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-   -   Grabovsky, Kostitsyn, Milroy next season? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=340728)

Shabutie 02-04-2007 10:58 PM

Grabovsky, Kostitsyn, Milroy next season?
 
If they continue scoring at the pace that they have been for the last 1-2 months (or so) all 3 should easily reach the 70 point mark (the last to do so is Jason Ward I believe). They seemingly (and I don't get to watch very many bulldog games so maybe Qui can pitch in) form a very good very productive line with Milroy seemingly being the 2nd coming of Ryder (keep in mind that I've only seen him 10 games roughly). Does anyone believe that Gainey will make a move to trade away the more expendable players on the current roster for a few spots for these kids?

Example; Trade Ryder for 2nd round pick (ya I know, real original), Samsonov for whatever you can get. This gives us enough money for Souray + Markov (and maybe even Rivet). It also gives us the possibility of keeping either Bonk or Johnson.

So what does this give us?

Higgins - Koivu - Latendresse
Perezhogin/Kostitsyn - Grabovsky - Kovalev
Kostitsyn/Perezhogin - Plekanec - Milroy
Begin - Lapierre - Streit

It isn't very likely, but it does save us a ton in Cap space. This team to me seems like it'd have alot of success. It's built purely on speed (which kills in the new nhl, although Lats and Milroy aren't the fastest) and talent.

Maybe I'm a little too eager to see Kost/Grabo in the big leagues :dunno:

Tuggy 02-04-2007 10:59 PM

I find it hard to think that we will not seek outside help up front for next season. Not to say that I don't agree with what you posted, but I think Gainey will bring in at least one forward and defenseman.

Shabutie 02-04-2007 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuggy (Post 7920418)
I find it hard to think that we will not seek outside help up front for next season. Not to say that I don't agree with what you posted, but I think Gainey will bring in at least one forward and defenseman.

I'm not quite sure. I believe that Gainey has faith in Grabovsky, as much as he did in Plekanec this year. I can see him going for a winger, but I believe that he understands the importance of having both Souray and Markov re-sign here...and moving expandable players such as Sammy and Ryder would be the best way to do that.

Poochie_D 02-04-2007 11:05 PM

If Milroy has the same type of camp Ryder had during his rookie year he has a pretty good shot of making the team IMO. I think Kostitsyn and Grabovski are almost locks for opening night next year. The line-up will probably look something like this:

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Latendresse - Grabovski - Perezhogin
Begin - Lapierre - Milroy/Streit (or UFA)

Tuggy 02-04-2007 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7920432)
I'm not quite sure. I believe that Gainey has faith in Grabovsky, as much as he did in Plekanec this year. I can see him going for a winger, but I believe that he understands the importance of having both Souray and Markov re-sign here...and moving expandable players such as Sammy and Ryder would be the best way to do that.

I'm certainly leaning more and more toward re-signing Souray. I was the polar opposite when the season started.

I would be surprised if both Ryder and Samsonov are back next year. Ryder I think has some good trade value and could even be dealt this season. Samsonov on the other hand...more negative trade value. I also see Perezhogin gone. Ryder and Perezhogin could possibly fetch us a nice rental for a run.

Shabutie 02-04-2007 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie_D (Post 7920456)
If Milroy has the same type of camp Ryder had during his rookie year he has a pretty good shot of making the team IMO. I think Kostitsyn and Grabovski are almost locks for opening night next year. The line-up will probably look something like this:

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Latendresse - Grabovski - Perezhogin
Begin - Lapierre - Milroy (or UFA)

I'm fairly sure Grabo + Kost will be with each other. They compliment each other quite nicely and have great chemistry. Then again you never know cuz after all Plekanec and Higgins were seperated in the NHL.

