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-   -   Souray & markov...Max 4Mil (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=330958)

clvmcs 01-10-2007 07:52 PM

Souray & markov...Max 4Mil
 
If Sheldon wants over 4 mil... he can skate to LA !!
Lets not forget All the highlight reels on his defensive abilities on times
Same for Markov 3.5-4 or walk.
This team has had its hands tied tooooo f..... much by greedy players.

mcphee 01-10-2007 07:54 PM

Then who plays D next year ?

ChemiseBleuHonnete 01-10-2007 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvmcs (Post 7624876)
If Sheldon wants over 4 mil... he can skate to LA !!
Lets not forget All the highlight reels on his defensive abilities on times
Same for Markov 3.5-4 or walk.
This team has had its hands tied tooooo f..... much by greedy players.

don't worry, be happy...

JMMR 01-10-2007 07:58 PM

I really believe Bonk and Johnson will not be back and the habs willl have a less expensive backup. There are places where the Canadiens can trim some fat. They could both get more and be in Montreal especially with the possibility of the cap going up as well.

AD 01-10-2007 07:58 PM

Yes!!!

Finally clvmcs gives us his take on this issue... :phew:

I can go to bed now.











*Sorry I'm still at work and I get *****y and sarcastic when I'm tired

bjac 01-10-2007 07:59 PM

Letting Markov go would be taking several steps backwards. He is the closest thing to a #1 D that we have, and there won't be anything better available on the market for a puck moving defensemen. I would definately give him more money than you would (up to 5 million). Realistically I could see him being signed to a Kaberle type of deal.

Ross MacLochness 01-10-2007 08:01 PM

I think Gainey kind of set the bar siging our Captain and best player to a 4.75 million contract, which will probably set the stage for Souray leaving. I mean if Markov keeps his current pace he should be good for about 4.5-5.0 million max. There is no way on earth we are paying Souray over 5 million to play for us, which is what his market value will probably be. I like Souray and appreciate what he's done for us, but it's just doesn't look like it's going to happen. Good for him if some idiot GM gives him 6 mil, but it won't be Gainey.

I see Markov signing for 4.5, we lose Souray, Abby, Niinimaa, 1 of Bonk and Johnson, and go find ourselves a skilled defenceman who can move the puck and resign all our FA's. Possibly add a veteran scorer as well.

Chfan 01-10-2007 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvmcs (Post 7624876)
If Sheldon wants over 4 mil... he can skate to LA !!
Lets not forget All the highlight reels on his defensive abilities on times
Same for Markov 3.5-4 or walk.
This team has had its hands tied tooooo f..... much by greedy players.

Yeah then we lose our 2 best defensemens.... After that even if we sign some UFA def (obviously not as good as the 2 we didn't sign) our defense will look like that:

UFA - Komisarek
Bouillon-Rivet
Dandenault-Jancevski

???

That's even worst than the Brisebois-Dykhuis-Traverse-Laflamme time...

BLONG7 01-10-2007 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slip Slidin' Slim (Post 7624964)
I think Gainey kind of set the bar siging our Captain and best player to a 4.75 million contract, which will probably set the stage for Souray leaving. I mean if Markov keeps his current pace he should be good for about 4.5-5.0 million max. There is no way on earth we are paying Souray over 5 million to play for us, which is what his market value will probably be. I like Souray and appreciate what he's done for us, but it's just doesn't look like it's going to happen. Good for him if some idiot GM gives him 6 mil, but it won't be Gainey.

I see Markov signing for 4.5, we lose Souray, Abby, Niinimaa, 1 of Bonk and Johnson, and go find ourselves a skilled defenceman who can move the puck and resign all our FA's. Possibly add a veteran scorer as well.

I think you are right...Koivu's contract will be used as the measuring stick, and if a player thinks he is more important to the team than Koivu, and wants more money, he may be looking elsewhere...that being said, I think both Markov and Souray will want to stay, especially if the Habs continue to have a good season, and hopefully a good playoffs...

