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-   -   Official rant, vent, and complain thread. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=327955)

gobolt7 01-02-2007 10:02 PM

Official rant, vent, and complain thread.
Keep it clean and dont attack each other, but feel free to vent away.

Butchered 01-02-2007 10:16 PM

This team blows.

Kristia 01-02-2007 10:19 PM

:banghead: :madfire: :banghead: :madfire: :cry: :cry: That's about as clean as I can make it at the moment..

Maria 01-02-2007 10:22 PM

Fire Torts!!! :madfire:

X0X0A0 01-02-2007 10:24 PM

While I want them to make a trade, I don't know if I trust Feaster not to screw it up.

Tortorella really needs to go, his act only works for a few seasons and it has stopped working.

Ramsay, why didn't we let him go to the Panthers a few years ago?

I would fire all 3, hire interim positions till the offseason, find a young assistant GM ready for a promotion and let him hire his own coach, he will have a solid prospect base, a top pick and a NHL roster that while talented needs to be shaken up and see what he can do with it.

Butchered 01-02-2007 10:27 PM


Originally Posted by The XO Sniper (Post 7532279)
While I want them to make a trade, I don't know if I trust Feaster not to screw it up.

Oh he will. Don't worry.

Yzerplan 01-02-2007 10:31 PM

We're not going to win every game...but hopefully this "trade" is coming soon. If nothing else, its serving as an extra distraction in the background right now so lets get it over with people.

Tortorella isn't going anywhere folks, Feaster himself said that. You don't clean house on management 2 years removed from a Stanley Cup winning season.

gobolt7 01-02-2007 10:37 PM


Originally Posted by The Hockey Hitman (Post 7532392)
Tortorella isn't going anywhere folks, Feaster himself said that. You don't clean house on management 2 years removed from a Stanley Cup winning season.

When you are right at the cap ceiling and 13th in the east, something has to happen. This organiztion has always "claimed" they hold people accountable. Its time to hold the coaching staff accountable.

Butchered 01-02-2007 10:38 PM

So you let them keep going with a dead last PK (still?), a horrible PP, a whole 2 lines that they will actually play? Please.

Enough coasting from past accomplishments. What happend 2 seasons ago should have zero influence over what's best for this team, and what's best for this team is change at the highest level. Feaster is currently in the process of driving this team into the ground.

X0X0A0 01-02-2007 10:40 PM

Agreed, we are right at the cap and last in the SE division. This is Feasters/Tortorellas team and it has failed.

Time for a new system because this one clearly does not work.

Butchered 01-02-2007 10:43 PM

I don't even think for most fans it's a matter of getting rid of Torts because it's Torts. It's more that he just refuses to make any sort of adjustments other than his absolutely mind blowing line combos. He refuses to change a system that hasn't worked for over an entire season, so unless Feaster wants to put the heat on him and FORCE him to change the system, he needs to go. Bottom line.

Butchered 01-03-2007 01:37 AM

I don't know if it's the fact I watch about 5 Lightning games for every non Lightning game I watch, but I just finished with St. Louis and Chicago, and it seems so different. It's weird watching guys on the PP, and actually moving the puck QUICKLY, getting open shots, moving, cycling. They aren't rushed at the blueline, the puck isn't jumping out of the zone every time a pass is made.

Oh yeah, every other team in the league hits too, maybe Tampa should give it a shot sometime.

Cyrrus147 01-03-2007 05:23 AM

Hello! Habs fan here. I just would like to share my tough on your team after watching 4 games Bolts vs Habs.

The first thing I always wonder is , why having two no 1 center who cost together nearly 14 M$ (more than the quarter of the total team payroll). They are both extremely good and probably in the top 10 center in the league but with the salary cap problem , I am not sure that you can afford those guys.

The second thing that bug me was in the first game Habs vs Bolts, Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St-Louis and Brad Richards played over 30 minutes, which is something I never saw for a forward. The Bolts had the edge for the first two periods but they couldn't hold the pace in the third and finally lost the game in the last minutes.

Finally, Torterella seems to played always the same 10 guys ( Top 4 Dman + Line 1 and 2). In my opinion, it not the best thing you can do to improve your team chemistry and you put a lot of pressure on the most active players. I know that your first two lines are much better than your line 3 and 4 but on a long term basis, I don't see how it can be positive for your team. Plus if one of your key player is injured, your team is doom since your others players didn't get much icetime before and will suddenly need to step up.

