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-   -   Guy Carbonneau = Part of the Problem! Game 2 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=340458)

Somethings Habining 02-04-2007 10:55 AM

Guy Carbonneau = Part of the Problem! Game 2
 
If Guy Carbonneau wants to turn things around with his team he needs to start with himself. You cannot keep piling all the blame on your players when you are equally as culpable and not doing everything you can to help your team win.

As I’ll undoubtedly get flamed, I’ll keep to one issue so everyone try to stay on point.

BENCH MANAGEMENT

In order to have your team play its best you have to ensure that the shifts are kept short and that your players finish a 60 minute game without there “tanks being drained”.

Successful coaches keep their players average ice time to 45 seconds or less.

Shifts that are longer contribute to the build up of lactic acid in the muscles that the body cannot re-absorb quick enough. This leads to a dramatic drop in performance and translate to weak passes, bad or slow decisions, losing one-on-one battles and the taking of penalties.

In the recent loss to the Islanders, http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...7/ES020784.HTM out of 18 players only one had a shift average of 45 seconds or less and that was Maxim Lapierre at 45 seconds exactly. Of all the rest 3 players had shifts that averaged over 1 minute, all 3 play on the top 2 lines, have been unproductive in the goal scoring department lately and are some of the worst +/- players on the team.

You can look up the stats for all of the losses this year and a disturbing pattern of excessive shift times accompany almost all of the losses.

This is the coaches’ responsibility to control, and as Guy Carbonneau said he and Kirk Muller cannot get on the ice and help the team but they need to start doing their job if they expect to put their players in a position to succeed.



Ahhhhhh…………………. I feel better now. :)

Garry Valk 02-04-2007 11:07 AM

I agree. The line shifting is becoming intolberable.

And he is killing Huet's confidence. Look at the Leafs. They have back with Raycroft loss after loss and he's playing phenomenal. By going back and forth Carbo is destroying Huet mentally.

Pascal 02-04-2007 11:08 AM

I guess Carbo is the reason why the players aren't giving any efforts.

Somethings Habining 02-04-2007 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal (Post 7912241)
I guess Carbo is the reason why the players aren't giving any efforts.

You're right, but he is only part of the reason. If he takes care of his part then players that aren't giving efforts will work their way into the press box, or at least they should.

Capitano 02-04-2007 11:24 AM

When the chips are down it's the guys on the ice that have to perform. It's not getting done at this point. I love Guy as our coach, and if I had to find something negative to say I think he pays attention to defense before offense, but that happens with most coaches nowadays.

The guys on the ice have to perform. You can blame the coach all you want but at this point it's not on him.

Cap

AH 02-04-2007 11:35 AM

Carbo is in way over his head. He is being consistently outcoached by the oher guy. Yesterday's 3rd period was more of a Ted Nolan effect in beating the trap and cycling the puck down low. And the Habs got overmatched because they never adjust in-game like the other teams do.

This has been going on all season and people notice just now?

CareyClutch 02-04-2007 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH (Post 7912503)
Carbo is in way over his head. He is being consistently outcoached by the oher guy. Yesterday's 3rd period was more of a Ted Nolan effect in beating the trap and cycling the puck down low. And the Habs got overmatched because they never adjust in-game like the other teams do.

This has been going on all season and people notice just now?

agree

zx81 02-04-2007 11:49 AM

Looking at our pathetic transition game where all the forwards cheat at the other blue line we certainly can say that coaching is not perfect.

Of course he's not responsible for the lack of effort or mistakes but our system is a total joke.

Only the third line works.
Why ?
Because it's the so called defensive line and they don't cheat by waiting for the puck 50 feet from the D. That's why they also get the best offensive chances.

Is that hard to understand ?
Offense is built in the defensive zone, not at the other blue line...especially when you are waiting immobile for the puck.
God it's hockey 101.

WeThreeKings 02-04-2007 11:58 AM

Defence first has been losing games for us, let's go offence first ffs.

orignl6 02-04-2007 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason allison'fans (Post 7912514)
agree

why is it so many players are having confidence problems? this has been a flu like disorder and Everybody has had it or presently going through it.

Evil Ted 02-04-2007 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH (Post 7912503)
Carbo is in way over his head. He is being consistently outcoached by the oher guy. Yesterday's 3rd period was more of a Ted Nolan effect in beating the trap and cycling the puck down low. And the Habs got overmatched because they never adjust in-game like the other teams do.

This has been going on all season and people notice just now?


Well I think if you noticed in the 3rd period of yesterdays game Carbo hardly played the top line compared to the 3rd and 4th it seemed. I dont think it was so much he was outcoached late in the game as much as he felt he was punishing the 1st and 2nd units for poor play.

Take a look at the shift chart and I think its evident what was going on with the bench, I think also we have to give Carbo a bit more time to get his feet wet,

Montreal is a hockey hotbed, when a player or coach doesnt appear to do his job the knee jerk reaction is to get rid of them, when really patience is needed more then anything, making the playoffs should be our goal and right now we are on pace.

habscout 02-04-2007 12:25 PM

The shift ice time is an interesting theory, but I have to point out that only 3 Islanders managed less than an average of 45 seconds. One of them was Martinek, who was knocked out of the game in the 3rd period.

coolguy21415 02-04-2007 12:35 PM

I think our transition game has been much better recently. We're consistently getting the offensive zone, but at the same time we're forcing fewer turnovers on the forecheck and in the neutral zone.

I think we're sitting back too much. You can't gain without taking risks. What used to be our signiature (a hard forecheck) is now not working anymore.

