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-   -   Gainey\Carbo the perfect combination (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=341457)

Shabutie 02-06-2007 04:40 PM

Gainey\Carbo the perfect combination
 
Waiving Samsonov made me realize what direction this team is taking. Carbonneau and Gainey will not accept having players without character. Ribeiro, Dagenais, Theo, Samsonov, Zednik, Bulis... All guys that lack character.

Our team is heading in the right direction, with only a few players that lack this mentality; Kovalev, Niinimaa and Perezhogin come to mind.

If Carbonneau asks a certain player to play a certain role, he expects the player to man up and fill the role (Which is why Higgins, Johnson, Bonk, Plekanec, Streit will always be part of Carbs' favorites). If a player isn't happy to play a certain roll, he can pack his bags for all I care...This is a team, and every player should be content in playing a part in the team's success...no matter how small the part, no matter how different the role.

Anywho all this to say, I'm very happy with the direction the team is taking.

Jyroe Habs Fan 02-06-2007 04:43 PM

I must admit Shabutie, I agree with your assement.
:eek:

hototogisu 02-06-2007 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7940909)
Waiving Samsonov made me realize what direction this team is taking. Carbonneau and Gainey will not accept having players without character. Ribeiro, Dagenais, Theo, Samsonov, Zednik, Bulis... All guys that lack character.

Our team is heading in the right direction, with only a few players that lack this mentality; Kovalev, Niinimaa and Perezhogin come to mind.

If Carbonneau asks a certain player to play a certain role, he expects the player to man up and fill the role (Which is why Higgins, Johnson, Bonk, Plekanec, Streit will always be part of Carbs' favorites). If a player isn't happy to play a certain roll, he can pack his bags for all I care...This is a team, and every player should be content in playing a part in the team's success...no matter how small the part, no matter how different the role.

Anywho all this to say, I'm very happy with the direction the team is taking.

I think you should add Latendresse to your list - some people have "hinted" that it's because he's Quebecois (not trying to start anything but I know that's been a sentiment around here sometimes) but it's because he fits into the critera you described, filling any role and working as hard as he can to do it. He became an effective fourth-liner when he started throwing the body and he was just as good on the first replacing Higgins.

Ross MacLochness 02-06-2007 04:44 PM

It was Gainey who got Samsonov, Niinima and Kovalev no?

Let's see some results from this team in areas other than Contract-year Souray, Goaltending, PP and the PK (Muller and Jarvis' domain)

Way to many players have underacheived this year for my liking.

MathMan 02-06-2007 04:45 PM

Besides, Kovalev doesn't lack character, he IS a character. ;)

MathMan 02-06-2007 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slip Slidin' Slim (Post 7940960)
Way to many players have underacheived this year for my liking.

The crazy thing about this whole thing, and which I'm not sure I understand, is that while "way too many" players are seen as having underachieved, the team as a whole is being seen as having overachieved. They're in 4th position still when many were expecting them to miss the playoffs entirely.

Someone somewhere on this team must be doing something right...

Alexei Yashvalev 02-06-2007 04:50 PM

Shabutie continues his personal crusade against Perezhogin, Samsonov and Kovalev..

hototogisu 02-06-2007 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexei Yashvalev (Post 7941019)
Shabutie continues his personal crusade against Perezhogin, Samsonov and Kovalev..

I've disagreed with things Shabutie has said several times in my stay on this forum and I don't see how that makes this topic any less valid. "Personal crusade" or not, it sounds like the truth from here.

antidot 02-06-2007 04:57 PM

I hate that Perezhogin is benched for the second game !!!!

He's a skilled player that was playing great most of the season , and now they are killing his confidence . Carbo is a coach that has a tough time to mixe his players , to build his lines .

Even the waive of Samsonov makes no sens , considering that he never even played one little period with Saku . That's crazy .

And now , we have a first line with Streit and Johnson !!!!

