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-   -   Theo is overrated..... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=33544)

Top Corner2 12-05-2003 02:21 AM

Theo is overrated.....
 
While we are on the topic of media hype and unrealistic and unwarranted praise. Is it just me who has noticed that "Theo can do no wrong" this year.


I'll admit he is playing much better than last year. But he is not the goalie he was two years ago. The media seems reluctant to mention this...in fact they talk about glorious performances when I've left the Bell center thinking "we might have won if Garon was in nets".

Mats NAslund 12-05-2003 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Corner2
While we are on the topic of media hype and unrealistic and unwarranted praise. Is it just me who has noticed that "Theo can do no wrong" this year.




I'll admit he is playing much better than last year. But he is not the goalie he was two years ago. The media seems reluctant to mention this...in fact they talk about glorious performances when I've left the Bell center thinking "we might have won if Garon was in nets".


Interesting because I was reading an old Sport Illustrated (from before the season started) and they have Theodore ranked as the number 8 goalie in the league which is about right. I also beleive that Theodore is overated by the Montreal media but on the same token I do beleive he's a good goalie. Also in the SI magazine Garon was mentioned as having a greater upside to Theodre comparing him to Patrick Roy.

Darz 12-05-2003 03:46 AM

Hmmm.....it some respects I believe certain fans and media members might overrate Theo, but on the other hand I think a bigger percentage of fans UNDERRATE him (at least the ones I have dealt with). There is no doubt in my mind Theodore is a top 3 goalie (top 5 at the very worst) in this league. When he is on his game he is as good as any goalie around, as proven 2 years back.
To state Garon's upside is higher than Theodore's just proves my point. Theodore has proven he is capable of being mentioned with the top players in the NHL, while Garon has still not proven a whole lot. I'm not knocking Garon. Then again that was in SI, and what they know about hockey could fill a,......um...... a pamphlet (with few words, mostly pictures).

Habsolution 12-05-2003 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Corner2
While we are on the topic of media hype and unrealistic and unwarranted praise. Is it just me who has noticed that "Theo can do no wrong" this year.

I'll admit he is playing much better than last year. But he is not the goalie he was two years ago. The media seems reluctant to mention this...in fact they talk about glorious performances when I've left the Bell center thinking "we might have won if Garon was in nets".

I agree. Theo is even more overated than Ribeiro. Each and every saves are just another miracle if we go by what Houde and Pedneault say. It's really annoying. But I usually mute them and listen to CKAC instead.

Back to Theo

I think that Theo has been average so far this season. But Theo has always been a slow starter. He gets better as the season goes on. He has only started to play better.

Last season he didn't train enough and went into camp out of shape. He started the year poorly (and that's generous) but he picked up his play by season's end. If we go by what happened in the past he'll be back to top 5 goalie shape by season's midpoint in time for a strong push for the playoffs. I'd compare him to Belfour in that aspect.

If we forget about last season and think only about the 20 games he has played so far this season I'd say he's not worth the 5.5 M as he has been average so far IMO. But if he improves as the season goes on like he has in the past 2 years I'd say he's worth it.

ChemiseBleuHonnete 12-05-2003 03:47 AM

yes, it's very true

Habber 12-05-2003 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Corner2
While we are on the topic of media hype and unrealistic and unwarranted praise. Is it just me who has noticed that "Theo can do no wrong" this year.


I'll admit he is playing much better than last year. But he is not the goalie he was two years ago. The media seems reluctant to mention this...in fact they talk about glorious performances when I've left the Bell center thinking "we might have won if Garon was in nets".

It seems to me that there's a lot of people that compare Theo to "two years ago". What does two years ago mean? Two years ago at the beginning of the season or two years ago in the playoffs?

Theo was great two years ago, but he wasn't super-fantastic outstanding every single game. He was solid the first two months with some good and bad outings. Then his play got better and better as the season progressed and he hit his peak and really started lighting it in February or March. There was no mention of Theo for Vezina talk before Christmas that year. It seems to me that it was into January when everyone started noticing him.

Theo has this stigma around him and all anyone can remember is the last month of the season and the playoffs and he's constantly being compared against that performance. That's not fair. No goalie can play at that high a level all season long. So of course when people hold the bar so high he’s going to seem overrated.

