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-   -   Islanders willing to deal Hamrlik? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=34373)

Sundin13 12-08-2003 12:14 PM

Islanders willing to deal Hamrlik?
 
According to TSN, Roman Hamrlik days with the Islanders are reportedly numbered. He makes $3.6 Mil this year and will become a RFA with arbitration rights. After that he's an UFA.

There's some speculation that Jay Feaster is dangling prospect Alexander Svitov.

I would love to see the leafs make a deal for Hamrlik, a very solid defenceman.

Hamrlik on the Block?

herecomesdabus 12-08-2003 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundin13
According to TSN, Roman Hamrlik days with the Islanders are reportedly numbered. He makes $3.6 Mil this year and will become a RFA with arbitration rights. After that he's an UFA.

There's some speculation that Jay Feaster is dangling prospect Alexander Svitov.

I would love to see the leafs make a deal for Hamrlik, a very solid defenceman.

Hamrlik on the Block?


Yeah Stajan and Steen

sorry!

next :eek:

Pinto 12-08-2003 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herecomesdabus
Yeah Stajan and Steen

sorry!

next :eek:

Stajan,Steen> Hamrlik
I suppose the response will be, "forget about a deal then"
We could get a solid top 4 guy for much less than that

(not calling Hamrlik top 4, because he's like #2)

Mizral 12-08-2003 01:39 PM

The Canucks could very well put together a package involving Brent Sopel, RJ Umberger, or other prospects in their system. But this would not likely happen until later in the season when A) The Isles playoff chances are more apperant, and B) Most of Hammer's salary is already paid.

Darth Milbury 12-08-2003 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
The Canucks could very well put together a package involving Brent Sopel, RJ Umberger, or other prospects in their system. But this would not likely happen until later in the season when A) The Isles playoff chances are more apperant, and B) Most of Hammer's salary is already paid.


Sopel and Umberger are not going to get you Hamrlik. These are the same guys Nuck fans offer up time after time in deals (no offense meant to Mizral) and they simply are not highly sought after guys. I'd rather see the Isles trade for picks then these players. I would imagine, in fact, that the Isles would rather go with Martinek then Sopel. And, if the Isles had paid off all his salary, they could probably do a lot better. I'd frankly prefer a package of 2nd and 3rd rounders to Sopel and Umberger.

As to Pinto80, Stajan is a nice young forward but his future is probably as a decent third liner in the NHL. Steen may or may not every play in the NHL. He is nowhere near as highly ranked a prospect as Leaf fans make him out to be. Stajan and Steen together are not going to get you a number 2 dman.

IslesFan17 12-08-2003 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Sopel and Umberger are not going to get you Hamrlik. These are the same guys Nuck fans offer up time after time in deals (no offense meant to Mizral) and they simply are not highly sought after guys. I'd rather see the Isles trade for picks then these players. I would imagine, in fact, that the Isles would rather go with Martinek then Sopel. And, if the Isles had paid off all his salary, they could probably do a lot better. I'd frankly prefer a package of 2nd and 3rd rounders to Sopel and Umberger.

As to Pinto80, Stajan is a nice young forward but his future is probably as a decent third liner in the NHL. Steen may or may not every play in the NHL. He is nowhere near as highly ranked a prospect as Leaf fans make him out to be. Stajan and Steen together are not going to get you a number 2 dman.

Sopel and Umberber for Hamrlik is a lot better then some of the proposals I've read. It's not enough, but i don't think it would be that out of the question.

Sopel produces offensively and is cheaper then Hamrlik...

Pinto 12-08-2003 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
As to Pinto80, Stajan is a nice young forward but his future is probably as a decent third liner in the NHL. Steen may or may not every play in the NHL. He is nowhere near as highly ranked a prospect as Leaf fans make him out to be. Stajan and Steen together are not going to get you a number 2 dman.

Stajan is already playing better than a decent third line, and as Glenn Healey said, the only knock on him is his faceoffs, (fortunately he has Joe Nieuwendyk helping him with that)

He is nowhere near as highly ranked a prospect as Leaf fans make him out to be.

