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Rodent 12-01-2003 04:04 PM

Rumor on XTRA
 
As Henrique mentioned on HockeyBird's message board, there was a report on XTRA (San Diego/Los Angeles) this afternoon rumoring a deal submitted to NHL HQ: Lundmark for Jagr that is being mulled by the league office.

http://bb.hockeybird.com/viewtopic.php?t=5747&start=84

Anybody hear anything on the Beltway stations?

Rodent 12-01-2003 04:19 PM

Just by way of background for those of you local to DC... I dunno if you can hear WFAN "down there'. But Henrique's comparison of Lee Hamilton to Chris Russo is...

Well Russo knows baseball, hoops and football. But Russo just thinks he knows NHL which is more dangerous than not knowing and knowing that you don't know. "Buffoon" is an apt characterization. So it may mitigate the validity of Hamilton's rumor. I was hoping someone here might have better poop on the rumored deal.

If true, however, I'd be shocked because it would seem to me a much easier "solution" for Washington simply to find a head coach under whom Jagr could flourish than to accept Lundmark and subsidize so much of JJ's remaining contract. I.e., the rumor just doesn't make sense to me given the other options Leonsis could resort to.

Understand that from a Ranger perspective, giving up more than Lundmark for JJ is foolish given the respective bargaining positions, the long term commitment to Jagr and the potential salary cap implications to NYR under the next CBA. So the price of Lundmark does make sense to Ranger fans.

But that doesn't make it "right" for Washington, when there really isn't a gun to Ted's head forcing him to unload Jagr to a conference rival.

Sorry to ramble. Your thoughts.

eric824 12-01-2003 08:28 PM

Well, the "gun" to Ted's head is the fact that the team is losing money - perhaps $30 million this season. Smaller losses can be absorbed, but that's a lot of money to lose on an annual basis, even for a very wealthy man like Leonsis. From a pure "hockey" standpoint, the trade doesn't make a lot of sense for the Caps - as you say, and it would only save about $4.5 million, unless the idea is to deal Lang, probably to Detroit, and have Lundmark replace him. (Risky!) One would think they'd agree to take a bigger contract from the Rangers (and pay less of Jagr's salary) to make the trade "look" more even. McPhee has always liked Anson Carter (who broke into the league with the Caps), for example, and tried to get him from Edmonton before the Rangers did. Overall, I think this is probably a bogus rumor, though anything's possible.
McPhee also is reluctant to make a deal that is so lopsided from a hockey standpoint just to save money, and so far Leonsis seems to be backing him up there.
I sort of like Lundmark, though I haven't really seen enough of him to say if he's an underachieving bust or if the change of scenery might let him break out.

Rodent 12-01-2003 10:58 PM

Thanks you for the detailed response. It helps.

Jamie's got more potential than Manny Malhotra. But he's still quite raw. On the plus side, he's still quite young and it is difficult to label him as an underachiever given the very odd uses NYR made of him these past two seasons.

He's clearly not cut out for LW despite playing several dozen games there last season. He is a natural center who has played few minutes at pivot with New York. Instead, he has flanked Bobby Holik's right shoulder most comfortably.

Jamie is not physical. He's more of a finesse player. What he needs is to drive down the slot more often.

He's got a respectable shot when he takes it. Very peculiar delivery: he drops to one knee when he shoots which telegraphs it.

In Juniors he was a pivot known more for feeding than for scoring. His numbers were not the best - but understandable considering the lack of talent he was given at either wing.

My guess is that he'll be a mid-late bloomer, perhaps age 24. He'll probably top out as a third line pivot or maybe a second line RW, quite respectable. But he's no Peter Forsberg. He doesn't "take charge" when he has the puck, instead seeking to shoot or otherwise pass it as soon as it arrives. And he's got much to learn when it comes to faceoffs.

As for Anson... I can't imagine why Slats would withhold Carter from Washington unless he wants Carter for an additional trade. Carter's skating has been atrocious since the moment of his arrival. He's been known to trip over the blue line when distracted. Positive: he is not afraid to mix it up in the low slot and garbage goals are the only ones he's gotten in Gotham. But he looks nothing like what his Edmonton stats would suggest. You'd probably be better off with Jamie, quite frankly... in terms of bang for the buck.

If GMGM actually chose Lundmark over Carter after his scouting visit to MSG, I would not be shocked to hear it. Carter has peaked whereas Jamie is very worth auditioning.

Heck, Martin St. Louis didn't bloom until age 27. Now look at him.

Rodent 12-01-2003 11:18 PM

Eric,

What I was alluding to was this:

In terms of alternatives for Leonsis and GMGM, wouldn't a happy and productive Jagr be a marketing asset for the Caps? You mention that Ted may lose $30M this season...

... but isn't much of that a matter of Jagr not living up to expectations and dragging down the rest of the team? . . . and attendance?

