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Afino 12-02-2003 07:11 PM

Contraction Opinions
 
1. Do you think contraction, in some form or another, is the answer to a better NHL?

2. If so, How many teams should be contracted?

3. WHICH teams should be contracted??

added section....

1a. If you don't think teams should be contracted, what options would you pursue for a better NHL?? Salary cap? Salary floor? Rules??

Big McLargehuge 12-02-2003 07:13 PM

1. hell no
2. 0
3. none

King of Kelvington 12-02-2003 07:20 PM

1. yes
2. Six

3.
NJ --> fan support non-existent
Ana ---> league joke
Car ---> cant compete with cars running circles for 5 hours???
Atl ---> if not only to have ilya in a dispersal draft
Pit ---> long time comming, no arena...bye bye
Fla ---> no support

triggrman 12-02-2003 07:25 PM

Let me some this up for you as you must have missed the last post on this. Kovalchuk is a better goal scorer than Gaborik, but "Gabby" is a better two-way player. Comrie won't play for Edmonton and almost ever player is going to the Oilers once this year in a trade for him, as well as every prospect and he'll probably be traded for 4 fourth liners. Tootoo is a pest, but not the best, his name and his illegal hits have everyone talking about him being the first Inuit to be traded, only it won't be to the Pens as they are dumping salary, Thornton scored more when he shot more, ESPN doesn't show enough hockey, hockey is bigger in Canada, fighting is up and goals are down but ESPN still won't show it, Nash can light the lamp so can Kovalchuk, they're both selfish players or just talented goal scorers and Gaborik is the better two way player, New York Rangers aren't the only team in the city struggling to win, Pens are dumping salary, LA has injury problems, Dallas too, Tampa looks good the Caps don't, Jagr to Detroit, to New York, Joseph to New York to Colorado, Hasek is hurt, Ovechkin is the top prospect this year, Crosby is next, Kovalchuk can score some goals, some stuff about Kariya, Thornton, and the Rangers payroll.

BCCHL inactive 12-02-2003 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCJr
NJ --> fan support non-existent
Ana ---> league joke
Car ---> cant compete with cars running circles for 5 hours???
Atl ---> if not only to have ilya in a dispersal draft
Pit ---> long time comming, no arena...bye bye
Fla ---> no support

NJ) Get a better building, and the fans will come.
ANH) Western Conference Champions.
CAR) Rebuilding after Stanley Cup run.
ATL) One of the better young teams in the NHL.
PIT) I agree. New ownership is desperately needed.
FLA) Keenan is gone. This team could be dangerous in a few years, and they will get support with success.

In other words, Pittsburgh is the only team in danger right now. Other than possibly moving the Penguins (move...not contract), do not touch any of the other teams.

VsTheWorld 12-02-2003 07:27 PM

1. It would help.

2. 2

3. Anaheim and Florida. Because the last good year of hockey was before these teams came around. Plus they introduced the now common but ugly uniform.

Unthinkable 12-02-2003 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
Let me some this up for you as you must have missed the last post on this. Kovalchuk is a better goal scorer than Gaborik, but "Gabby" is a better two-way player. Comrie won't play for Edmonton and almost ever player is going to the Oilers once this year in a trade for him, as well as every prospect and he'll probably be traded for 4 fourth liners. Tootoo is a pest, but not the best, his name and his illegal hits have everyone talking about him being the first Inuit to be traded, only it won't be to the Pens as they are dumping salary, Thornton scored more when he shot more, ESPN doesn't show enough hockey, hockey is bigger in Canada, fighting is up and goals are down but ESPN still won't show it, Nash can light the lamp so can Kovalchuk, they're both selfish players or just talented goal scorers and Gaborik is the better two way player, New York Rangers aren't the only team in the city struggling to win, Pens are dumping salary, LA has injury problems, Dallas too, Tampa looks good the Caps don't, Jagr to Detroit, to New York, Joseph to New York to Colorado, Hasek is hurt, Ovechkin is the top prospect this year, Crosby is next, Kovalchuk can score some goals, some stuff about Kariya, Thornton, and the Rangers payroll.

