HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Montreal Canadiens (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Get ready for more Koivu bashing (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=32597)

Maxhab 12-01-2003 05:40 PM

Get ready for more Koivu bashing
 
Well tonights 110% "debate" will be "is saku a good captain and leader"
now im going to hope they actually do this in a fair and impartial way unlike the constant bashing hes been reciving since the start of the season on this show, but with Bergeron, Rejean Tremblay and Marc Bureau on tonight I really really doubt it, at the very least it will be good for a laugh.

Wildcat 12-01-2003 05:47 PM

Being a captain in Montreal has become the kiss of death lately. If you’re not traded by the GM then the Montreal media will trade you.

KillToronto 12-01-2003 05:48 PM

He's done nothing this year.

deandebean 12-01-2003 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxhab
Well tonights 110% "debate" will be "is saku a good captain and leader"
now im going to hope they actually do this in a fair and impartial way unlike the constant bashing hes been reciving since the start of the season on this show, but with Bergeron, Rejean Tremblay and Marc Bureau on tonight I really really doubt it, at the very least it will be good for a laugh.

It'll be funny to say the least.

The problem with this debate is that no one brings any "proof" of Koivu's behavior. Either they're too scared to burn the sources they have, either they have a hidden agenda. I'd rather believe the 1st possibility. But you never know with Michel "Guy Cloutier" Bergeron.

gohabsgo2010 12-01-2003 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillToronto
He's done nothing this year.

How many Habs games have you watched?

6 points in 11 games isn't fascinating, but you have to remember that Richard Zednik and Michael Ryder are two of the bigger puckhogs on the team (as long as they score, I ain't complaining! :D ), so Saku's goals will have to be a direct result of his own effort. Koivu's return sparked both of them, and he's been hustling from Day 1. With three points in his last three games, and a pair of games against Carolina, he'll start to heat up. Missing TC hurts a player big time.

deandebean 12-01-2003 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jl.roberts
How many Habs games have you watched?

6 points in 11 games isn't fascinating, but you have to remember that Richard Zednik and Michael Ryder are two of the bigger puckhogs on the team (as long as they score, I ain't complaining! :D ), so Saku's goals will have to be a direct result of his own effort. Koivu's return sparked both of them, and he's been hustling from Day 1. With three points in his last three games, and a pair of games against Carolina, he'll start to heat up. Missing TC hurts a player big time.

Well, I wouldn't say he's a workhorse. He's been pretty lame the last game. He wasn't even skating. I'm guessing he's still hurt.

Maxhab 12-01-2003 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandebean
Well, I wouldn't say he's a workhorse. He's been pretty lame the last game. He wasn't even skating. I'm guessing he's still hurt.

Well Tremblay has stated that a english journalist told him that Saku is destroying Rivet, wow didnt take him long to quote his "sources"

Zaitsev 12-01-2003 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxhab
Well Tremblay has stated that a english journalist told him that Saku is destroying Rivet, wow didnt take him long to quote his "sources"

what he means by destroying RIVET ?

deandebean 12-01-2003 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxhab
Well Tremblay has stated that a english journalist told him that Saku is destroying Rivet, wow didnt take him long to quote his "sources"


The english journalist is none other than Red Fisher. That's a bombshell if there ever was one thrown by Réjean. Red is VERY close to Rivet and if he finds Koivu selfish, boy...

The show was pretty good. There wasn't great Koivu-bashing. Except for Jean Perron :lol: The worst Habs coach in history, arguably. In fact, Bergeron defended Koivu for most of the show.

You can see that the beat reporters are walking on eggs about Koivu. But there's something wrong with this picture.

Tremblay added something interesting: he quoted someone close to the organisation (a player, no doubt) saying that Koivu was a very bad influence on Rivet. Mmm....

I have one question: who's taking the kids under its wings? Seems no one is... That is not good at all. And that's probably why the likes of Ribeiro and Theo are by themselves all the time: no one took care of them when they came in, like the old guys used to do. Like Gainey did with Carbo and Nilan. Like Robinson did with Ludwig, Chelly and others.

The real question is not "Is Koivu a good captain?" But: "Should Bob get some real leaders to help the kids blend into the team?"

Maxhab 12-01-2003 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaitsev
what he means by destroying RIVET ?