Instead of taking (just) Lundmark as compensation, wouldn't finding a coach to make JJ & Bondra happy be a "better" overall solution business-wise?

I look at the names on Washington's roster and cannot believe the corresponding W-L record.

Granted, Bondra, Lang, Sergei and JJ have their best days behind them. But they still ought to be capable of putting up impressive numbers in aggregate seeing as how there are enough weapons on the Caps to spread enemy checkers thin. You'd think that somebody has got to be unmarked.

That said... I do understand the principle of "addition by subtraction". And if JJ is truly poison in the locker room, perhaps Lundmark is an acceptable consolation prize for unloading the problem child and his enormous financial commitment.

Personally, the "child" in me is giddy at the thought of Jagr wearing Lady Liberty this season. But the more rational Squirrel in me shudders to think of the options NYR will NOT have in the out-years of JJ's contract particularly if certain "limits" come to pass in the next CBA. The Rangers would be as screwed as St. Louis through 2007 or 2008. My brain is hoping that Sather passes on 68 and waits for the next crop of UFAs who might be as young as 27 if you believe some of the speculation.

Don't take this personally. But I've been advocating a Ranger stance of leaving JJ right where he is because it seems to be helping Ranger chances of reaching the playoffs by keeping the Caps out of the race. If Sather bites on Jagr, then GMGM will be free to make other moves and the Caps could be right back in it before March.

Rodent 12-01-2003 11:31 PM

John Dellapina's Tuesday column just appeared on the net.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/st...p-125706c.html

He says "nothing brewing" between GMGM and Slats.

txpd 12-02-2003 03:09 AM

1. Jagr has lost any marketing advantage that he ever had in Washington. Having him happy and putting up big numbers on a horribly losing team does nothing for ticket sales. It should be mentioned that the latest reports of Jagr talking to Red Wings players last week about rescuing him out of Washington comes amid his one of his hottest scoring streaks in a long time. You can take from that he won't be happy in Washington. Period

2. You say that its granted that Gonchar, Lang, others best days are behind them. Have you not noticed that Gonchar and Lang are in the midst of by far their best seasons ever?

execwrite 12-02-2003 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodent
...
Personally, the "child" in me is giddy at the thought of Jagr wearing Lady Liberty this season. But the more rational Squirrel in me shudders to think of the options NYR will NOT have in the out-years of JJ's contract particularly if certain "limits" come to pass in the next CBA. The Rangers would be as screwed as St. Louis through 2007 or 2008. ...

One small correction - St. Louis is not in bad shape post-CBA. Tkachuk and Weight's contracts decline next year and the year after. That's all the Blues are committed to.

Sports Junkie 12-02-2003 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodent
Anybody hear anything on the Beltway stations?


This would assume that radio stations down here even discuss hockey. Our 1 "sports" station basically ignores hockey/the Caps aside from and despite the fact that they broadcast thier games.

Interesting rumor though.

PSUhockey34 12-02-2003 09:28 AM

Maybe Bondra's best days are behind him, well in fact they are but both Lang and Gonchar are getting better with each season...it might be a stretch but you could possible consider them both late bloomers

txpd 12-02-2003 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWM3owner
Maybe Bondra's best days are behind him, well in fact they are but both Lang and Gonchar are getting better with each season...it might be a stretch but you could possible consider them both late bloomers

Defensemen in general are late bloomers. Its seems to take them longer to develope. Lang is a late bloomer. Most players of his caliber get a chance to be the top gun on their team. Lang has always been a 2nd banana at best having to lineup behind Jagr, Mario, Kovalev and so forth.

When Jagr left the door open this season Lang got his chance to be the top player on his team. This is his first chance to run a power play and to be the lead player on the top line on his team. I think its very possible that this is the real Robert Lang. That its not a hot streak.

I am inclined to think that at 32 he has at least the lenth of his contract
to continue at a top rate of production. Is am I wrong or is $5m a year not too much to pay for your top scorer? He is a happy, positive player. His mates love him.

I say after Jagr is traded, they make Lang Captain and build the team around Lang and Gonchar.

AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar 12-02-2003 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txpd
It should be mentioned that the latest reports of Jagr talking to Red Wings players last week about rescuing him out of Washington comes amid his one of his hottest scoring streaks in a long time. You can take from that he won't be happy in Washington. Period

I cant believe you actually believe that crap from the NY Daily Post. Did you actually look in the article it was liek 1 paraagraph and had no credible information. This is the same paper taht has claimed Jagr to be a Ranger no less then 3 times already.

txpd 12-02-2003 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number67
I cant believe you actually believe that crap from the NY Daily Post. Did you actually look in the article it was liek 1 paraagraph and had no credible information. This is the same paper taht has claimed Jagr to be a Ranger no less then 3 times already.