I heard a lot of rumors about Feaster trading Fedotenko or Prospal but I don't see how it could solve the Bolts problems. Those guys value are kinda low at the moment and maybe you could get a ''risky defenseman'' (like Brewer) but if you trade those guys, all your team offensive success will depend of the same 3 players (Lecavalier, St-Louis, Richards). If one of them goes on a cold streak, it can seriously hurts the offensive potential of the Bolts.

Just watch the teams who had success in the last decade (mainly in playoff and including the 2003-2004 Bolts), they all had 4 strong lines who could each do their defensive job and even score goals (even the 3rd and 4th lines were capable offensively).

From what I saw, I am not sure that the chemistry is very good inside the Bolts lockeroom. First the team seems to work only with threats coming from the coach and the GM. But the problem is , if you can keep pressing on the panic button, soon enough, it just won't work anymore. We had Michel Terrien in Montreal who was using the same tactics, after a few years the players stop listening to his treats and finally got fired. But the problems with the Bolts is that the treat are coming from the GM too! Plus when four players are receving 50% of the total payroll + 40% of the total ice time, I don't think that the others players are happy about it.

I am not sure how the Bolts can fix their problems and I won't pretend that I am better than Feaster or Torterella (I am just a hockey fan like each and everyone of you), but I think that if you could trade one of your no 1 center (either Lecavalier or Richards) , you could receive in exchange a few strong players who could greatly improve the lineup .... Just look at the Lindros exchange in the early 90's. The Nordiques trade a all star player , Eric Lindros, (who was 18 at the time) for a bunch of players (including Peter Forsberg , Ron Hextall and a few 1st round pick) and those guys really improve the Nordiques lineup.

Anyway guys, I am sure the Bolts will find a way to improve the situation, you have a extremely interesting team and I hope that it will only get better for you.


Tokala 01-03-2007 06:59 AM

Quit stick checking!:banghead:

And, would someone please go to the front of the net!:madfire:

gobolt7 01-03-2007 09:59 AM

Oh look, another 50% off ticket sale, people all around me will be sitting in their seats for alot sheaper than I will. When do I get my renewel again?

No-Twitch Tabitha 01-03-2007 11:03 AM

We need a complete overhaul--starting at the top! Feaster especially needs to go bye-bye. If other NHL teams can do it, WHY...WON'T...WE?! :banghead: :banghead:

Torts, I love you, man, but it isn't working anymore. You'd think that someone with kids would know that screaming only works for so long. :madfire:

X0X0A0 01-03-2007 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by gobolt7 (Post 7536378)
Oh look, another 50% off ticket sale, people all around me will be sitting in their seats for alot sheaper than I will. When do I get my renewel again?

Tickets are not selling because the team is not winning.

Slow ticket sales and a payroll at the ceiling won't work for too long before the payroll is slashed, hopefully the Lightning realize this and shake up the front office first.

ImaPuckhead 01-03-2007 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by The Hockey Hitman (Post 7532392)
We're not going to win every game...but hopefully this "trade" is coming soon. If nothing else, its serving as an extra distraction in the background right now so lets get it over with people.

Tortorella isn't going anywhere folks, Feaster himself said that. You don't clean house on management 2 years removed from a Stanley Cup winning season.

I happen to diagree with that(and here is why)

Torts system worked well when you could clutch and grab more but in the NHL I have not seen either coach (Torts and Rammer) adjust their system. The power play has sucked for 2 years. Players do not check bodies but go for the puck first. That is what this coaching staff teaches (heard straight from Torts on Fan App day this season). When you could hold more if you missed the poke check you could grab the player as he went by you and that worked really well. Now you cannot and when you do not get the puck the player is around you and you cannot hold him up and to the net he goes.

Talent wise I do not think we are far from a good team and I actually think if we were more physical in our end we would win a lot more battles and be a lot more successful.

The players are playing hard and the effort is there I just think in the current system everything has to fall in line for us to win and that is happening a lot less than it used to.

At the end of the day unless we get some superstar goalie that will save those 2 or 3 a game that our current goalies give up in key moments we will continue to lose more than win. Trading Prospal and or Feds for an equal player will not help us.

And someone please tell me Feaster was blowing smoke when he said we were looking for a puck carrying defense man. Like we need another soft defenseman!


No-Twitch Tabitha 01-03-2007 12:13 PM

I don't HH was saying that a team shouldn't clean house 2 seasons removed from the Cup; he was stating what FeasterTorts believes as conventional wisdom.
However, I do agree with IP.

MW: I catch every game I can with the NYI (my original team) and the CBJ and I find it refreshing, if not a little tragically funny, to watch how other teams play the game. How 'bout that color game last night?