Nicely done. Only thing you left out is that the Devils are the most boring team in the league, the trap and defensive systems in general are killing the sport, we need way more goals, because of course thats the only exciting thing in hockey, and that Martin Brodeur's stats are largely a result of the team he plays behind. On any other team he'd be horrible. :teach:

BCCHL inactive 12-02-2003 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unthinkable
Martin Brodeur's stats are largely a result of the team he plays behind. On any other team he'd be horrible. :teach:

Funny...he seemed to do just fine for Team Canada at the 2002 Olympics.

Unthinkable 12-02-2003 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Funny...he seemed to do just fine for Team Canada at the 2002 Olympics.

That was sarcasm Van. Just repeating what I see written fairly frequently on here.

thestonedkoala 12-02-2003 08:58 PM

Contract the Wild. People hate them, they are getting a WHL team in soon, and people hate them.

Waveburner 12-02-2003 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Contract the Wild. People hate them, they are getting a WHL team in soon, and people hate them.

People hate watching them-there is a difference.

Burke's Evil Spirit 12-02-2003 09:09 PM

The league doesn't need to contract, there is plenty of talent. It just looks like there isn't any due to how fast the league introduced expansion franchises. They added 9 teams in like 7 years, so of course you're going to see a lot of bad hockey. They should have done it for like 15 years or so.

thestonedkoala 12-02-2003 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waveburner
People hate watching them-there is a difference.

If people hate watching them, then they should be contracted because they aren't going to be bringing in fans in the next 5 years right?

BCCHL inactive 12-02-2003 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Contract the Wild. People hate them, they are getting a WHL team in soon, and people hate them.

Sorry, you're mistaken. The WHL has no current plans to expand.

Rowsdower 12-02-2003 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
Let me some this up for you as you must have missed the last post on this. Kovalchuk is a better goal scorer than Gaborik, but "Gabby" is a better two-way player. Comrie won't play for Edmonton and almost ever player is going to the Oilers once this year in a trade for him, as well as every prospect and he'll probably be traded for 4 fourth liners. Tootoo is a pest, but not the best, his name and his illegal hits have everyone talking about him being the first Inuit to be traded, only it won't be to the Pens as they are dumping salary, Thornton scored more when he shot more, ESPN doesn't show enough hockey, hockey is bigger in Canada, fighting is up and goals are down but ESPN still won't show it, Nash can light the lamp so can Kovalchuk, they're both selfish players or just talented goal scorers and Gaborik is the better two way player, New York Rangers aren't the only team in the city struggling to win, Pens are dumping salary, LA has injury problems, Dallas too, Tampa looks good the Caps don't, Jagr to Detroit, to New York, Joseph to New York to Colorado, Hasek is hurt, Ovechkin is the top prospect this year, Crosby is next, Kovalchuk can score some goals, some stuff about Kariya, Thornton, and the Rangers payroll.

You left out that the Pens are an AHL team.....oh and have you heard they are a disgrace to the league?

Sarcasm aside.....nicely done :handclap:

Mowzie 12-02-2003 10:03 PM

Contraction is not the answer.

There are alot of ways to improve the state of the game.
-they can enlarge the nets a bit.
-4 on 4 for the full game, not just overtime.
-trim rosters from 23 to 19
10 forwards
7 defenseman
2 goalies
this would lower each teams overall payroll and would mean that instead of having 23x30=690 players in the league, you'd have 19x30=570; that would eliminate alot of the "less skilled players" that we are all talking about, 120 of them to be exact. This would open the game up alot more and force teams to break away from the trap.

theres also alot more that can be done, but these are just a few ideas that have been kicked around.

contraction is a stupid man's solution, and im not saying gary bettman is stupid......well, actually, i am, i think he' stupid. but there are tons of other things that could be looked at.

thestonedkoala 12-02-2003 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Sorry, you're mistaken. The WHL has no current plans to expand.

