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Kimota 02-11-2007 03:44 AM

Make Your Move
 
Wich player(s) the Habs should try to get at this point in the season other than Forsberg?

If it were me, I would forget a coveted guy like him and make a play for Oilers centerman, Shawn Horcoff. I know he played good series last year, but I feel like for the right offer, the Oilers would listen since he's not a superstar. I think he's the sort of physical center that can score goals that would be beneficial for us. Just with a move like this, we would have somebody that would be an upgrade to Saku and Plek and I think it would change our team's dynamic completly.

Traitor8 02-11-2007 03:50 AM

I would take long looks at Stumpel, Roberts, Jokinen

Kimota 02-11-2007 03:59 AM

Jokinen

It won't happen. Forget it. Especially with 30 games to play. If the Habs would get a player of that magnitude, it would be around the summer after LONG negotiations. And we would have to change our current team completly. Wich would be too risky to do right now.

le_sean 02-11-2007 04:27 AM

I know there isn't much room for wingers, but at this point I would take anyone. I think a good player to look at would be Bill Guerin. Pure goal scorer, can skate and has a mean streak to him. Has 22 goals (more than any Hab) on a bad St. Louis team and only makes $2 million (UFA next season).

Zach and Slater 02-11-2007 06:39 AM

WOW!!! I come over to this board for the first time to post a thread as to why Gainey should be doing everything he can to get Horcoff off of us and it's already said!!! AMAZING! Anyways, your bang on, he's the guy YOUR team needs. I'm not trying to sell him to you I'm just going to give you facts. GREAT defensivly, gritty, blocks shots, gets timely goals, GREAT on faceoff's, had PHENOMINAL chemistry with Samsonov late last year(4 on 4 Mac T would put them out together, nobody could touch them, they would dominate....no lie), and plays great with talent AKA Sammy and Kovalev. I don't know of a better fit.

Now after all this all you Habs fans are saying "yeah, then why the hell do you want to deal him?" Because I think we should sell and get ready for next season, we got Jarret Stoll who is ready for 1st line duty, we got Schremp, Pouliot and Broadziak who should all be in the NHL next year (despite what people say about Schremp's play this season). I don't mind Horcoff, but he only produces for us with Smyth and Hemsky. He would be a perfect fit on your team because he would be playing with so many talented guys. His 3.6 mil tag is steep compared to Stoll's 2.2 and the 900K(give or take obviously) that a rookie costs. It just makes the most sense, but of course the guy is averaging over a point a game over his last 16 games, is on pace for about 60 points this season, had 73 points last season, and was a clutch playoff preformer last year.....he would cost a good price. I was thinking a 1st round pick +....the + with you guys....maybe Perezhogin but I say that without knowing much about the kid and how much you value him, so I apologize in advance if I've underestimated his value. But I think given he's ok contract that lasts another 2 seasons there for no NEED to move him at the deadline, he'll cost a lot.

Again, I'm not trying to sell you guys on him, I just think he's the perfect fit for your team. A gritty 2nd line centre that has great chemistry with your most underachieving player....sounds like a HECK of a fit!

BLONG7 02-11-2007 07:30 AM

Bottom line for the Habs is...they need some sort of change...shake the tree so to speak...as for Horcoff, Lowe would want Komisarek, he absolutely loves Komi, and I am not sure BG would do this, but as stated, the Habs need to shake the tree...

LamborGREENie 02-11-2007 09:11 AM

Stumpel, Horcoff, Lupul...

WeThreeKings 02-11-2007 09:41 AM

Halak,Ryder and a 2nd round pick for Horcoff.

