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-   -   Sens Muckler: Forget the Bonk to Isles rumour (also Stars looking at Sens) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=33581)

officeglen 12-05-2003 06:25 AM

Sens Muckler: Forget the Bonk to Isles rumour (also Stars looking at Sens)
 
See article: ALL TALK, NO ACTION

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa Sun but not Garrioch
"We have nothing going at this particular time that is serious," Ottawa GM John Muckler said last night. "Nothing whatsoever."

Muckler's team was being followed in Florida, however. Stars GM Doug Armstrong and pro scout Paul McIntosh attended both Wednesday's game against the Panthers and last night's tilt in Tampa.

"I'd say they like somebody on our team," guessed Muckler. "That doesn't mean we're about to do anything. We're not talking now. Have we talked in the last two weeks? Sure we have."

But Muckler scoffed at the rumours that have the Senators sending Radek Bonk to the New York Islanders for Mike Peca.

"I can't make any comment on that," he said when asked the "would you do that one?" question that Ottawa hockey fans have most certainly been asking each other the past 24 hours or so. "But there have been no talks (with the Islanders).

"There is no truth to that rumour."

When Muckler starts attending the games of the other teams in question, that's when things will get serious.

BigDaddyGarrioch 12-05-2003 06:58 AM

I don't see him openly admitting to a trade. Of course he is going to brush off the notion of trading away players; the team is starting to play well and there is no sense in clouding their heads with trade talks.

officeglen 12-05-2003 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyGarrioch
I don't see him openly admitting to a trade. Of course he is going to brush off the notion of trading away players; the team is starting to play well and there is no sense in clouding their heads with trade talks.

Muckler needs to follow Mad Mike's example of being a long time GM, and let it all hang out, regardless of clouding heads or other demotivating activities.

Let's look at those Stars comments from another view. Muckler confirms they have recently talked, and he suggests the Stars would like to get somebody from the Sens. While he is seemingly brushing off trading away players, his inability to flat out deny (should he have?) means there is still the possibility of something developing between the Sens and Stars.

Edit: meant to say "inability to flat out deny"

Slats432 12-05-2003 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by officeglen
Muckler needs to follow Mad Mike's example of being a long time GM, and let it all hang out, regardless of clouding heads or other demotivating activities.

Let's look at those Stars comments from another view. Muckler confirms they have recently talked, and he suggests the Stars would like to get somebody from the Sens. While he is seemingly brushing off trading away players, his ability to flat out deny (should he have?) means there is still the possibility of something developing between the Sens and Stars.

A friend of mine made a comment yesterday and it made a lot of sense.

Muckler saying that they aren't doing anything and the team is going to stay the way it is, gives the players a sense of security and they play without the stress of thinking a deal is on the way so you get a true assessment of the player.

A player then plays poorly, then you blow him out.

Starsdude 12-05-2003 07:51 AM

My guess is pretty much anybody other than Turco and perhaps Morrow is available from the Stars and they used to be in love with Havlet. What would the Sens need/want?

officeglen 12-05-2003 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsdude
My guess is pretty much anybody other than Turco and perhaps Morrow is available from the Stars and they used to be in love with Havlet. What would the Sens need/want?



The Sens are negotiating with Alfie for a contract extension (he is a UFA at the end of this year). If they reach contract terms, it means that Hossa and Alfie are the #1 and #2 RWs for the upcoming years, so Havlat is a #3 RW, which seems to be a waste of top line talent (though Havlat gets first unit PP time). So it is just possible they might move Havlat, if they reach contract terms with Alfie.

What they want in return: Morrow, Morrow, or even Morrow. Other options lose too much in age, add too much in salary, or donít provide enough skill. Having said that, perhaps Jere Lehtinen would be considered, as he can play LW, and was resigned to a four year deal, paying him $2.6M this year, and Jacques Martin would love him so much he would have his babies after the necessary sex change.

In previous threads discussing Havlat, Morrow, or Lehtinen resulted in some non-constructive postings, as the fans generally like these players a lot, and donít want to see them move. So Iím not sure if we should toss these names around lightly.