He did not say in what way Koivu was destroying Rivet, all he said was thats what a english journalist told him, Koivu must have some power if he can destroy players around him, I think Saku payed the ref last game to give Rivet the penalty at the end of the game ;)

deandebean 12-01-2003 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaitsev
what he means by destroying RIVET ?


Red Fisher was the journalist that said that Koivu was selfish. But Fisher was not the one that said that he was destroying Rivet. I believe it's a player. Or someone close to the organisation. If it's Fisher, man he's in deep shlit with some players.

Habsolution 12-01-2003 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandebean
Red Fisher was the journalist that said that Koivu was selfish. But Fisher was not the one that said that he was destroying Rivet. I believe it's a player. Or someone close to the organisation. If it's Fisher, man he's in deep shlit with some players.

I'm gonna report it with as much accuracy as I can

The show starts

We see Réjean Tremblay

Tremblay says in french : a very credible journalist whom I have a lot of faith in told me that Koivu was not a good captain and that he was (Tremblay switch to english , for the credibility effect) destroying craig rivet.

Yeah good one Réjean ... did you pull it out of your arse ?

Then Réjean Tremblay goes on and say : I was eating breakfast with a journalist, let's name him , Red Fisher who told me ( switch to english ) he is very selfish .

Oh yeah Réjean ... :shakehead

Dutchy 12-01-2003 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandebean
Red Fisher was the journalist that said that Koivu was selfish. But Fisher was not the one that said that he was destroying Rivet. I believe it's a player. Or someone close to the organisation. If it's Fisher, man he's in deep shlit with some players.

Nah, all Fisher said was that Saku was selfish.

Habsolution 12-01-2003 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchy
Nah, all Fisher said was that Saku was selfish.

Correction : Tremblay said that Fisher said that Koivu was selfish.

deandebean 12-01-2003 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchy
Nah, all Fisher said was that Saku was selfish.


Exactly.

deandebean 12-01-2003 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
I'm gonna report it with as much accuracy as I can

The show starts

We see Réjean Tremblay

Tremblay says in french : a very credible journalist whom I have a lot of faith in told me that Koivu was not a good captain and that he was (Tremblay switch to english , for the credibility effect) destroying craig rivet.

Yeah good one Réjean ... did you pull it out of your arse ?

Then Réjean Tremblay goes on and say : I was eating breakfast with a journalist, let's name him , Red Fisher who told me ( switch to english ) he is very selfish .

Oh yeah Réjean ... :shakehead


I believe Tremblay when he quotes the anonymous player/coach/journalist/whatever. But I guess he won't be eating with Red soon, eh? :lol: Talk about killing a source...

Dutchy 12-01-2003 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
Correction : Tremblay said that Fisher said that Koivu was selfish.

Sorry, I couldn't possibly have been more wrong... :bow:

(IMO,Tremblay is the 2nd worst french speaking journalist covering the Habs next to Newtown)

goalchenyuk 12-01-2003 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jl.roberts
How many Habs games have you watched?

6 points in 11 games isn't fascinating, but you have to remember that Richard Zednik and Michael Ryder are two of the bigger puckhogs on the team (as long as they score, I ain't complaining! :D ),e.

the fact is more that he didn't have a real training camp . so it is absolutly normal thing that he search his game .I am a moderate fan of Koivu , because he is a too injury prone , but i am enought objective to realise that he need time .What is scaring me by now , is more that he seems to have less fire in his play , like if he don't have any pleasure ...i have read 2-3 weeks ago that there will be a lock out , that may be he will considered to stop to play hockey , because of his knees. I didn't pay attention to this article at that time , since i found it not serious ,but now , i am not so sure ...

Habsolution 12-01-2003 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandebean
I believe Tremblay when he quotes the anonymous player/coach/journalist/whatever. But I guess he won't be eating with Red soon, eh? :lol: Talk about killing a source...

First I really don't think Red would lose his time (like us) by listening to 110%. Maybe he will learn about it though.

Second I really don't believe Tremblay when he says he "ate breakfast" with Fisher.

For the record I really don't believe the other crap he said neither.

HABitude 12-01-2003 06:54 PM

In the mini-reportage Francois Gagnon told that in the question period saku Koivu answers all the questions but when the question period finishes, he's very distant with the journalists. Damphousse was more friendly with the journalists, a few times Damphousse took the initiative to have a open talk with a journalist. Gagnon said damphousse was the last good Hab's captain.