All we can expect from Theo, or any elite goalie, is to play solid most nights and improve as the season progresses. I watched pretty much every game two years ago, and have watched pretty much every game this year and I think he’s been just as good this year as he was that year. He had a few shaky starts but has been steadily improving and really starting to enter the zone. The last few games he has been very sharp and is making things look easy. When you say Garon could have won some of those games is also unfair. How can you blame Theo for an easy night? Also I think you should watch him a little closer on those nights. Theo has been making it look easy because he’s never out of position and doesn’t have to make the big glove save.

Sorry for the rant but I tire of negativity towards Theo. You can’t compare him to the Theo of two years ago so early in the season.

Habsolution 12-05-2003 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habber
...
Sorry for the rant but I tire of negativity towards Theo. You can’t compare him to the Theo of two years ago so early in the season.

I agree. You've made good points.

I think we'll be able to fully appreciate the worth of Theodore by season's end.

goalchenyuk 12-05-2003 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habber
It seems to me that there's a lot of people that compare Theo to "two years ago". What does two years ago mean? Two years ago at the beginning of the season or two years ago in the playoffs?


How can you blame Theo for an easy night? Also I think you should watch him a little closer on those nights. Theo has been making it look easy because he’s never out of position and doesn’t have to make the big glove save.

Sorry for the rant but I tire of negativity towards Theo. You can’t compare him to the Theo of two years ago so early in the season.

:handclap: very good post Habber .all i would like to add is that i think we have to understand that 2 years ago , Theo had a season enought good that we can call it '' carrer best performance ''.so don't expect him to have another season like this one , every year..

Cloudigger 12-05-2003 05:32 AM

I am not a big fan of Theo but its hard to argue that is at least a top 10 goaltender.... and I will even say he is probably in the top 6 of this league... me and my friends tried to make a list on wich no one (of us) could argue that those goaltenders (based on recents year and on this year) are better then théo

It went like this
Brodeur
Belfour
Turco
Lalime
and maybe Khabibulin or Joseph (we dident put Hasek there cause we havent seen much of him this year and he dident play last season, same goes for Roy not playing right now)

while some fans from other teams ( and some montreal fans) could argue about others goalie it would be just that : arguiing...

Agalloch 12-05-2003 05:50 AM

True and how about him winning the Molson cup for the last 3 months...I think there are other players who were deserving those cup.

Mats NAslund 12-05-2003 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st4ticx
True and how about him winning the Molson cup for the last 3 months...I think there are other players who were deserving those cup.


Like Sourray didn't deserve it more then Theodore. Sourray has been a pilar from the beginning of the season both offensively and defensively. He's by far our best player this year and that includes Theodore! Theodore gets the Molson cup because he's french. If Sourray was french he would have won it hands down.

Agalloch 12-05-2003 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats NAslund
Like Sourray didn't deserve it more then Theodore. Sourray has been a pilar from the beginning of the season both offensively and defensively. He's by far our best player this year and that includes Theodore! Theodore gets the Molson cup because he's french. If Sourray was french he would have won it hands down.

well, I really don't think it only because he's french, the reason must be because he's a fan favorite.

Wildbeliefs 12-05-2003 06:12 AM

I'm going to refrain from comparing him to the god-like state he was in 2 years ago. There's no point; I'll always be disapointed.

I won't call any goalie elite after only one great season, nor would I call that same goalie garbage after one bad season. In my opinion, his Vezina-winning performance and last year cancel out. And if I look at this year, yes he's had some pretty bad nights were rebound control was inexistant and those soft goals surfaced here and there, but all in all, I'd have to say that Theo's been pretty good so far. And he's been getting better.

Is he worth $5.5M? I don't think ANY player is worth that after only one good season. But you have to admit that when he's on his game, he's pretty darn good. Here's hoping he eventually stays on permanently. :)

SuperUnknown 12-05-2003 06:13 AM

In Montreal we have a fascination for goaltenders... Hackett was winning the Molson Cup too when he was the starter in Montreal.

Heck, Theo won the Molson Cup several times last year. :P

Agalloch 12-05-2003 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smail
In Montreal we have a fascination for goaltenders... Hackett was winning the Molson Cup too when he was the starter in Montreal.

Heck, Theo won the Molson Cup several times last year. :P

Do you think it's because of Patrick Roy... :dunno:, because I like goalie and just don't know why!

Joe Cole 12-05-2003 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st4ticx
True and how about him winning the Molson cup for the last 3 months...I think there are other players who were deserving those cup.

The Molson Cup is a marketing driven award. It is just one more opportunity that they can say the words....MOLSON.