MTL-rules 02-04-2007 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie_D (Post 7920456)
If Milroy has the same type of camp Ryder had during his rookie year he has a pretty good shot of making the team IMO. I think Kostitsyn and Grabovski are almost locks for opening night next year. The line-up will probably look something like this:

Higgins - Koivu - Ryder
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Latendresse - Grabovski - Perezhogin
Begin - Lapierre - Milroy/Streit (or UFA)

That's a sorry looking lineup...3 rookies, 2 second year players, 1 unproven player (Perezho)

This team needs a balance of young players and veterans.

Shabutie 02-04-2007 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuggy (Post 7920461)
I'm certainly leaning more and more toward re-signing Souray. I was the polar opposite when the season started.

I would be surprised if both Ryder and Samsonov are back next year. Ryder I think has some good trade value and could even be dealt this season. Samsonov on the other hand...more negative trade value. I also see Perezhogin gone. Ryder and Perezhogin could possibly fetch us a nice rental for a run.

Possibly, I'm not a fan of Perezhogin, but if he was back with Plekanec or put with Grabovsky, I could see him having some success. I'd definitely be happy if Gainey would fetch a rental for Ryder though, as it would clear us of about 2m next season (Ryder isn't going to re-sign for less than he has).

Shabutie 02-04-2007 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTL-rules (Post 7920492)
That's a sorry looking lineup...3 rookies, 2 second year players, 1 unproven player (Perezho)

This team needs a balance of young players and veterans.

Plekanec, Streit and Higgins were rookies last year. Two of those players proved to be among our best forwards... Ryder had 25 goals during his rookie campaign.

For Montreal the term "rookie" means very little, seeing as the grand majority of our players spend 2-3 years in the AHL. At 22-23 they should be ready to have a regular NHL spot.

Poochie_D 02-04-2007 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTL-rules (Post 7920492)
That's a sorry looking lineup...3 rookies, 2 second year players, 1 unproven player (Perezho)

This team needs a balance of young players and veterans.

That line-up has more talent then any we've had since 93. Sorry if its a young one. Plus this way we can most probably resign Markov and Souray. If Gainey can move Perezhogin for a draft pick or something I'd be all for resigning Johnson.

Souffle 02-04-2007 11:29 PM

I don't know that Milroy is guaranteed anything. I mean, the AHL is filled with guys who play a good game but never get near a regular NHL job. Ryder is an exception that proves the rule. Maybe Milroy is also a late bloomer, or maybe he's just a guy who's finally learned the game well enough to be a good AHLer.

The issue I have with adding Kostitsyn and Grabovski without subtracting from the top 6 (apart from Ryder) is that the team becomes so soft again. That's not to say that these guys are pansies who are afraid of physical play and high traffic areas, but it just doesn't help the team become more intimidating and aggressive, which is an area where they need improvement and consistency.

I also think the team needs more veteranship, but especially if it loses Ryder, Bonk and Johnson (never mind the D). K and G probably have a place next year in some capacity, but in no way do they address some of the other core needs.

Anyway, I'll make the bold prediction that Gainey goes after Scott Hartnell as his big UFA acquisition next off-season, no matter what his plans are for K and G.

Form and Substance 02-04-2007 11:31 PM

I'd keep Bonk, Streit and Plekanec,they've been consistent all year. Though patience seems to be running out, I think we should give Perezhogin a fair chance to prove himself if he has a good camp and shows drive again. This kid needs confidence in order to be effective, whereas a guy like Higgins just uses his natural hustle and hockey sense if mired in a slump. Kovalev will stay, and I guess we can't move Samsonov. I think Ryder will be gone though to make place for Kostitsyn.

Shabutie 02-04-2007 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davedave (Post 7920618)
I don't know that Milroy is guaranteed anything. I mean, the AHL is filled with guys who play a good game but never get near a regular NHL job. Ryder is an exception that proves the rule. Maybe Milroy is also a late bloomer, or maybe he's just a guy who's finally learned the game well enough to be a good AHLer.