Habitants 02-11-2007 10:30 AM

i dont want horcroff, i want Stoll!:)

but i dont think habs will deal with edmonton. players i see gainey targeting or that he should be looking at

Forsberg+Ellison
Doan+Boynton
Stumpel+Gelinas+Van Ryn+Jokinen (big list from Fla..)
Guerin+Backman
Modin
Martin Lapointe

Zach and Slater 02-11-2007 10:58 AM

I don't know if it's just the last 3 or 4 guys that have posted, but I'm very impressed with you guys and your knowledge of player value in trades. The guy above here said he wants Stoll.....I get that! Stoll's a beauty, they're very simular, Stolly though is more physical and has that big shot....and I think in the long run will be better. I know I don't have to tell you guys this but I love doing this comparison. Stoll is a young Trevor Linden, and Horcoff is tough to compare but one you Habs fans might like....he's a quicker but less physical version of Kirk Muller. As for Komisarek, I wouldn't doubt that if Komisarek was offered but Gainey wanted something else that Lowe could either toss in a d-man(Hejda) or if Gainey thought it would help to take on some salary(Niinimaa), that's intriguing though. I've always wondered why Komisarek hasn't developed that well with you guys? I know of his problems last year, but I guess I just thought he would be more then what he currently is. When he was drafted I remember hearing a lot Rob Blake comparisons. Also, Halak, Ryder and a 2nd for Horcoff is along the lines of what I was thinking....I hear Halak is going to be a beauty. Of course this would also make trade bait out of one of up and comming goaltenders, and I think Ryder or Lupul would then get flipped for a d-man.

otto bond 02-11-2007 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Gold (Post 8010811)
I don't know if it's just the last 3 or 4 guys that have posted, but I'm very impressed with you guys and your knowledge of player value in trades. The guy above here said he wants Stoll.....I get that! Stoll's a beauty, they're very simular, Stolly though is more physical and has that big shot....and I think in the long run will be better. I know I don't have to tell you guys this but I love doing this comparison. Stoll is a young Trevor Linden, and Horcoff is tough to compare but one you Habs fans might like....he's a quicker but less physical version of Kirk Muller. As for Komisarek, I wouldn't doubt that if Komisarek was offered but Gainey wanted something else that Lowe could either toss in a d-man(Hejda) or if Gainey thought it would help to take on some salary(Niinimaa), that's intriguing though. I've always wondered why Komisarek hasn't developed that well with you guys? I know of his problems last year, but I guess I just thought he would be more then what he currently is. When he was drafted I remember hearing a lot Rob Blake comparisons. Also, Halak, Ryder and a 2nd for Horcoff is along the lines of what I was thinking....I hear Halak is going to be a beauty. Of course this would also make trade bait out of one of up and comming goaltenders, and I think Ryder or Lupul would then get flipped for a d-man.

Any Oiler fan would love that trade. You are right, the price of this is Halak.
Having said that, is there anyway we can add Shremp to this.

ChuckyToGally 02-11-2007 11:30 AM

To MTL: Shawn Horcoff, Joffrey Lupul and conditionnal pick

To EDM: Sheldon Souray, Alexander Perezhogin and Jaroslav Halak

.................................................. .........................................

To MTL: Shane Doan and Nick Boynton

To PHO: Michael Ryder, Ryan O'Byrne and 1st round pick

.................................................. ........................................

Rivet and Kovalev should also be traded.


Lines:

Higgins-Koivu-Doan
Samsonov-Horcoff-Lupul
Plekanec-Bonk-Johnson
Bégin-Lapierre-Latendresse

Markov-Komisarek
Streit-Boynton
Bouillon-Dandenault

Let's say we suceed to dump Samsonov during the off-season and we trade Dandenault, we would have enough money to resign both Markov and Doan along with another top D UFA.

s7ark 02-11-2007 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77otto (Post 8010880)
Any Oiler fan would love that trade. You are right, the price of this is Halak.
Having said that, is there anyway we can add Shremp to this.

Sorry, the "price" for our number 1 C is your 3rd ranked G prospect, currently ranked 10th on your prospect list?

As an Oiler fan, I really, really don't love that trade. And why would we be trading for a goalie prospect when Lowe is still very high on JDD and DD? And why would we use our number 1 C to get him? If Lowe really wants Halak, he can get him for a pick.