2nd among all Swedish prospects (although i dont really understand that, isnt he actually canadian?)

I bet that would definelty fetch a defenceman who will mostly like be UFA age after the lock-out. And from a team that wants to cut salary (man, im gonna hear it for that last sentence ;) )

Darth Milbury 12-08-2003 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
Sopel and Umberber for Hamrlik is a lot better then some of the proposals I've read. It's not enough, but i don't think it would be that out of the question.

Sopel produces offensively and is cheaper then Hamrlik...


Sopel is lost in his own end of the ice, and the Isles already have plenty of offensive dmen - even without Hamrlik.

And, as for Sopel's offensive abilities:

2000-01 Vancouver Canucks 52 4 10 14 4 0 0 1 0 0 0
2001-02 Vancouver Canucks 66 8 17 25 21 1 0 3 0 0 0
2002-03 Vancouver Canucks 81 7 30 37 -15 6 0 1 0 0 0
2003-04 Vancouver Canucks 25 1 11 12 5


He has had one year with more than 30 points. Never scored 10 goals in the NHL, never hit 40 points. His is weak in his own end, and limited offensively.

I realize that he plays in the top four in VCR, but this is a number 5 dman if ever I saw one. I think Martinek will eventually be better , in fact.

Darth Milbury 12-08-2003 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinto80
Stajan is already playing better than a decent third line, and as Glenn Healey said, the only knock on him is his faceoffs, (fortunately he has Joe Nieuwendyk helping him with that)

He is nowhere near as highly ranked a prospect as Leaf fans make him out to be.

2nd among all Swedish prospects (although i dont really understand that, isnt he actually canadian?)

I bet that would definelty fetch a defenceman who will mostly like be UFA age after the lock-out. And from a team that wants to cut salary (man, im gonna hear it for that last sentence ;) )


Steen is second among all Swedish prospects according to who? I'm willing to bet that, when HF's annual ranking of prospects comes out, Steen will not even be in the top 25.

Stajan may have more offensive upside, but I doubt it. Looks like a third liner to me.

I frankly think that Toronto is going to have to add something significant to that package - at least a decent pick, to get anything done. Two second tier young players < #2 defensemen.

IslesFan17 12-08-2003 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Sopel is lost in his own end of the ice, and the Isles already have plenty of offensive dmen - even without Hamrlik.

And, as for Sopel's offensive abilities:

2000-01 Vancouver Canucks 52 4 10 14 4 0 0 1 0 0 0
2001-02 Vancouver Canucks 66 8 17 25 21 1 0 3 0 0 0
2002-03 Vancouver Canucks 81 7 30 37 -15 6 0 1 0 0 0
2003-04 Vancouver Canucks 25 1 11 12 5


He has had one year with more than 30 points. Never scored 10 goals in the NHL, never hit 40 points. His is weak in his own end, and limited offensively.

I realize that he plays in the top four in VCR, but this is a number 5 dman if ever I saw one. I think Martinek will eventually be better , in fact.

He had 37 points last year, pretty close to 40 if you ask me. And he's only 26. There's room for improvement.

If you think you're gonna get a cheaper,younger version of Hamrlik, for Hamrlik, then you're going to be disappointed when the isles deal him.

CREW99AW 12-08-2003 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundin13
According to TSN, Roman Hamrlik days with the Islanders are reportedly numbered. He makes $3.6 Mil this year and will become a RFA with arbitration rights. After that he's an UFA.

There's some speculation that Jay Feaster is dangling prospect Alexander Svitov.

I would love to see the leafs make a deal for Hamrlik, a very solid defenceman.

Hamrlik on the Block?


June, 2003 Tor ask for Hamrlik,but refuses to include top prospect Antopov in the deal.

Nov. 2003 Tor asks about Peca's availibity.The sticking point is no longer Antropov who's suffered his 4th injury,both knees and both shoulders and is apparently no longer high on the nyi wishlist.The sticking point is Stajan.

Just like in the isles are asking TB for top prospect Svitov as the key to a Hamrlik deal,the nyi would ask the Leafs for a top prospect.Probably Stajan again.

another Hamrlik bidder?

