 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
OMG! I feel like I died and went to HockeyFuture heaven! :bow:

I could not agree more with your sentiment.

"Let's lose, so we can win!!"

Utter ignorance.

You've articulated and debunked the greatest myth perpetrated on these boards. :handclap:

Count me in as someone who agrees with that sentiment.

Everyone looks at the powerhouse teams and credits their early losses with their success. It can work sometimes, but it still requires smart drafting, and stronger player development to happen. There's no guarantee, and it also comes at a great cost.

The Nordiques had to relocate because of it. If they were actually winning games during those lean years, they may have been able to put up the money to get an arena to keep the team there.

Ottawa went through bankruptcy. Part of this was due to heavy losses in the early years. If they were even half-decent, they could have increased their revenues enough so that their debt in their later years wouldn't have been crippling.

Even in those situations, those teams didn't just rely on the strong drafting. The Colorado franchise was built on two key transactions:
The Lindros deal
The Patrick Roy deal

The LIndros deal was a once in a lifetime event, and one we won't see anymore. It was contigent on having a star prospect, but you'll never see that type of return in any trade ever again, and if you saw a fair return for LIndros, they wouldn't be the team they are today.

As for Ottawa, their success has to do more with their drafting and player development once they got out of the league basement, than it does with those awful early years.

Don't expect the Penguins to be a powerhousein 5 to 10 years just because they suck now. They need much better management over the next few years if they even want to survive, much less dominate, if they want that to happen.


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