Never pay any heed to who wins that thing. While it is not an entirely popularity driven award, the results are so skewed towards the popular players, it takes away any credibility it ever may have had.

It's just that silly.

The three stars are whoever you think they are.

FerrisRox 12-05-2003 09:47 AM

I think if anything Jose Theodore is under-rated in Montreal.

It would take him being traded away and doing exactly what he's doing here somewhere else for the fans to realize how good he is.

Hmmm... that scenario sounds familiar.

goalchenyuk 12-05-2003 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats NAslund
Like Sourray didn't deserve it more then Theodore. Sourray has been a pilar from the beginning of the season both offensively and defensively. He's by far our best player this year and that includes Theodore! Theodore gets the Molson cup because he's french. If Sourray was french he would have won it hands down.


with that kind of logic we are going nowhere .. what would you think if i answer you that if souray was french you woudn't have wrote that he deserved to won the Molson cup , precisly because he 's french !!!
( that's not what i think , just want to show you that way of thinking )

i don't know if i am alone to think like, that but sometime i find frustrating all the comments about the language or the origin of the players or the media ..
please can we all stoped to use the words FRENCH or QUEBEC or ENGLISH, etc, in our post ...:yo:

Mooch 12-05-2003 11:13 AM

Actually i have a american satalite, and get to watch a lot of the hab games (if not all). Hes not only poular around here in canada, specifically montreal, but also in the US. You often hear while watching the games on American broadcasting that Theo is an excellent goaltender and is a big part of the habs future. So the hype is not just here but everywhere.

Anksun 12-05-2003 11:19 AM

[QUOTE=Cloudigger]I am not a big fan of Theo but its hard to argue that is at least a top 10 goaltender.... and I will even say he is probably in the top 6 of this league... me and my friends tried to make a list on wich no one (of us) could argue that those goaltenders (based on recents year and on this year) are better then théo

It went like this
Brodeur
Belfour
Turco
Lalime
QUOTE]

Well I disagree... :)
(not for Brodeur of course, he's the clear number 1...)

Mooch 12-05-2003 11:39 AM

[QUOTE=Anksun]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloudigger
I am not a big fan of Theo but its hard to argue that is at least a top 10 goaltender.... and I will even say he is probably in the top 6 of this league... me and my friends tried to make a list on wich no one (of us) could argue that those goaltenders (based on recents year and on this year) are better then théo

It went like this
Brodeur
Belfour
Turco
Lalime
QUOTE]

Well I disagree... :)
(not for Brodeur of course, he's the clear number 1...)

I would probably also asd Tb goalie Nicolhia HAbiboolin (cant spell his name, LOL!)

Bud The Spud* 12-05-2003 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st4ticx
Do you think it's because of Patrick Roy... :dunno:, because I like goalie and just don't know why!

I am wondering about that too :D

TheCrazyGoalie 12-05-2003 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Habber

...
Sorry for the rant but I tire of negativity towards Theo. You can’t compare him to the Theo of two years ago so early in the season.


Couldn't agree with you more Habber. You are bang on. Right now Theo is on pace for a 12 shutout year. Not bad for an "average goaltender".

Guy Caballero 12-05-2003 05:20 PM

Name 3 goalies you would trade theo for right now, all things considered. I'd be hard pressed to trade him one up for any other keeper, let alone 3. Maybe Luongo, but who knows. We KNOW Theo is capable of dominating the league. Who else is out there now that is under 30 can we say that about?

Tuggy 12-05-2003 05:30 PM

This is complete BS....why are people doubting the one superstar we have. Theo was amazing again tonight! And if we manage to get into the playoffs he will be the #1 reason! Theodore is an all-star and is in the top 5 in netminders in the league. Why do people want to play Garon over him? We got one point tonight and you want to know why? #60, that's why. I'm sure you peeps will change your opinion when he leads us to the playoffs but don't worry the Theo bandwagon will let you back ;) As for me I never doubted our #1 goalie....there is only one goalie I would rather have then him....Brodeur but thats it.

Being Habs fans you should realize that our defense is....to be fair sub-par. He is left out to dry on many occasions. Rather then being over-rated I would say that he is under-rated by fans. He is our best chance at winning hockey games and if you think that Garon would give us just the same chance then you are sadly mistaken.

Sorry if I sound harsh but I really get tired of Theo bashing. He is our best player and I just wish people would realize that and treat him with respect.


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