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/south.../pro/082sd5.htm

Monday, December 8, 2003
By Tim Cronin
Staff writer

The hottest line for the Blackhawks isn't on the ice these days. It's the phone line.
There's been talk of a deal between the Hawks and New York Islanders, who had lost seven straight before beating the Hawks on Saturday night.

Given that the Hawks need help in all areas, and that Phoenix isn't exactly deep in any category, it's hard to fathom how either team could help the other without exposing a weakness in its own lineup. But the Hawks may be trying to pry a defenseman loose, either from the Coyotes or the Isles.

ULF_55 12-08-2003 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nillson2Berge2Weinie
Rather have Svitov and Alexeev for the Hammer than Steen and Stajan any day. Leafs are not going to get the Hammer....But they don't need him cause they have a great D already, I mean Marchment as your third and Klee as your fourth d-man, how can you beat that.

P.S before any Leaf fans comes back with a their doing as great job so far comment just remember, it's one friggin long season...Doesn't usually bode well for an old team.

Just to point out:

McCabe(28) - Kaberle(25)
Klee(32) - Berg(26)
Marchment(34) - Pilar(26)

The defense is young, and Marchment is the 6th. d-man. And before anyone points out that the defense didn't look that good earlier, it is a long season and McCabe didn't start the season with the team and Pilar only returned about 10 games ago.

Kind of difficult to see how a top 4 team in the NHL right now is so inferior to some of the disappointments this year. Mostly the same defense that had the team 4th. overall just 2 years ago.

Eventually, the much dissed defense is going to start getting some credit. Yes, they did get dumped quickly last spring ... by the best team in the NHL right now.

Pinto 12-08-2003 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Steen is second among all Swedish prospects according to who? I'm willing to bet that, when HF's annual ranking of prospects comes out, Steen will not even be in the top 25.

Stajan may have more offensive upside, but I doubt it. Looks like a third liner to me.

I frankly think that Toronto is going to have to add something significant to that package - at least a decent pick, to get anything done. Two second tier young players < #2 defensemen.

Steen is second among all Swedish prospects according to who?

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0

"Steen is the safest prospect in Sweden. He has no major weaknesses and does everything well. Steen has the tools to follow his father's footsteps and become a legend in the NHL."

I'm willing to bet that, when HF's annual ranking of prospects comes out, Steen will not even be in the top 25.

I'll bet you your life saving right now

and you think Steen will never play in the NHL?
1. Go to http://www.hockeyligan.se/index.phtml#
2. Click on "Hockey Live" on the left.
3. Click on "Frolunda Indians - MIF Redhawks"
4. A pop-up will show up, scroll down to "Highlights".

It's the third goal, Steen plays for the team in red, he's #17.

Take a look at that and tell me this 19 year old KID, will never play in the NHL

Im done, no bother arguing with someone who calls both Steen and Colaiacovo "second tier prospects"

Wherever Hamrlik gets traded too (If at all), be it Toronto, Chicago, Tampa Bay, or wherever, your going to be dis-apponted with the return, atleast if you think your getting "significantly" more

Darth Milbury 12-08-2003 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinto80
Steen is second among all Swedish prospects according to who?

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0

"Steen is the safest prospect in Sweden. He has no major weaknesses and does everything well. Steen has the tools to follow his father's footsteps and become a legend in the NHL."

I'm willing to bet that, when HF's annual ranking of prospects comes out, Steen will not even be in the top 25.

I'll bet you your life saving right now

and you think Steen will never play in the NHL?
1. Go to http://www.hockeyligan.se/index.phtml#
2. Click on "Hockey Live" on the left.
3. Click on "Frolunda Indians - MIF Redhawks"
4. A pop-up will show up, scroll down to "Highlights".

It's the third goal, Steen plays for the team in red, he's #17.