WeThreeKings 02-11-2007 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark (Post 8011172)
Sorry, the "price" for our number 1 C is your 3rd ranked G prospect, currently ranked 10th on your prospect list?

As an Oiler fan, I really, really don't love that trade. And why would we be trading for a goalie prospect when Lowe is still very high on JDD and DD? And why would we use our number 1 C to get him? If Lowe really wants Halak, he can get him for a pick.

Halak is the best goalie in the AHL. You don't even have a succesful number one goalie right now. Neither do we, but we still have Price.

Watsatheo 02-11-2007 11:49 AM

Camelleri, and L.Visnovsky for Souray, Ryder, 2nd and 3rd picks
(I know, I wish)

1st and Perzhogin for Horton

PS- all picks are in 08, and I do know all these trades would never happen in the real world...)

#57 02-11-2007 11:58 AM

I want Forsberg... Ryder, 1st '07, 1st '08, Danis?? I wanna put Souray on offense 5-on-5 because he is worthless on D. He plays good on the PK and PP thought so I wanna keep him around.

Maybe even Kapanen could help us 'cause he can play def in case of an injury.. lots of experience, chemistry with Saku and Janne, great PK, fast.. Maybe a 2nd round pick would be enough??

I think Sammy and Perez would breakout with Forsberg.. and I think Perez plays better on RW because he could get his shot off quicker with a better angle..

Our playoff roster:
Higgins - Koivu - Kovalev
Samsonov - Forsberg - Perezhogin
Begin - Bonk - Johnson
Kapanen - Lapierre - Souray
*Latendresse, Downey, Murray, Kostitsyn, Grabovski

Markov - Dandenault
Streit - Komisarek
Bouillon - Rivet
*Niinimaa, Cote

Huet, Aebischer, Halak

Our defense is weak but if we can developp some team chemistry our offense would win us games easily lol..

PP:
Samsonov-Forsberg-Kovalev-Markov-Souray
Higgins-Koivu-Perezhogin-Rivet-Streit

s7ark 02-11-2007 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeThreeKings (Post 8011223)
Halak is the best goalie in the AHL. You don't even have a succesful number one goalie right now. Neither do we, but we still have Price.

Roli is a fine number1. Given our D all year, he has held in there pretty well. And by the time he is done in 2-3 years, JDD and DD will have that much more experience. And given that both have played very well this year, trading for a G prospect isn't that high on our priority list. Esp. not at the cost of our number 1 C.

bigmcbob 02-11-2007 01:08 PM

Ryder & Rivet for Horcoff & Jean-Francois Jacques

Habs10Habs 02-11-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmcbob (Post 8012169)
Ryder & Rivet for Horcoff & Jean-Francois Jacques


I like Horcoff and think he would be a great fit for Mtl, but I can't see EDM doing this deal.

Whitesnake 02-11-2007 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 (Post 8011108)
To MTL: Shawn Horcoff, Joffrey Lupul and conditionnal pick

To EDM: Sheldon Souray, Alexander Perezhogin and Jaroslav Halak

.................................................. .........................................

To MTL: Shane Doan and Nick Boynton

To PHO: Michael Ryder, Ryan O'Byrne and 1st round pick

.................................................. ........................................

I absolutely would love Edmonton as trading partner. Would love to get my hands on Horcoff, Torres, Bergeron, Lupul and to a lesser extent Pouliot, Jacques or even Stortini. But NOT at the expense of Halak and O'Byrne. I wonder what their take on Ryder, Rivet and Perezhogin and start with this. But while we should lose Aebi on UFA, you definately have a #2 battle with Halak-Danis coming up since Price shouldn't be ready yet. As far O'Byrne is concerned, I don't think you waited for him for a longer period of time, see him developing nicely him for then to lose him. And Our D'S are our weakest position right now. Who knows, we might lose 4 guys out of UFA soon, how could you trade a good prospect like he is.