Perhaps we should instead debate the safer Bonk for Arnott type deal.

Edit: Please see TSN article: TSN: Senators out of Peca sweepstakes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSN Article
The Senators main need is for a gritty left winger.

Morrow, Morrow, Morrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSN Article
Sources are saying that under no circumstances does Ottawa plan on trading Volchencov or any of their other young defencemen.

So if the Sens want somebody Morrow-like, and don't want to give up a young D, then it will take somebody like Havlat to make it happen. However according to the terms of the Sens fans charter, we are obligated to first offer you White and Schastlivy for Morrow, and we are willing to explain in great detail why that is a terrific deal (did you know Schastlivy has a great shot?).

Starsdude 12-05-2003 08:31 AM

I guess this has been hashed over then pretty good. Would Ott and a first for havlet be even close. Ott seems to be patterning himself after Brendon and despite low point totals with lousy linemates has been good.

Spezza 12-05-2003 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsdude
I guess this has been hashed over then pretty good. Would Ott and a first for havlet be even close. Ott seems to be patterning himself after Brendon and despite low point totals with lousy linemates has been good.

Don't think its near. Honestly, it's a step back for Ottawa. If Ottawa trade Havlat it better be for a P/F LW type.

officeglen 12-05-2003 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsdude
I guess this has been hashed over then pretty good. Would Ott and a first for havlet be even close. Ott seems to be patterning himself after Brendon and despite low point totals with lousy linemates has been good.

No to Ott. Too much name confusion with Ottawa, and Ott is that prototype 3rd line pure energy player, not the first line power forward. Picks are useless to this year's Cup run, now that we are back running again, albeit behind the leaders.

Here is my guess what may have happened (pure guess). The Stars phoned Mucks and ask what it will take to get Havlat. Answer is Morrow. They say no thanks but we will think about it. Then a week or so later they have some time and nothing else happening, so they go on the road to watch Havlat, trying to determine what he will develop into. If after watching him closely they think he will turn into a all-star player when paired up with Modano and given plenty of ice time, then they will offer Morrow. If they determine he will be very good but not great, then nothing will happen from their scouting of the Sens. Hence Mucks says they like somebody on the Sens, but no talks are going on right now.

ginner classic 12-05-2003 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by officeglen

The Sens are negotiating with Alfie for a contract extension (he is a UFA at the end of this year). If they reach contract terms, it means that Hossa and Alfie are the #1 and #2 RWs for the upcoming years, so Havlat is a #3 RW, which seems to be a waste of top line talent (though Havlat gets first unit PP time). So it is just possible they might move Havlat, if they reach contract terms with Alfie.

What they want in return: Morrow, Morrow, or even Morrow. Other options lose too much in age, add too much in salary, or donít provide enough skill. Having said that, perhaps Jere Lehtinen would be considered, as he can play LW, and was resigned to a four year deal, paying him $2.6M this year, and Jacques Martin would love him so much he would have his babies after the necessary sex change.

In previous threads discussing Havlat, Morrow, or Lehtinen resulted in some non-constructive postings, as the fans generally like these players a lot, and donít want to see them move. So Iím not sure if we should toss these names around lightly.

Perhaps we should instead debate the safer Bonk for Arnott type deal.

Edit: Please see TSN article: TSN: Senators out of Peca sweepstakes?


Morrow, Morrow, Morrow.



So if the Sens want somebody Morrow-like, and don't want to give up a young D, then it will take somebody like Havlat to make it happen. However according to the terms of the Sens fans charter, we are obligated to first offer you White and Schastlivy for Morrow, and we are willing to explain in great detail why that is a terrific deal (did you know Schastlivy has a great shot?).