One questionable negative concern about Koivu as a captain is that he is close friend with Rivet and never go out with the young kids, they are let alone with themselves. to quote deandebean: “I have one question: who's taking the kids under its wings? Seems no one is... That is not good at all. And that's probably why the likes of Ribeiro and Theo are by themselves ”

Now who with the Hab team will be taking the kids under its wings?
Tought answer. Not Koivu, not the older men who have a family life. I see someone like Souray taking a bit of this responsability, Theodore and Ribeiro. I like the honesty and the direct answer-the-question of Ribeiro.

One thing is sure, something will have to be done in that purpose because there will be a ton of new kids coming into that organisation. Kats, Komi, Higgins, Hainsey, Plekanek, Perezhogin, Archer, Beauchemin, Urquhart, Locke. Kids like Hossa and Hainsey have already their confidence very low because they were drafted by the Canadiens. If they were wearing Flyer's jersey they would have Roenik and co under their wings. Flyers are a team. Canadiens in their good old days were a team.

goalchenyuk 12-01-2003 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandebean


I have one question: who's taking the kids under its wings? Seems no one is... That is not good at all. And that's probably why the likes of Ribeiro and Theo are by themselves all the time: no one took care of them when they came in, like the old guys used to do. Like Gainey did with Carbo and Nilan. Like Robinson did with Ludwig, Chelly and others.

The real question is not "Is Koivu a good captain?" But: "Should Bob get some real leaders to help the kids blend into the team?"

i remember a show where Michel Bergeron was exactly saying that about Koivu .Never talk to the youg guys , only to 2-3 older as Rivest .I think that Bergeron , really don't like this side of koivu because his the captain , so it is to him to keep the players together .

it was on that show that he told also the story about the visit that Koivu have done to the coach to '' said to him that he didn't want to played again with Hossa '' .that was after the night where Hossa scored his fifth goal in a row ....what a team player !

so i could understant why , specialy as a ex-coach , he don't like Koivu very much !

Mike8 12-01-2003 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HABitude
In the mini-reportage Francois Gagnon told that in the question period saku Koivu answers all the questions but when the question period finishes, he's very distant with the journalists. Damphousse was more friendly with the journalists, a few times Damphousse took the initiative to have a open talk with a journalist. Gagnon said damphousse was the last good Hab's captain.

That's a nice and very telling transition. Damphousse is closer with reporters, so Damphousse is a better captain. That's wonderful logic.

Fact: with Damphousse (and minus Muller), Montreal had arguably the most divided, underachieving, soft team in the league. With Koivu, the Habs have a player that makes his teammates better, and more aggressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HABitude
One questionable negative concern about Koivu as a captain is that he is close friend with Rivet and never go out with the young kids, they are let alone with themselves. to quote deandebean: “I have one question: who's taking the kids under its wings? Seems no one is... That is not good at all. And that's probably why the likes of Ribeiro and Theo are by themselves ”

Ryder's played his best hockey on Koivu's wing.

Hossa played his best hockey on Koivu's wing.

How the heck do you or any journalist know what players Koivu talks with or goes out with? I don't believe anyone that makes any presumptions like that.

The reason the kids are 'suffering' and have no one to hold their hand
is because the team is full of flakes who are scared of their own shadow on the ice. Stock the team with more leadership and you'll get kids overachieving. Stock the team with frightened soft little players like Perreault and you'll get kids playing in the same fashion. Simple logic folks.

BTW, since when do these kids need to be coddled and have their hands held? I didn't see a very functional team with veteran leadership in Atlanta, yet that didn't stop Kovalchuk and Heatley from fulfilling their potential at a very young age. Veteran leadership can help certainly, but prospects also need to work their butts off.

HABitude 12-01-2003 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark0v
i remember a show where Michel Bergeron was exactly saying that about Koivu .Never talk to the youg guys , only to 2-3 older as Rivest .I think that Bergeron , really don't like this side of koivu because his the captain , so it is to him to keep the players together .

it was on that show that he told also the story about the visit that Koivu have done to the coach to '' said to him that he didn't want to played again with Hossa '' .that was after the night where Hossa scored his fifth goal in a row ....what a team player !

so i could understant why , specialy as a ex-coach , he don't like Koivu very much !