Russeltown 02-11-2007 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 (Post 8011108)
To MTL: Shawn Horcoff, Joffrey Lupul and conditionnal pick

To EDM: Sheldon Souray, Alexander Perezhogin and Jaroslav Halak

.................................................. .........................................

To MTL: Shane Doan and Nick Boynton

To PHO: Michael Ryder, Ryan O'Byrne and 1st round pick

I like it from a MTL point of view. These trades could happen. You give good assets for goods assets.

Quiet Robert 02-11-2007 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Gold (Post 8009788)
WOW!!! I come over to this board for the first time to post a thread as to why Gainey should be doing everything he can to get Horcoff off of us and it's already said!!! AMAZING! Anyways, your bang on, he's the guy YOUR team needs. I'm not trying to sell him to you I'm just going to give you facts. GREAT defensivly, gritty, blocks shots, gets timely goals, GREAT on faceoff's, had PHENOMINAL chemistry with Samsonov late last year(4 on 4 Mac T would put them out together, nobody could touch them, they would dominate....no lie), and plays great with talent AKA Sammy and Kovalev. I don't know of a better fit.

Now after all this all you Habs fans are saying "yeah, then why the hell do you want to deal him?" Because I think we should sell and get ready for next season, we got Jarret Stoll who is ready for 1st line duty, we got Schremp, Pouliot and Broadziak who should all be in the NHL next year (despite what people say about Schremp's play this season). I don't mind Horcoff, but he only produces for us with Smyth and Hemsky. He would be a perfect fit on your team because he would be playing with so many talented guys. His 3.6 mil tag is steep compared to Stoll's 2.2 and the 900K(give or take obviously) that a rookie costs. It just makes the most sense, but of course the guy is averaging over a point a game over his last 16 games, is on pace for about 60 points this season, had 73 points last season, and was a clutch playoff preformer last year.....he would cost a good price. I was thinking a 1st round pick +....the + with you guys....maybe Perezhogin but I say that without knowing much about the kid and how much you value him, so I apologize in advance if I've underestimated his value. But I think given he's ok contract that lasts another 2 seasons there for no NEED to move him at the deadline, he'll cost a lot.

Again, I'm not trying to sell you guys on him, I just think he's the perfect fit for your team. A gritty 2nd line centre that has great chemistry with your most underachieving player....sounds like a HECK of a fit!

Good post, and funny you were coming to post about the Habs acquiring Horcoff. Personally I would love a guy like Horcoff on the Habs. He's another example of the type of guy I'd like to see on this team.

As for Perezhogin, he's kind of in a tough spot this year with the Habs. I think the coaching staff has really pushed for him to improve his defensive game and/or be more consistency, but his offense hasn't been that great this year. Early on he was placed on the 3rd line with Bonk and Johnson and he played a very sound game, but given the role he played his offense really suffered. He gets virtually zero PP minutes, which again hurts his numbers.

I still like him a lot, but his stock has dropped quite a bit in the eyes of Hab fans. But to tell you the truth I don't know what his real value is. I still think he has the potential to be a solid top 6 player, he's got great speed, slick hands, and is pretty willing to play down low. But he's also inconsistent, and takes the most frustrating penalties imaginable. (Offensive zone hooking type of stuff) So he's still learning. Like I said, I think the role he's been given doesn't really fit the type of game he has, but I don't think he's quite ready to be a top 6 guy yet. But the offensive potential is there, he has the tools, he's just gotta play with confidence and the results will come.

Edit: Just to add on Perezhogin's status, Montreal has Kostitsyn and Grabovski knocking on the door to play in the NHL, so that probably makes Perez a little more expendable. He's still young, making under 1 mil, and has a good toolbox, so I think he'd be a decent trading chip. Like I said though, the numbers aren't that appealing and he's fallen from grace in many Habs fans' eyes, but I don't think the potential just disappeared. If he's given more offensive freedom, maybe he could thrive. He needs to improve his consistency and stop taking bad penalties though.