The issue I have with adding Kostitsyn and Grabovski without subtracting from the top 6 (apart from Ryder) is that the team becomes so soft again. That's not to say that these guys are pansies who are afraid of physical play and high traffic areas, but it just doesn't help the team become more intimidating and aggressive, which is an area where they need improvement and consistency.

I also think the team needs more veteranship, but especially if it loses Ryder, Bonk and Johnson (never mind the D). K and G probably have a place next year in some capacity, but in no way do they address some of the other core needs.

Anyway, I'll make the bold prediction that Gainey goes after Scott Hartnell as his big UFA acquisition next off-season, no matter what his plans are for K and G.

I wouldn't call Ryder a veteran.

Also, I don't think that by losing Sammy and Ryder that we become more soft...Quite the contrary, Grabovsky fights for pucks. He's been the hardest working player in alot of Hamilton's games and if he can add 10ish pds in the off-season (which I guarantee he will with Scott Livingstone) he will be our best option at 2nd line center, better than any FA signing we can afford. As for Kostitsyn, he's definitely less soft than Samsonov.

Our top 6 wouldn't be much less "soft" than Buffalos or Ottawa's...and our bottom 6 would be very comparable; with Begin, Lapierre and Ferland (I would imagine Carbo would want him on next years team).

How about we give these a look;

Higgins - Koivu - Latendresse
Kostitsyn - Grabovsky - Kovalev
Perez - Plekanec - Streit
Begin - Lapierre - Ferland

The 4th line would do an amazing amount of checking, the 3rd line would be one of the greatest forchecking lines we've had in ages... The top 2 lines would provide very good scoring.

Tusk 02-04-2007 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7920667)
The 4th line would do an amazing amount of checking, the 3rd line would be one of the greatest forchecking lines we've had in ages... The top 2 lines would provide very good scoring.

I like where your going but it still seems to be missing some muscle, as much as I like Perez, I'd move him for someone with some sandpaper. Hell, at this point, I'd offer Ryder for Tucker to TO straight up, this team needs someone like that, the last few games have shown how chippy it's gonna be down the stretch. Sorry to get off topic. But the Habs need some more agro gritty guys. Lapierre is a nice start.

Shabutie 02-05-2007 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preston (Post 7920771)
I like where your going but it still seems to be missing some muscle, as much as I like Perez, I'd move him for someone with some sandpaper. Hell, at this point, I'd offer Ryder for Tucker to TO straight up, this team needs someone like that, the last few games have shown how chippy it's gonna be down the stretch. Sorry to get off topic. But the Habs need some more agro gritty guys. Lapierre is a nice start.

It'd take ALOT more than that. Tucker is as good a goal scorer as Ryder (if not better) and is probably the best pest in the league. Toronto wouldn't trade him in the same division anyway, especially not to Montreal.

I'd like to add Avery to the team, just cuz he gets under so many player's skin. He's a puke, but he's good at what he does.

Tusk 02-05-2007 12:07 AM

I'm with you on Avery as well, Ottawa plays like that and we gotta go through them to get through this conference. You'd think it would take more than Ryder at this point? What could other teams offer similarly for Tucker, than an RFA 25-30 goal scorer. I like Ryder too, but he was my example of what I'd spend to get some impact grit, we got 4th line grit, impact grit is what we need now.

Shabutie 02-05-2007 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preston (Post 7920821)
I'm with you on Avery as well, Ottawa plays like that and we gotta go through them to get through this conference. You'd think it would take more than Ryder at this point? What could other teams offer similarly for Tucker, than an RFA 25-30 goal scorer. I like Ryder too, but he was my example of what I'd spend to get some impact grit, we got 4th line grit, impact grit is what we need now.

Montreal and Toronto wouldn't trade such players to each other, it's too likely to come back and bite them in the ass 8 times/year.

Tusk 02-05-2007 12:18 AM

I guess so, anyway, it was just an example, impact grit is needed.