Butchered 01-03-2007 02:42 PM


"It's frustrating, very frustrating," center Brad Richards said. "I'm as much at a loss for words as anybody. I don't have the answer."

"We have to keep attacking the problem and some of the mistakes we make and get better as a club," coach John Tortorella said. "It comes down to big plays at key times, good and bad. That's how you win hockey games."

"I thought I would surprise him by going to the blocker side," Lecavalier said of Huet. "He made a pretty good save, but I wish I had gone top glove. It's easy to say now."

"We are in a good spot going into the third period and we have a chance to score, and we don't get the lead on the breakaway," Lightning coach John Tortorella said. "Then we get beat out of the corner, and they score the third goal. We still have some work to do on details in trying to find our way to get some consistency here."

"It's the worst," center Brad Richards said. "There are only so many phrases to come up with. We all know the cliches and we seem to keep using them. We have to simply find a way to get some consistency in our game. Those of us who have been here know what the coaches want us to do. We just have to get it done."

"It's the same old story, we are in it and kind of let it slip, this time halfway through the third period," defenseman Dan Boyle said. "It seems like it has been two years now for the guys who were here last year. It seems to be the same. We just can't seem to get going. It's very frustrating."
Just a few interesting quotes from players after the last game. Seems like us fans aren't the only ones who know something is wrong in Tampa.

I bolded that quote from Torts. 40 games in and you're still looking for consistency? It's a little late for that coach. If you can't have your players in form by this point of the season, you won't ever have them there. Yet another reason he needs to be fired.

Tbboltfan4 01-03-2007 03:34 PM

This season has been very frustrating. Just when you think they are going to go on a nice long winning streak, they lose games. We win two of three and look unstoppable, and then we lose games and look like a totally different team.

The goaltending the big problem, plain and simple. Marc Denis was thrown into a situation he could not handle. And although Holmqvist has done alright, he is definitely not impressive in my books. Yes he has more wins than Denis...but it seems like every one of those games, he gives up at least 3 goals and he just wins because he gets good offensive support that game. Dang how I wish we could of made a trade to get Nabokov last year...

Yes its easy to say letting Bulin go was a bad mistake...but everyone forgets we had Marty and Vinny to resign, and remember where Bulin was last year? On the IR. And Cullimore? IR. And Stillman? IR. And Kubina? Been on the IR a lot this year. I'd rather have kept Vinny, Marty, and Brad with their great duribility over those guys who have all been hurt most of the time since they have left our team.

Another thing that totally irritates me is our lack to hit and set the tone. Im a huge fan of power forwards...and no wonder I was so pissed off during the 2003 draft when we had a chance to draft Anthony Stewart and traded down the pick to FLA. Yes, Stewart hasn't totally panned out yet, but I felt at the time, he was EXACTLY the type of player we needed on the offensive side. I wish Vinny would hit more, with the type of size he has. Same thing with Ryan Craig....and alot of others. We are probably the wussiest team in this league when it comes to toughness, and we definitely need to shake up that part.

I don't know if a shakeup either in the roster or the front office will help out, either one or both...but yes something has to be done here. These streaks we go thru are getting very old and its just not going to get it done right now. There is still a lot of hockey to be played and we definitely have a chance to make a good run and claim a playoff spot. The powerplay has been getting better, which is good. The defense is playing okay...but its not impressive. Our goaltending needs to step it up, because your never going to win a Stanley Cup without good goaltending and a good defense (gee, sounds like someone this year...maybe Anaheim?).

If there was a chance we could somehow make a deal with the Rangers to try to get Al Montoya, I would love that. I saw him play some games...and I was VERY impressed with him. I don't know if we can offer enough for him...but I would love to see him in a Lightning uniform.

Although I am frustrated by this team's play, im not complaining. Just remember, not so long ago, we were the laughing stock of hockey, and in professional sports. I definitely remember watching them play every game here in DC from 1999-2003 without NEVER seeing them win until game 4 of the 2003 playoffs aganist the Caps. We have been thru far worse than this, and if we could get thru it before, we sure can do it now.

Gopper 01-03-2007 04:10 PM

Fire Feaster!

That is all.

OptimismRestrainer 01-03-2007 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by Tbboltfan4 (Post 7539884)
Although I am frustrated by this team's play, im not complaining. Just remember, not so long ago, we were the laughing stock of hockey, and in professional sports. I definitely remember watching them play every game here in DC from 1999-2003 without NEVER seeing them win until game 4 of the 2003 playoffs aganist the Caps. We have been thru far worse than this, and if we could get thru it before, we sure can do it now.