Sorry meant WHA.

lux_interior 12-03-2003 12:07 AM

1. Do you think contraction, in some form or another, is the answer to a better NHL? Yes

2. If so, How many teams should be contracted? 10

3. WHICH teams should be contracted??

Detroit
Toronto
Montreal
Chicago
New York Rangers
Boston Bruins
(Who needs the original six)

Calgary
Vancouver
Edmonton
Ottawa
(Hockey is Canada, Canada is Hockey...pfffft

I'm just kidding. I just loathe contraction threads. Of course that brings up the question, why the heck do I always open them.

garry1221 12-03-2003 01:00 AM

a salary cap won't do much of anything, if it's a hard cap then the players making the big bucks now would just laugh at being 'forced' to take a paycut so such and such a team could keep under tha cap, the RFA rule as it stands now is what's killing finances, most rfa's you have to add 10 % to re-sign? ... gimme a break, i can think of a few players who wouldn't be making what they are now, but thanks to that GM's hands' are tied in the sense that they've gotta pay em to field a team

as for ideas, i brought one up awhile back, still think a variation of it could work, but the basic idea is for a base salary type of system, salaries could either be based upon the players age or the number of years they've been in the league

18 - 24 yrs old or 1 - 6 seasons: $400k - 950k base
24 - 33 yrs old or 7 - 15 seasons: $ 950k - 1.85 mil base
34 yrs and up or 15 + seasons: $400k - 3 mil base

add on bonuses/incentives and you've got a financially healthier league, a player doesn't meet his incentives too bad, but he still gets paid his base salary, i would put a cap on bonuses at around 4 or 5 mil if a vetran player thinks he's worth 8 mil then let him prove it, as for the last $$ stat i have, my reasoning is this: a vetran player who's been in the league a decade or more has a full spectrum of $ so as a team wouldn't have to overpay mind you the numbers on either side can be tweaked a little, but i pretty much feel the numbers are fine the way they are, the nhlpa probably wouldn't go for anything like this, but i'd bet the owners would eat it up in a heartbeat

just out of curiousity, say you're the arbitrator for the nhlpa, what would you do to tweak this idea so it would work from both sides, when i first put this up i got some flak for it, but IMO it's a reasonable solution, if a player don't play up to what he says he can play then it's his issue to deal with,

agentfouser 12-03-2003 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garry1221
a salary cap won't do much of anything, if it's a hard cap then the players making the big bucks now would just laugh at being 'forced' to take a paycut so such and such a team could keep under tha cap, the RFA rule as it stands now is what's killing finances, most rfa's you have to add 10 % to re-sign? ... gimme a break, i can think of a few players who wouldn't be making what they are now, but thanks to that GM's hands' are tied in the sense that they've gotta pay em to field a team

as for ideas, i brought one up awhile back, still think a variation of it could work, but the basic idea is for a base salary type of system, salaries could either be based upon the players age or the number of years they've been in the league

18 - 24 yrs old or 1 - 6 seasons: $400k - 950k base
24 - 33 yrs old or 7 - 15 seasons: $ 950k - 1.85 mil base
34 yrs and up or 15 + seasons: $400k - 3 mil base

add on bonuses/incentives and you've got a financially healthier league, a player doesn't meet his incentives too bad, but he still gets paid his base salary, i would put a cap on bonuses at around 4 or 5 mil if a vetran player thinks he's worth 8 mil then let him prove it, as for the last $$ stat i have, my reasoning is this: a vetran player who's been in the league a decade or more has a full spectrum of $ so as a team wouldn't have to overpay mind you the numbers on either side can be tweaked a little, but i pretty much feel the numbers are fine the way they are, the nhlpa probably wouldn't go for anything like this, but i'd bet the owners would eat it up in a heartbeat

just out of curiousity, say you're the arbitrator for the nhlpa, what would you do to tweak this idea so it would work from both sides, when i first put this up i got some flak for it, but IMO it's a reasonable solution, if a player don't play up to what he says he can play then it's his issue to deal with,

i like your idea, and i think its definitely worth discussion, but if incentives are the engine driving players' take home earnings, then you're basing an awful lot on statistics. i mean, what if joe schmoe knows he gets another million if he can net that 30th goal, and he's nearly got it, so starting around game 75 his passing disappears? and how do you pay for intangibles? pretty tough to have a "lockerroom presence" clause. team goals could be good, though, like if the winner of the stanley cup wins a cash prize to split among the team.