Slick Nick 02-05-2007 12:27 AM

I don't understand all the love for Milroy... I've seen him live a few times and IMO he isin't anywhere near the NHL.

coolguy21415 02-05-2007 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick Nick (Post 7920949)
I don't understand all the love for Milroy... I've seen him live a few times and IMO he isin't anywhere near the NHL.

I was under the impression he was more benefiting from playing with better players (i.e. Kostitsyn, Grabovsky) than actually being good.

TroyM 02-05-2007 08:02 AM

I think we'd be in a heap of trouble defensively if we lost both Bonk and Johnson next year. Those two are rocks on the defensive end while also providing good offense, I think they are key players on the team. Both are a huge reason our PK has been so effective this year, and they are some of the only plus players on the team. I mean Ryder is -17, Johnson is +15, I know the stat is flawed but it shows how much better he is at keeping the puck out of our end.

I'm all for rookies stepping up, Kost and Grabs MAYBE, but all three is definitely pushing it. Especially at the cost of Bonk and Johnson.

Netro 02-05-2007 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTL-rules (Post 7920492)
That's a sorry looking lineup...3 rookies, 2 second year players, 1 unproven player (Perezho)

This team needs a balance of young players and veterans.

I agree with you. I just don't see all 3 young players having a regular role next season. And if they do, I don't think it bodes well for the Habs.

417 02-05-2007 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davedave (Post 7920618)
I don't know that Milroy is guaranteed anything. I mean, the AHL is filled with guys who play a good game but never get near a regular NHL job. Ryder is an exception that proves the rule. Maybe Milroy is also a late bloomer, or maybe he's just a guy who's finally learned the game well enough to be a good AHLer.

The issue I have with adding Kostitsyn and Grabovski without subtracting from the top 6 (apart from Ryder) is that the team becomes so soft again. That's not to say that these guys are pansies who are afraid of physical play and high traffic areas, but it just doesn't help the team become more intimidating and aggressive, which is an area where they need improvement and consistency.

I also think the team needs more veteranship, but especially if it loses Ryder, Bonk and Johnson (never mind the D). K and G probably have a place next year in some capacity, but in no way do they address some of the other core needs.

Anyway, I'll make the bold prediction that Gainey goes after Scott Hartnell as his big UFA acquisition next off-season, no matter what his plans are for K and G.

That's exactly the type of player the Habs need, but i'm not sure he's a UFA is he? And if he is, Nashville would be crazy to let him walk...

Definately the type of player Gainey should target though

I also see Ryder being moved at some point this year, he's a RFA if i'm not mistaken and his play the last two years hasn't indicated that he should keep getting a raise, at least not from the Habs standpoint, I was one of those against moving Ryder but his game has changed so much from his rookie year, is it the rest of the league's that adjusted to him or is it him trying to do to much??:dunno: either way, I don't like it

417 02-05-2007 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyM (Post 7922079)
I think we'd be in a heap of trouble defensively if we lost both Bonk and Johnson next year. Those two are rocks on the defensive end while also providing good offense, I think they are key players on the team. Both are a huge reason our PK has been so effective this year, and they are some of the only plus players on the team. I mean Ryder is -17, Johnson is +15, I know the stat is flawed but it shows how much better he is at keeping the puck out of our end.

I'm all for rookies stepping up, Kost and Grabs MAYBE, but all three is definitely pushing it. Especially at the cost of Bonk and Johnson.

I wouldn't get caught up in the mirage that is Radek Bonk this year...I like what I see with him, but I wouldn't resign him for another 2 or 3 years, diminishing skills...Mike Johnson i'd like to see back but just not at any cost.

SOLR 02-05-2007 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 417 (Post 7922196)
I was one of those against moving Ryder but his game has changed so much from his rookie year, is it the rest of the league's that adjusted to him or is it him trying to do to much??:dunno: either way, I don't like it

Its easy to stop him, just get in his face and the entire play is very likely to abort.


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