I have been suggesting this since the summer and am glad to see i am not alone. Your comments about Sens fans stating essentially that Havlat is not available are pretty damn funny. Stars fans feel the same about Morrow. With Guerin and Arnott on the top two lines the Stars have a pretty good supply of PF types and also have Barnes who brings a lot of grit. Losing Morrow hurts the future a bit but getting Havlat in return should more than make up for it. I think the Sens are going to make a choice between Hossa and Havlat and I think that even though Havlat has incredible skill and a wonderful upside that you have to go with Hossa on this one. I can't see all three of those guys staying in Ottawa unless Havlat can be shifted to centre of learn how to be effective on the left side.

Even without making a big deal I think these teams are going to turn it around but they both would benefit from giving their forward lines a slightly different look.

Egil 12-05-2003 09:15 AM

I would assume Muckler would ask for Morrow +, and not just Morrow. But that is just me...

Puck 12-05-2003 09:25 AM

Normally, it would make good financial sense to let Alfie go as a UFA and just let the less expensive Havlat graduate up the ladder. But Alfie is very important to the Sens, more than the stats indicate. The Sens take a big step back losing Alfie. The Sens will make an effort to re-sign Alfie but not at any cost. If Alfie goes then Havlat stays. If Alfie signs a long term deal and Havlat starts to become too expensive... then I figure the Sens will deal down the road. Hossa is out of the question...don't even entertain thoughts.

All this is NOT for this season though...and if things work out, maybe not for next. IMHO.

discostu 12-05-2003 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by officeglen
However according to the terms of the Sens fans charter, we are obligated to first offer you White and Schastlivy for Morrow, and we are willing to explain in great detail why that is a terrific deal (did you know Schastlivy has a great shot?).

:lol:

That's Excellent! :joker: You also forgot to mention Kaigordov in there as well. He's usually thrown in to the mix.

Darth Milbury 12-05-2003 09:57 AM

I personally believe Muckler on this one. Peca for Bonk was too one sided, even if the Isles added picks or whatever.

discostu 12-05-2003 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck
Normally, it would make good financial sense to let Alfie go as a UFA and just let the less expensive Havlat graduate up the ladder. But Alfie is very important to the Sens, more than the stats indicate. The Sens take a big step back losing Alfie. The Sens will make an effort to re-sign Alfie but not at any cost. If Alfie goes then Havlat stays. If Alfie signs a long term deal and Havlat starts to become too expensive... then I figure the Sens will deal down the road. Hossa is out of the question...don't even entertain thoughts.

All this is NOT for this season though...and if things work out, maybe not for next. IMHO.

If Alfie re-signs, I wonder if the Sens will re-visit putting Havlat on the left-wing. He never was that effective there, but the Martin didn't really experiment with it too much. Perhaps, they figured that once Alfie leaves, that Havlat would be back to his natural position anyways, and it was better to let him develop properly in the position he was most accustomed to. If Alfie's around long-term, then it makes more sense to get Havlat on the top two lines.

SensGod 12-05-2003 11:57 AM

The only trade I want Muckler making at this point is getting Bredan Morrow in a Sens uniform where he blelongs.

I don't care if it costs us Havlat...just get it done!

Fantasywonder 12-05-2003 11:59 AM

I don't see the Stars trading Morrow, if he would, I would personally offer Mike Peca and a little something else for him from my Isles.

Darth Milbury 12-05-2003 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensGod
The only trade I want Muckler making at this point is getting Bredan Morrow in a Sens uniform where he blelongs.

I don't care if it costs us Havlat...just get it done!


Morrow is a stud! Love to have him in an Islander uniform!

officeglen 12-05-2003 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Morrow is a stud!

Excellent. We will trade for him, breed him like there is no tomorrow, and, some years later, PF everybody to death.


Edit: To help everybody else when starting a new thread please indicate in CAPS if your thread is one of the few not involving Peca and/or the Islanders, such as Trade Proposal for Comrie, Remember Him??? NOT A PECA/ISLANDERS proposal!

Darth Milbury 12-05-2003 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by officeglen
Excellent. We will trade for him, breed him like there is no tomorrow, and, some years later, PF everybody to death.


![/i]

You trying to get me fired? What do you think it does for my rep here when people walk by my office and hear me lauging my head off? :D


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