Ross MacLochness 02-06-2007 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 7940992)
The crazy thing about this whole thing, and which I'm not sure I understand, is that while "way too many" players are seen as having underachieved, the team as a whole is being seen as having overachieved. They're in 4th position still when many were expecting them to miss the playoffs entirely.

Someone somewhere on this team must be doing something right...

I think we overacheived a tad at the beginning, with ALOT of help from the 3 things I listed (Contract year Souray, Huet, Special Teams) There were alot of other keys like Koivu, PBJ line, Markov etc. But the first 3 were the most important.

Then when we started to go into the tank, those 3 things were all that kept us afloat (with help from dudes like Pleks, Streit etc)

But I don't think Carbonneau can't take any credit for the 3 most important reasons we are where we are today. Unless he works with the PP and PK secretly, which I highly doubt happens.

Shabutie 02-06-2007 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexei Yashvalev (Post 7941019)
Shabutie continues his personal crusade against Perezhogin, Samsonov and Kovalev..

Hey, I'm not saying they aren't good players (In fact I was a Ribeiro fanboy and I added him to the list), they just lack character. I think anyone can agree with that.

It's also easy to see that the players with the most character are getting good treatment from Carbo and the coaching staff. They give more icetime to players who shut up and play their role on the team, whatever it might be.

When Streit was asked to play FW, he did it...When he was given 5 minutes, he fulfilled the role, and did it quite well. When he was asked to play Center, he eagerly took on the challenge. He's never turned down any roll and has never steamed about being demoted, being benched or anything....When he's been benched, he's made sure that the next game he got to play, he played the best he could... You cannot say the same about Sammy or Perezhogin.

Adam91 02-06-2007 05:13 PM

Can someone explain this team. What sense does it make to put a high paid, under acheiving player on waivers?? I mean at this point its obvious he doesn't fit into the Habs plans. But putting on him on waivers seems to reduce his trade value by a ton. To me he know has no trade value at all at this point

Mike8 02-06-2007 05:13 PM

All that Niinimaa really brings to the table (on a positive side) is character and a reputation for being a good guy in the lockerroom. So I don't get why he's mentioned.

Gainey's also the one who, as mentioned, brought in Samsonov. And holds Kovalev in high regard.

So while I like Gainey a whole lot as GM, and I think he's done wonders in stabilizing the franchise, I wonder if he (and/or Carbonneau) doesn't have issues identifying talent.

Gainey's track record in identifying winners is very good, as proven in Minnesota/Dallas. But when it came time to pick up the talented complementary players, Gainey picked up the likes of Turgeon, Audette, Kamensky, Rucinsky, etc.

Now the Samsonov experiment didn't work out. Okay, I'm not going to pass too much judgment on Gainey because I hold a whole lot of respect for the man, but the way all this was handled with Samsonov wasn't great. And I don't think Gainey's track record with finesse players, either in terms of managing them or in terms of evaluating which ones would fit on his club, has been stellar.

We'll see how he does in the next year or so. In the meantime, I'll hope for Marty Lapointe to be acquired.

Mike8 02-06-2007 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam91 (Post 7941305)
Can someone explain this team. What sense does it make to put a high paid, under acheiving player on waivers?? I mean at this point its obvious he doesn't fit into the Habs plans. But putting on him on waivers seems to reduce his trade value by a ton. To me he know has no trade value at all at this point

He had no trade value prior to the waiver bit. That is the point here.

Mackee 02-06-2007 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam91 (Post 7941305)
Can someone explain this team. What sense does it make to put a high paid, under acheiving player on waivers?? I mean at this point its obvious he doesn't fit into the Habs plans. But putting on him on waivers seems to reduce his trade value by a ton. To me he know has no trade value at all at this point

You don't think Gainey tried to deal him before placing him on waivers?

Captain Saku 02-06-2007 05:17 PM

to tell the truth i've been very disapointed by Carbonneau lately... I don't like his attitude toward some players including samsonov! Samsonov was part of the problem yes but he was not the only problem, neither Rivet but Carbonneau kept focusing on bashing those players and forgot other ones like Ryder !