It's a completely different thing when you are the laughing stock of the NHL and when you are 2 seasons off of a Stanley Cup. Yea, we've been through far worse but not after winning a Cup just a short time ago.
We, as fans, expect more and tolerate much, much less and we all know that if this team fails to perform this year then we will once again become a laughing stock. No one here wants that.

Hockeyfan02 01-03-2007 10:59 PM

This is probably going to be long, but Iíve been thinking a lot the last two days.

I donít think anyone should be happy with how the team is playing. I donít act like every game is life and death for this team, but itís getting to the point where the more the losses pile up the closer to someone losing their job or getting traded. Right now, I donít think this team will be able to turn it around with Torts. Heís a very good coach, but his shelf life is only a few years like others have pointed out. He was a big part in turning this team from a laughing stock to a playoff team to a champion. Iíll always like the guy, but I think this team has tuned him out. He simply hasnít adjusted to the ďnewĒ NHL. His system was perfect pre-lockout to beat the trap. Well, the trap is dead right now and teams are playing the same aggressive system but are better at it. He hasnít adjusted the system. Itís on this coaching staff that the defense continues to stick check instead of playing physical at the blueline. Other teams step up at the blueline and put pressure on the puck carrier. This team lets them skate in and do what they want. Itís ridiculous. This team does not give up a lot of shots, but the fact that the last two years goalies have save percentages under .900 has to be partly the defenseís fault as well.Another thing that was supposed to be worked on in the off-season was the special teams. Well the PK is dead last and power play is middle of the pack. Power play is slightly better percentage wise and ranking. PK has actually regressed. I donít think losing Modin is that much of an effect on the PK. Whatever they are doing on the PK hasnít changed one bit and they are continually getting burned on it. If this team takes more than 3 penalties, itís a lock the other team will score. The Montreal fan has it right. Torts continues to wear down the big stars on this team and shows no confidence in the lower lines. When this team went to the cup the lower lines got sufficient ice time and the top two lines werenít overworked. Thatís why this team would dominate third periods in the past. The forecheck was able to take over to give team fits because everyone was fresh. This team has been a disaster in third periods. I wouldnít be surprised if there is a big negative margin in the GF/GA in that period. I donít see why guys like Tarnasky, Alexeev, Craig are given so little minutes. They can be effective players if given ice time. Mike and I noticed how well they were playing on Tuesday, itís because they were given that ice time. Torts shows no confidence in those lower lines and that in turns ruins their confidence. Guys who struggle and have ice time cut like Prospal and Afansenkov because they arenít doing the job. Guys like Tarnasky ride pine because Torts doesnít have confidence in them. Those are my main problems with the coaching staff. Iím sure there are others, but those stick out to me.

As for Feaster, well I donít know whatís going to happen with him. If ownership is tired of him, they will fire him after this year. I have a feeling that Torts will be fired before that. If it doesnít work, well heís obviously the next to go. I have to question his ability to make moves. Pre-lockout he did alright. The team needed help early and he took a big gamble in trading Pitkanen for Fedotenko and draft picks. Eventually Lukowich provided some depth on the blueline and Fedotenko was a big part of a cup win. Bringing in Grahame was a good move in 02-03. He pushed Khabi and helped the team out when Khabi struggled. Trading Svitov for Sydor solidified the blueline. He accomplished that goal well before the deadline and allowed Sydor to learn the system and be an effective player. Jay shut the revolving door and made some very good trades. Then, the lockout happened and the wiping out of the 04-05 contracts. To me, thatís where Jayís downslide began. Itís not an excuse as he should have adapted but I think Jay was between a rock and a hard place from the start. He did his best to keep Khabi and Khabi took the money, I have no problem with Nik for that. Itís his choice and heís looking to provide for his family beyond his playing career. Obviously after that, he couldnít afford to lose Vinny, Boyle, or Marty. I think he gave Marty too many years to avoid losing him. I think he overpaid for Richards when he didnít have to. He didnít want to have another Khabi incident. Putting that much money in to those players has obviously hurt. Thatís all on Jay. The big problem on this team has been goaltending. Once Khabi left, he put way too much faith in Grahame. Brining in Burke to ďchallengeĒ Grahame for the job was basically giving John the job on a silver platter. Iím not sure who else he could have brought in at that point, but a goalie who could have challenged John more would have been better. I donít think bringing in Denis was a bad move, but I think giving up Modin was too much. It seemed like a panic move to make the fans happy and try to shore up the need. I donít disagree with the motive behind the move, I disagree with the price paid. People would have been PISSED if Jay did nothing and had two of Norrena/Holmqvist/Burke as the combo heading in to the year. Anyone who says they wouldnít have been unhappy about thatÖwell Iím not going to argue back, I think youíre full of **** if you try to argue that point to be frank. Fact of the matter is that Jay has failed to get a #1 goalie. That and the overpayment of players is a big reason why this team is in trouble. I also think he did nothing to improve the ďsandpaperĒ effect in the offseason. He did nothing in that regard. Alexeev is the only player that might fit that mold, but he simply isnít that physical of a player. Solid signing, but not a ďsandpaperĒ signing. Tarnasky was on the team last year. He did bring in Kuba and Perrin as good signings in the offseason, but those arenít ďsandpaperí players. He did bring in Roy after the start of the season, but like other 3rd/4th line players heís been buried on the bench. Iím not sure if heís going to have the guts to pull off a big move. I donít think Afansenkov and Karlsson being waived are going to do anything. Iíll hold some judgment of that off if thereís a bigger move made, but I donít think thatís going to fix things. I think Jay may have to deal one of the big 3 to improve this team. If they can get a young scoring forward, 1st round pick, and a young top 4 d-man in return for one of them (except for Lecavalier who IMO should be the only one off the block), I would hope Jay would at least listen.