GoHabsGO252006 01-10-2007 08:05 PM

I think a total of 10M per season between the two should be sufficient to get a deal done. The split between the 2 I'm not sure, but the Habs have the room to put 10M on them and I think that's what we'll see. Markov with a much longer term then Sourray though, perhaps 5 and 3 respectively.

The way he's playing right now I think we may very well see the last of Rivet as a Hab. I just can't fathom BG signing Rivet unless it's for a very low nominal salary in the 1.5M max range. He is not worth more. He is not better than Dandenault or Bouillon.

Maddas* 01-10-2007 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvmcs (Post 7624876)
If Sheldon wants over 4 mil... he can skate to LA !!
Lets not forget All the highlight reels on his defensive abilities on times
Same for Markov 3.5-4 or walk.
This team has had its hands tied tooooo f..... much by greedy players.

:biglaugh:

Nice one.

MTL-rules 01-10-2007 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjac (Post 7624947)
Letting Markov go would be taking several steps backwards. He is the closest thing to a #1 D that we have, and there won't be anything better available on the market for a puck moving defensemen. I would definately give him more money than you would (up to 5 million). Realistically I could see him being signed to a Kaberle type of deal.

"Closest thing to a #1 D"??? If Markov is not a no1 d-man, I wonder who is? Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara, Niedermayer, Kaberle, Phaneuf and that's it?...There's at least 25 unhappy teams who can't have a no1 d-man then...

Not only Markov is a no 1 d-man, but so is Souray (1st all-star team, may I remind you all!)...we got the chance to have 2 great d-men and it's a big part of the reason this team is that good this year, we got to keep both at (almost) all cost...a 10mil between both would be nice...depends of the market.

GoodKiwi 01-10-2007 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AymanD (Post 7624936)
Yes!!!

Finally clvmcs gives us his take on this issue... :phew:

I can go to bed now.

:biglaugh:

:bow:

:biglaugh:

Fozz 01-10-2007 08:22 PM

The number one thing has to be signing Markov long term. Hopefully, a 5 year-4.5M/y deal will be enough to keep him around.

Cyrrus147 01-10-2007 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvmcs (Post 7624876)
If Sheldon wants over 4 mil... he can skate to LA !!
Lets not forget All the highlight reels on his defensive abilities on times
Same for Markov 3.5-4 or walk.
This team has had its hands tied tooooo f..... much by greedy players.

Without Souray and Markov , this team is fighting with the Florida Panthers for the 13th spot.

Do you realise that Souray have 36 pts in 42 games?? And 11 Power Play goals !!

Markov is one of the most mobile defenseman in the league, most of the time he is flawless defensively and he is a premium passer in the NHL. And he didn't even hit his prime yet!

Can you imagine our PP without Markov and Souray?

Why do you think that our power play is first in the league?
Because of Kovalev? Koivu? Ryder? I don't think. Yes our coach are great but it doesn't explain why.

Souray have one of the best shot in the NHL. His shot is now accurate, strong and quick. Markov is always in movement, his passes are accurate and quick, he's often the reason why Ryder, Koivu and Kovalev can score so easily on one timer.

Souray is so dangerous at the point that alone he can mesmerize 1 or even 2 opposite players. That leave 2 or 3 guys who have to check the 4 others Habs players. And if they leave Souray alone, he will score at least 30% of the time on his first shot.

I know that some won't agree, but even at 5 or 5,5M$ each I would resign them. Hockey is like any other sport, with a good defense, you can go anywhere, even at the Stanley Cup. When your defense is build , than you can start to work on your attack.

I know that Souray is not perfect defensively, but the offensive contribution of Souray is so important, mainly on the PP, that we can't afford to lose him, even for a second line center.

The NHL is a league of a special team. You need a good PP or/and a good PK. Otherwise you will have trouble sooner or later.

Teufelsdreck 01-10-2007 08:55 PM

I think that establishing Koivu's present salary as an absolute ceiling for all players would be rigid and stupid. Koivu will be around for a couple of years, but in the meantime losing Markov and Souray would cripple the team for longer than that. There's no Dman prospect in the system who could replace either one. I don't believe there's a clause in Koivu's contract that says he must be the highest paid player on the team. And let's face it, as good and as beloved Koivu is, having Markov for the next 5 years is more critical to the Habs. It would also be nice to have Souray. Naturally, Gainey and the rest of the front office will try to work things out with the two of them.