The thing is: where is the truth in the allegations about Koivu?
The sources comes from Francois Gagnon who was hanging with the team, Red Fisher, Pierre Durocher and Mattias Brunet. If everything mentioned about Koivu is true (specifically the “didn't want to played again with Hossa, that was after the night where Hossa scored his fifth goal in a row”), then everyone should think the same as Bergeron.

The question is : where is the truth in all that?

Raskolnikov76 12-01-2003 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
Fact: with Damphousse (and minus Muller), Montreal had arguably the most divided, underachieving, soft team in the league. With Koivu, the Habs have a player that makes his teammates better, and more aggressive.

Sorry but i don't consider this as fact.

In the last 3 years, i'd say that Théodore is the only habs that really made his teammates better.

Seriously, I'm getting more and more concerned about Koivu.
I already hear some people telling me i'm influenced by the root of all evil aka the French Media..

But from what i heard from Saku in some interviews and by some of his behaviors on the ice with rookies, I had some doubts and this year, well, he hasn't done anything to prove me wrong yet.

The solution is not to trade him (it would not improve the team because i don't think we could have fair value), but we definately need to bring some veterans with good leadership attitude.

That's one reason i think a guy like Quintal still has it's place in the roster for this year.

HABitude 12-01-2003 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
That's a nice and very telling transition. Damphousse is closer with reporters, so Damphousse is a better captain. That's wonderful logic.

Fact: with Damphousse (and minus Muller), Montreal had arguably the most divided, underachieving, soft team in the league. With Koivu, the Habs have a player that makes his teammates better, and more aggressive.

It's not a question of being closer to the journalists, it's a matter of personnality, something Damphousse was born with and can't be learned in books. Damphousse is a better natural communicator. The habs team when Damphousse was the captain was a worse team. Thornton was mis-used ans pissed-off, the coaches were bad, The GM was bad, there was the worsts players like: Lind, Witehal, Montgomery, Savage, Ruzinsky, Brett Clark, Wilkie, Fitzpatrick, Richer, Poulin, Vukota, Manson, Corson. All crap. Today we have a much better team if you take a look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
Ryder's played his best hockey on Koivu's wing.

Hossa played his best hockey on Koivu's wing.

Players with a strong mental like Ryder, Souray or Zednik doesn't need Koivu on his wing. BTW, Ryder is alone, he might play on Koivu's wing but he is not taken care by Koivu outside the rink. Ryder started the season pretty good playing on Perreault's wing.

Hossa played 5 games on Koivu's wing, scored 6 goals then disappeared from Koivu's line, on the request of Koivu to the coach. This is a gossip that needs to be verified. maybe in 15 years Michel Therrien will write a book and we'll know what happened.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
How the heck do you or any journalist know what players Koivu talks with or goes out with? I don't believe anyone that makes any presumptions like that.

Some journalists travels with the Habs, they live all year with them, sometimes listen to confidences off the record. It's been a while we read and listen these gossips about Koivu, you know...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
The reason the kids are 'suffering' and have no one to hold their hand is because the team is full of flakes who are scared of their own shadow on the ice. Stock the team with more leadership and you'll get kids overachieving. Stock the team with frightened soft little players like Perreault and you'll get kids playing in the same fashion. Simple logic folks.

Why pointing Perreault for all the soft players of Montreal? He is just one player, not the entire team. Get over it with Perreault. He might not be your type of player but he scores goals and his overall play is acceptable recently. He do his job and is not a cancer in the locker room. Why bashing him?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
BTW, since when do these kids need to be coddled and have their hands held? I didn't see a very functional team with veteran leadership in Atlanta, yet that didn't stop Kovalchuk and Heatley from fulfilling their potential at a very young age. Veteran leadership can help certainly, but prospects also need to work their butts off.

Once again, quoting Kovalchuk and Heatley as examples of players that does not need to be coddled. They are superstars, not the same thing with Hossa who is obvioulsly skilled but lacks of confidence. We don't have prospects à la “Kovalchuk and Heatley” in our farm. We might have Higgins but the rest is pretty much young kids with lot of potential that need to be taken under leader veterans.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.