As for the problems with the team itself. Thereís no depth at forward. This team had two dangerous scoring lines, a solid checking line, and a gritty 4th line. Watch the final two games against Calgary. Watch the top two lines generate chances. Watch Iginla be shutdown by the Andreychuk line, watch the 4th line wreak havoc in the offensive zone with the hitting and forechecking. Right now this team has two guys who it can count on every night, a struggling top center, a decent scoring line player (Perrin), two underachieving top six forwards, some solid bottom line guys (Alexeev, Tarnasky, Craig, Roy), and two guys I donít think bring much of anything in on-ice play (Taylor, Karlsson). Thatís not going to get the job done in this league. I think better complimentary players are needed and a better checking line For the defense now. I donít love Dan Boyle and think heís great and give him a free pass for every mistakeÖbut I donít get the hate on the guy, or the need to rip him for every mistake, or think this team is better without him. Lose him and there is virtually no offense from the blueline. I think the problem is that Boyle is playing 30 minutes a night as this teamís #1 dman. He isnít a Pronger/Lidstrom/Niedermayer. He should be a #2/#3 playing around 22 minutes a game instead of 30. I think he would be much better in that role. He flourished in that role pre-lockout. When this team had depth, he played closer to those minutes and was a much better player. Itís another case of Torts wearing a player down. I think Kuba is solid. Few problems with him. Pratt is solid when he doesnít try to do too much. Ranger has regressed this year, heís lost some confidence. Sarich plays well when heís physical but thatís rare. Richardson is a disaster and thankfully heís off the books next year. Janik is just a #6/#7 guy. Heís right in his role.

Sorry for the novel, but I just started typing with the stuff Iíve been thinking about the last two days. I donít expect you to read it all or agree with me on everything. Iím usually pretty optimistic and donít get too down about loses. But the inconsistency has really got me down. Changes need to be made on this team. Not to fix this year only, but to get this team back on track for the future as well to be a competitive team. I donít think the current regime will be the ones making those changes. I think complacency with the on-ice tactics and the roster will be the end of them.

Yzerplan 01-03-2007 11:24 PM

Some great posts all throughout this thread...

You know I was thinking about this at work today, you know, instead of concentrating on work....lol

But I was thinking what if we do need a coaching change? I must admit, I have a bit of a soft spot for Torts and Rammer...these guys took us to the promise land...

I hear Jay and I read about Jay saying how the coaching staff isn't going anywhere....

The more I think about, you guys could be on to something here.

I don't think we're at the point yet though. I think we need to let them finish out most of the season...if the Lightning fail to make the playoffs yes, new coaches need to be put in place. If they make barely make the playoffs, and have another disappointing first round loss, then new coaches.

I just wouldn't want to see those two tossed when the eastern conference standings from 5th to 14th are still so close.

Now I know your probably saying, alright well thats great lets wait until theres no hope of making the playoffs...

well I just think we should give them this amount of time to make it work.

Feaster needs to make a trade, because like I stated before if nothing else its serving as an unecessary distraction in the background that the boys in the locker room don't need to be worrying about.

I can understand why some want coaching changes made...I almost feel like the kid who found out Santa Claus isn't real, but still wanted to believe....

know what I mean?

please, continue this conversation though, good stuff guys.

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