Ross MacLochness 01-10-2007 09:12 PM

Regarding Koivu, it's not necessarily an absolute ceiling in terms of money. And obviously Koivu would never demand in his contract that he be the highest paid, but when I thnk of us signing Souray for 6 million, it just doesn't sit right. That's not the way Gainey operates. Souray is in his contract year and everything he touches turns to gold. It seems whenever he goes near the puck he gets a goal or assist. He'll likely never duplicate this years numbers again. He's part of the core of this team and been here for while, so that's why its tough for me to see him go. But I think we can lose Souray in the summer and still become a better team if we spend our money wisely.

Talent Analyst 01-10-2007 10:16 PM

Seriously , Souray may want 5.5 millions and Markov 5 or 6 millions . Due of the OVERPAY BRYAN MCCABE and Markov deserve 5 or 6 millions .

Guy Caballero 01-10-2007 10:20 PM

You really don't understand the salary cap NHL at all, do you?

Schooner Guy 01-10-2007 10:37 PM

I'd go all the way up to $5.5 million for Markov. I just can't fathom what we'd be like without him. He's one of the most underrated players in the game. He's been excellent for us at both ends the last two years, was great for Russia in last year's Olympics, and is entering his prime.

I love Souray but he won't be worth the money that is going to be required to keep him. He's having a great free agent year but he's had a history of injuries and I can see him dropping off next year back to 2005-06 level of play. I really do like him though as a leader and for his toughness. He's just not worth $5-6 million per year in a long-term deal.

RE-HABS 01-10-2007 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvmcs (Post 7624876)
If Sheldon wants over 4 mil... he can skate to LA !!
Lets not forget All the highlight reels on his defensive abilities on times
Same for Markov 3.5-4 or walk.
This team has had its hands tied tooooo f..... much by greedy players.

Seeing the struggles of Ottawa and Edmonton on D only makes resigning both of these players even more sense! I guarantee it will take 12 million combined to keep Markov, Souray and Rivet...10 million between Souray and Markov alone.

We have a lot to sign in Ryder, Higgins and Kommy too...players like Bonk, Johnson and Abby are gone because the re-signing will be too much on the cap and players like Lapierre, Kosts and Grabby are ready too not to mention maybe even players like Chip and a surprise player like Milroy.

We have a depth at forward, but not on D so Bob will spend there and I wouldn't be surprised to see Samsonov traded too if Gainey can swiing it.

Westcoasthabsfan 01-10-2007 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee (Post 7624889)
Then who plays D next year ?

Ryan O'Byrne and Dan Jancevski may be ready to make the jump to the big club next year....

Cyrrus147 01-10-2007 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan (Post 7627205)
Ryan O'Byrne and Dan Jancevski may be ready to make the jump to the big club next year....

You want to replace Souray and Markov with AHlers? Well at least we can pick a good defenseman with our 1st overall pick in 2008.

Westcoasthabsfan 01-11-2007 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 (Post 7627345)
You want to replace Souray and Markov with AHlers? Well at least we can pick a good defenseman with our 1st overall pick in 2008.

One of them will resign for sure...My guess is Markov..... and if you read my post I said may....

nyhabsfan 01-11-2007 05:04 AM

The key Will be Samsanov
 
We have 4 big contracts that come off the books next year not incuding players we want to re-sign.

Niimiinnaa
Bonk
Rivet
Johnson

That's a significant amount of money, but the KEY IMO is if we can get rid of Samasnaov's $3.5 million dollar contract next year. Right now, you can't give him away, but if he has a strong second half and playoffs, we could get rid of him and sign both Souray and Markov for around 5 million a piece.

What i am afraid of is that we only sign one (probably Markov) and then re-sign Rivet who has been horrible this year and I think is done unless he wants under $2 million to be a #5 dman.

The trade deadline will tell us more, but Souray is worth $5 million in the current market, and so is Markov. The only question is how does this fit into Mr. Gainey's plans.


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