I think the salaries would need tinkering though if the Habs were to take on Horc's 3.6 mil. Perez in only making 950K I think, and the Habs are really close to the limit, so maybe Edmonton would take on a potential UFA to even up the salaries. I like the Oilers as trading partners though. They have a lot of the types of players that could help the Habs and being in a different conference, I think it makes the trading more attractive.

francky89 02-11-2007 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmcbob (Post 8012169)
Ryder & Rivet for Horcoff & Jean-Francois Jacques

I like this trade for Mtl...

Zach and Slater 02-11-2007 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quiet Robert (Post 8012684)
They have a lot of the types of players that could help the Habs and being in a different conference, I think it makes the trading more attractive.

Defintley they are on paper great trading partners. In my eyes you guys have a ton of skill and could deal some of it for grit and on the flip side we have a ton of grit and could use more skill....and of course we need d-men, but we could get guys from you and flip them or something along those lines. But Horcoff is defintley THE guy that makes sense for the Habs, and like I said before it makes sense for us because of our depth down the middle. And I feel that a 2nd line centre won't be a problem in free agency because Sykora wants to re up here, and I wouldn't be shocked if Lowe brought back Mike York either by the deadline to fill a hole that could made in dealing for a d-man, or in the offseason. York played his best hockey as an Oiler, was LOVED by the organization in particular Mac T, would be a great setup man for Lupul to play with, wouldn't cost much due to his huge decline this season, it's just a right fit. Again I warn that Horcoff wouldn't be cheap, but I think he's the smartest buy....if Lowe would deal him. Cheaper then Forsberg in terms of player/prospect/pick cost, cheaper then him in actual cap cost, much much much more durable, has chemistry with Sammy, he's just the right guy for the Habs.

Vasculio 02-11-2007 04:20 PM

IMO, one of the greatest needs on the team is a guy who can park in front of the net, or at least bully his way to. Some names that I think could be attainable via trades...

Mike Knuble, PHI (without being a superstar, I think we need a guy like him, a big and physical yet not so talented guy willing to park in front of the net and win board battles)
Tomas Holmstrom, DET (untouchable? definition of the 'park in front of the net and wreak havoc there' type of game)
Ryan Smyth, EDM (fearless leader, exactly what the doc ordered, huge paytag)
Ruslan Fedotenko, TB (how is he doing this year?)
Mark Bell, SJ (underachieving this year...)
Dustin Brown, LA (untouchable? don't see him alot, is he on the Ryan Smyth mold?)
Chris Clark, WSH (washington captain... a fearless leader, need to work extra hard to get a point, but is willing to)
Scott Hartnell, NAS (might be tough to pry away, but a better version of Knuble IMO)
Manny Malhotra, CLB (might be a defensive player, but he skates really well, has good size and can hit, while being able to chip offense)
Grant Marshall, NJ (victim of the cap situation in NJ, a fearless leader, willing to do anything within his limits to win, and help the team)
Alexander Svitov, CLB (had chemistry with Perezhogin in Hamilton, still think he can develop as expected, IMO)
R.J. Umberger, PHI (could become a big second line center, is in his sophomore slump)


And some rookies/prospects of that ilk

David Backes, STL (don't know him alot, heard that he could become some kind of power center, how good, does he have potential, that I don't know)
Brian Boyle, LA (hasn't been really tested still IMO)
Ben Eager, PHI (my favorite, could become something special)
Rene Bourque, CHI (a bullish player, sophomore slump)
Ryan Craig, TB (might be tough to get)
Rob Globke, FLO (a project power forward)
Barry Tallackson, NJ (same as Globke, perhaps better potential)
Jean-Francois Jacques, EDM (I dream, or not... ?)
Petr Kanko, LA (might be small, and don't know how he fares in the AHL, but I remember him being a damn good pest able to score a bit)
Petteri Nokelainen, NYI (a pest, I like those physical Finn, they play NA style)
Eric Nystrom, CGY (probably bottom line player, but could be a good one)

No real superstars, but the style of player we need IMO


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