bottom line, however, is that the guys who put up the best numbers aren't necessarily the ones who should be earning the most.

triggrman 12-03-2003 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unthinkable
Nicely done. Only thing you left out is that the Devils are the most boring team in the league, the trap and defensive systems in general are killing the sport, we need way more goals, because of course thats the only exciting thing in hockey, and that Martin Brodeur's stats are largely a result of the team he plays behind. On any other team he'd be horrible. :teach:

I have to save something for today's contraction thread. :D

garry1221 12-03-2003 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navigator
i like your idea, and i think its definitely worth discussion, but if incentives are the engine driving players' take home earnings, then you're basing an awful lot on statistics. i mean, what if joe schmoe knows he gets another million if he can net that 30th goal, and he's nearly got it, so starting around game 75 his passing disappears? and how do you pay for intangibles? pretty tough to have a "lockerroom presence" clause. team goals could be good, though, like if the winner of the stanley cup wins a cash prize to split among the team.

bottom line, however, is that the guys who put up the best numbers aren't necessarily the ones who should be earning the most.

true true... that's one thing i forgot about when typing this up... same thing was brought up last time... it'd be a stretch, but i think if something like u said could be worked out as incentives, as far as the locker room presence clause goes... i'd say it's pretty easy to figure out who the big leaders r in the locker rooms and i'd say that'd be factored into the base salary, i like the idea of the team goals .... the basis of my idea stems from the outrageous contracts of yashin/jagr and the overpaid role players ... for example devereaux .... hasn't lived up to his 1.4 mil salary last year then this year although showing good signs now, i still am leery of giving him 1.6 mil...but hopefully he proves me wrong this year and shows he deserves what he's making

Liquidrage* 12-03-2003 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Funny...he seemed to do just fine for Team Canada at the 2002 Olympics.

Yes, because that team sucked without him :lol:

SingnBluesOnBroadway 12-03-2003 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
NJ) Get a better building, and the fans will come.

I disagree. Even if they do get a new building it will be in Newark. And Newark does not make it all that easier to get to unless you are coming from Manhattan. And that is not where the fanbase is coming or not coming from. The Devils have been arguably the best team (and best run franchise) in the East for the past 10 years and the fans still stay away in droves. I don't understand it but I don't think the building is the problem. This is a team that had playoff and Stanley Cup tickets available the day of the game. That does not indicate to me that the building is the reason why the fans are not coming.

Zhackpot 12-03-2003 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
NJ) Get a better building, and the fans will come.
ANH) Western Conference Champions.
CAR) Rebuilding after Stanley Cup run.
ATL) One of the better young teams in the NHL.
PIT) I agree. New ownership is desperately needed.
FLA) Keenan is gone. This team could be dangerous in a few years, and they will get support with success.

In other words, Pittsburgh is the only team in danger right now. Other than possibly moving the Penguins (move...not contract), do not touch any of the other teams.


How the hell does a better building bring fans in. They got newer buildings in Florida and Tampa and nobody goes. A new building might be the draw for a year or two tops after that it is the team and the sport that must fill the stands.

Until ticket prices go down you will never see stong fan support in most cities.

Flames were wrapping up one of their best homestands in recent years (went 4-0-1-1) so were 3-0-1-1 going into last night's game. Should have been a good crowd based on recent performance and two exciting games against Colorado and Vancouver.

Analyst John Garrett on last night's Flames broadcast may have said it best regarding today's NHL. This is not a direct quote but a paraphrasing: A six game homestand is too long. Fans will pick and choose the games they want to see because they can't afford them all.

And again as I have been preaching. The NHL is a gate driven league and will continue to be for years to come. As such, ticket prices have to come down and the only way to accomplish that is for player's salaries to fall drastically, something the players will never allow to happen.


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