I was very disapointed to see Samsonov on waivers today... I was always sure that he'll bring his game soon before the end of the season !

Shabutie 02-06-2007 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooBlancRouge (Post 7941349)
You don't think Gainey tried to deal him before placing him on waivers?

This might be part of a trade...

hototogisu 02-06-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SakuCKoivu (Post 7941378)
I was very disapointed to see Samsonov on waivers today... I was always sure that he'll bring his game soon before the end of the season !

I guess the fact that his agent asked for him to be traded had no impact on your feelings towards him?

David_99 02-06-2007 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hototogisu (Post 7941433)
I guess the fact that his agent asked for him to be traded had no impact on your feelings towards him?

I agree.

PS
LOVE tha avatar lol

Habs 02-06-2007 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7940909)
Waiving Samsonov made me realize what direction this team is taking. Carbonneau and Gainey will not accept having players without character. Ribeiro, Dagenais, Theo, Samsonov, Zednik, Bulis... All guys that lack character.

Maybe we should find someone with a better knowledge of character. If Bob has to dump every player he signs, trades for, its not saying alot for his scouting, or ideas. {somewhat of an exagerration, I know}

If Bob has a plan, its harder to crack than The DaVinci Code. Samsonov - bust, Ninnima - bust. Johnson has worked out excellent, but you know what you get with a player like Mike Johnson.

Gainey thinks that players will magically resurrect their career by putting on the fabled CH. I hope he's learned his lesson, and I hope he places some of the blame on Carbonneau.

Chehabi 02-06-2007 05:50 PM

Yeah Gainey and Carbonneau is awesome. It took so long to finally get a good coach and GM. To think, 10 years ago we had Houle and Tremblay.

Kruky 02-06-2007 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam91 (Post 7941305)
But putting on him on waivers seems to reduce his trade value by a ton. To me he know has no trade value at all at this point


How can it reduce his trade value by a ton when he doesn't have any trade value to begin with?

Duster 02-06-2007 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7940909)
Waiving Samsonov made me realize what direction this team is taking. Carbonneau and Gainey will not accept having players without character. Ribeiro, Dagenais, Theo, Samsonov, Zednik, Bulis... All guys that lack character.

Our team is heading in the right direction, with only a few players that lack this mentality; Kovalev, Niinimaa and Perezhogin come to mind.

I would respectfully disagree. Niinimaa has proven himself to be consumate team player and he's hardly a softie. Ever hear him complain? He's no Brisebois that's for sure. Perezhogin has plenty of character and grit as anyone who has seen him play in the AHL will agree. His problem is undisciplined play, not heart.

Kovalev is exactly the player he has always been. As you stated, Gainey likes players with character, yet he's still here. You'd think Gainey maybe got a first hand look when he coached him last year. If Kovalev is not a Gainey man, why is he still here?

Shabutie 02-06-2007 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duster (Post 7941950)
I would respectfully disagree. Niinimaa has proven himself to be consumate team player and he's hardly a softie. Ever hear him complain? He's no Brisebois that's for sure. Perezhogin has plenty of character and grit as anyone who has seen him play in the AHL will agree. His problem is undisciplined play, not heart.

Kovalev is exactly the player he has always been. As you stated, Gainey likes players with character, yet he's still here. You'd think Gainey maybe got a first hand look when he coached him last year. If Kovalev is not a Gainey man, why is he still here?

Even if Kovalev has a lack of character, he's still a PPG man for us during the playoffs, making him an importance piece of the puzzle. Even if Gainey decided that he wanted to get rid of Kovalev, at 4.5m$ there wouldn't be any takers.

Mackee 02-06-2007 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 7941417)
This might be part of a trade...

Possibly. Or a way to free up cap room. If no one claims him, I'm pretty sure we can all agree he'll toil in Hamilton for the rest of the year. He'd definitely get picked up on re-entry waivers at half his salary.


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