Somethings Habining 02-04-2007 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ted (Post 7912892)
I think also we have to give Carbo a bit more time to get his feet wet.

Looks to me like the water is just under his chin right now.

Everyone has made solid points that all lead back to the issue of shift lenght, conditioning, lactic acid build up in the muscle and recovery.

When players are tired they cheat on the transition.

When players are tired it translates into lack of effort.

When players are tired they miss their defensive assignments.

When players are tired they don't react instinctively to offensive opportunities.

When players are tired they can't drive the net or pick up rebounds.

Less Is More, and the key to this team getting back on track is a simple as that.

If you've ever played a game of hockey (even shinny) and remember being on the ice so long that you didn't think you could move your legs to get over to the bench, then you know what I'm talking about.

Duster 02-04-2007 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somethings Habining (Post 7912094)
If Guy Carbonneau wants to turn things around with his team he needs to start with himself. You cannot keep piling all the blame on your players when you are equally as culpable and not doing everything you can to help your team win.

As I’ll undoubtedly get flamed, I’ll keep to one issue so everyone try to stay on point.

BENCH MANAGEMENT

In order to have your team play its best you have to ensure that the shifts are kept short and that your players finish a 60 minute game without there “tanks being drained”.

Successful coaches keep their players average ice time to 45 seconds or less.

Shifts that are longer contribute to the build up of lactic acid in the muscles that the body cannot re-absorb quick enough. This leads to a dramatic drop in performance and translate to weak passes, bad or slow decisions, losing one-on-one battles and the taking of penalties.

In the recent loss to the Islanders, http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...7/ES020784.HTM out of 18 players only one had a shift average of 45 seconds or less and that was Maxim Lapierre at 45 seconds exactly. Of all the rest 3 players had shifts that averaged over 1 minute, all 3 play on the top 2 lines, have been unproductive in the goal scoring department lately and are some of the worst +/- players on the team.

You can look up the stats for all of the losses this year and a disturbing pattern of excessive shift times accompany almost all of the losses.

This is the coaches’ responsibility to control, and as Guy Carbonneau said he and Kirk Muller cannot get on the ice and help the team but they need to start doing their job if they expect to put their players in a position to succeed.



Ahhhhhh…………………. I feel better now. :)

Interesting point. I would disagree somewhat. It comes down to level of fitness, natural ability and injury. Age too. It's takes longer to recover as you age, for example. Ask any marathon runner, or soccer player etc...These guys, barring injury, are in the prime of life and in first rate physical condition. I don't think Ryder refuses to pass the puck, Bouillon makes a blind pass or Kovalev floats because they're tired and they've been out too long.

steven91 02-04-2007 12:48 PM

I also don't think that Carbo's post game comments are helping. Saying that the other teams come ready to play and we don't doesn't really accompish anything. Every team goes through bad spells, when a team is losing the worst thing a coach can do is be negative. When a team starts losing the player get down on themselves enough without the coach telling them how bad they played. The best thing a caoch can do when his team starts losing is to stay posative and try to build on the good things that the team is doing.

Habs13 02-04-2007 12:50 PM

If you want to talk about line shifting, you'd best mention Claude Jullien. Carbonneau is fine, imo.

deandebean 02-04-2007 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH (Post 7912503)
Carbo is in way over his head. He is being consistently outcoached by the oher guy. Yesterday's 3rd period was more of a Ted Nolan effect in beating the trap and cycling the puck down low. And the Habs got overmatched because they never adjust in-game like the other teams do.

This has been going on all season and people notice just now?

AH, Carbo was Gainey's maaaaan. They had a real coach before and they let him go. Montreal fan wanted a cheerleader, someone with no experience at ANY level of hockey as a head coach. Not even a pee-wee C team.

You get what you asked for.

Somethings Habining 02-04-2007 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habscout (Post 7913098)
The shift ice time is an interesting theory, but I have to point out that only 3 Islanders managed less than an average of 45 seconds. One of them was Martinek, who was knocked out of the game in the 3rd period.

True, but my point is what shift lengths cost the Habs. This Islander team was very beatable, but fatigue, lack of effort and defensive end turnovers gave the Islanders great scoring opportunities that they buried.

As a coach I love playing teams that have long shifts, I know that by keeping my teams shifts short and rolling all of my lines that I will force the other team into making mistakes due to fatigue and that my players will be fresher an more alert to capitalize.

Ross MacLochness 02-04-2007 12:59 PM

5 consecutive rookie head coaches....I just love that.

Somethings Habining 02-04-2007 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs13 (Post 7913402)
If you want to talk about line shifting, you'd best mention Claude Jullien. Carbonneau is fine, imo.

Julien has been the winning coah in each of their contests so far this year and if you look at the stats you will see who had the better Bench Management.

Carbonneau is not fine, yet.

Somethings Habining 02-04-2007 01:05 PM

The game is starting now, lets see what todays shift lenghts are like, what the outcome is and if "My Theroy" stands up.

Go Habs Go.

deandebean 02-04-2007 01:11 PM

Look at today's lines and you can clearly sense Carbo has already lost the team.

Stefan_Latulippe 02-04-2007 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slip Slidin' Slim (Post 7913528)
5 consecutive rookie head coaches....I just love that.


:bow: :bow:

I got bashed for saying that Carbo was a rookie coach.... Looking forward to see a reply from ...22 here!!!!!!

Somethings Habining 02-04-2007 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deandebean (Post 7913717)
Look at today's lines and you can clearly sense Carbo has already lost the team.


Yes but if he is man enough to admit his mistakes to his player and show them the determination and dediction to correcting them, then the rest of the team will follow him.

Lets hope.


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