Well, that report was in the daily news, not the ny post. who cares really what he had to say in passing to other players. its pretty obvious that he doesn't want to play in washington. would you dispute that?

AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar 12-02-2003 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txpd
Well, that report was in the daily news, not the ny post. who cares really what he had to say in passing to other players. its pretty obvious that he doesn't want to play in washington. would you dispute that?

Yeah I meant Daily News, I dont know why I said post.

I dont really know what to believe, I dont think he enjoys playing in a city that consitently bashes him or for a coach that doesnt know how to put together a decent system. He seems to be having fun on the ice and I do think that he wants to prove his critics wrong. I bet if you asked all the players on the Caps only a few would actually want to be in Washington, nobody likes a losing situation.

AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar 12-03-2003 07:45 PM

Intresting that we are talkign about Jagr wasnting or not wanting to leave Eashignton and there was a recent quote of Jagr saying he wants to win a cup for us, the Cap fans.

Its hard to tell who is and isnt lying when stuff gets palyed up in teh media and all but I tend to beleive jagr over teh NY Daily News crew and others that are saying Jagr wants out without much to go off except on ice performance.

Rodent 12-03-2003 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number67
I tend to believe jagr over the NY Daily News crew and others that are saying Jagr wants out without much to go off except on ice performance.

Well there was more than just on-ice performance. There was an interview conducted in Czech and published in a Czech newspaper several months ago that got translated back into English and that started a series of backchannel communiques with translated-into-English remarks attributed to folks represented to be among JJ's inner-circle.

Whether that stuff is based upon genuine Jagr-speak or whether it was distortion we'll never know. But it doesn't matter.

The point is that the speculation was based on more than simply Jagr's on-ice performance and antics on the bench. It was based upon things he was alleged to have said in Czech.

AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar 12-04-2003 03:55 AM

That was quite awhile ago. People change thier minds. Bondra wanted out of Washignton a couple of years ago but I dont think that means he still wants out now.

txpd 12-04-2003 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number67
That was quite awhile ago. People change thier minds. Bondra wanted out of Washignton a couple of years ago but I dont think that means he still wants out now.

now, according to the NY Times, Jagr says that he doesn't want to be traded. you figure out what he wants. i can't

CapitalsCupFantasy 12-04-2003 06:33 PM

interesting stuff
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by txpd
now, according to the NY Times, Jagr says that he doesn't want to be traded. you figure out what he wants. i can't

One of my friends who I go to Caps games with, talked to Lubomir (Jag's Limo driver), and he said in his worst broken english, "Jagr no want trade".

No joke.

I saw the highlights of the Rangers game. Anyone see the dirty muther *****er Peca knee Lundmark? I'm guessing a Lundmark for Jagr deal is dead now. Peca should go to the Leafs. What a perfect fit.

Rodent 12-04-2003 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanwon
I saw the highlights of the Rangers game. Anyone see the dirty muther *****er Peca knee Lundmark? I'm guessing a Lundmark for Jagr deal is dead now. Peca should go to the Leafs. What a perfect fit.

This is sooo wierd. You appear to be a Caps fan and you view Peca's hit on Lundmark as dirty. I'm a Ranger fan and if anyone "should" be livid with Peca it would proably be a Ranger fan. Yet I didn't see it as dirty.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, Shanwon.

I'm just remarking how ironic our viewpoints are.

I'm basing my opinion of the hit on the fact that Jamie's legs are wide apart at the moment of contact. It's like, "if Peca wanted to lay shoulder to shoulder, there's no way Michael could avoid leg to leg contact given Jamie's splayed stance."

That's different from your typical Marchment style vicious leg whip where it's the attacker who extends a leg wide to make sure he "gets" the checkee.

Now certainly, Peca was trying to send a solid "message" to Lundmark. i don't doubt that for a second. Peca might have even intended to injure in an "impact" way. But i just don't see that Peca was intentionally going after Jamie's knee in the manner of Marchment.

To be sure, Slats appears to agree with your interpretation, Shanwon. Sather is quoted as saying he intends to send the tape to Colin Campbell.

Rodent 12-05-2003 12:04 AM

By the way, I wrote a brief insert to my regular column on Thursday saying that the Peca hit PROVES the Lundmark for Jagr rumor was true.

That's because every time Sather is just about to trade a guy, he goes on I/R.

He had a deal for Richter set up then boom, knee!
He had a deal for Dvorak set up and then boom, knee!
He had another deal for Richter set up and then boom, concussion.
He was going to package Syl Lefebvre when the defensman went behind Sather's back to have knee surgery over the summer.

So who am I to doubt the Lundmark for Jagr rumor given how soon after the rumor broke the kid goes home on crutches?

Of course, kidding aside, if such a deal HAD been submitted to NHL HQ for approval as the Lee Hamilton rumor suggested, neither JJ nor JL would have dressed, precisely to prevent such contingencies from occurring.


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