Take a look at that and tell me this 19 year old KID, will never play in the NHL

Im done, no bother arguing with someone who calls both Steen and Colaiacovo "second tier prospects"

Wherever Hamrlik gets traded too (If at all), be it Toronto, Chicago, Tampa Bay, or wherever, your going to be dis-apponted with the return unless


Basically, there are very few players outside the NHL that are sure things. I simply don't see Steen in that category. As a matter of fact, I don't see ANY prospect in either the Leaf or Islander organizations in that category. And, yes, Stajan and Steen are not top tier guys. There is a reason Steen went so late in the draft.

And, btw, we were talking about Steen and Stajan not Colaiacovo. Although I do consider Colaiacovo a second tier guy as well. None of these guys is a sure think to make an impact at the NHL level and I think Steen and Colaiacovo are probably long shots at best.

Also, I never said Steen wouldn't play in the NHL. I said that there is a possibility he wouldn't make in the NHL. And, that is true of nearly all the players drafted on the first round last year.

You're right that I'll probably be disappointed in the return for Hamrlik, but that doens't change the reality that none of these prospects are nearly as highly ranked as you suggest.

Mizral 12-08-2003 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Sopel and Umberger are not going to get you Hamrlik. These are the same guys Nuck fans offer up time after time in deals (no offense meant to Mizral) and they simply are not highly sought after guys. I'd rather see the Isles trade for picks then these players. I would imagine, in fact, that the Isles would rather go with Martinek then Sopel. And, if the Isles had paid off all his salary, they could probably do a lot better. I'd frankly prefer a package of 2nd and 3rd rounders to Sopel and Umberger.

Sorry Darth, I'm not with you on this one. Hamrlik's salary, age, and the CBA are all big detriments to his overall value. At $3.6 million, Hammer's pay is 'fair value' under the current CBA, but not many teams can pick up that kind of salary.

Age is a concern, since Hamrlik's in his prime, but can't have too many of his best years ahead of him. Furthermore, he must be approaching UFA status pretty soon again. This year I think? Could be wrong.

CBA of course we're familiar with.

I'd look at what Phoenix got for Teppo Numminen as a similar return, though the Isles should get a touch more than Silly and a 2nd round pick, mostly due to the fact that Hamrlik makes $1 million less and had a pretty good season last year, and from what I understand, isn't doing bad this year either.

Sopel, Umberger, and a pick would, in my mind, be actually quite good return for Hamrlik. I do not think you'll see an 'impact' player in return here.

In fact, you might even see less. Perhaps a Schneider-like trade, but less if he's a UFA next year.

EDIT: This summer, Sopel was identified by Canucks management along with Matt Cooke as the player they are asked the most about by other teams regarding a possible trade. To say he's not highly sought after is certainly incorrect. Yes, we both understand his deficiencies, but many GM's out there seem to love offensive defenseman, regardless of their defensive shortcomings. The return for Tom Poti a few years ago (Mike York) should be a pretty good comparison, though Poti's promise at the time was much higher than Sopel's is now.

herecomesdabus 12-08-2003 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nillson2Berge2Weinie
Rather have Svitov and Alexeev for the Hammer than Steen and Stajan any day. Leafs are not going to get the Hammer....But they don't need him cause they have a great D already, I mean Marchment as your third and Klee as your fourth d-man, how can you beat that.

P.S before any Leaf fans comes back with a their doing as great job so far comment just remember, it's one friggin long season...Doesn't usually bode well for an old team.

It's a long season defensman are known for dropping like flies, they'll come crying sooner or later. :joker:

Darth Milbury 12-08-2003 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Sorry Darth, I'm not with you on this one. Hamrlik's salary, age, and the CBA are all big detriments to his overall value. At $3.6 million, Hammer's pay is 'fair value' under the current CBA, but not many teams can pick up that kind of salary.

Age is a concern, since Hamrlik's in his prime, but can't have too many of his best years ahead of him. Furthermore, he must be approaching UFA status pretty soon again. This year I think? Could be wrong.

CBA of course we're familiar with.

I'd look at what Phoenix got for Teppo Numminen as a similar return, though the Isles should get a touch more than Silly and a 2nd round pick, mostly due to the fact that Hamrlik makes $1 million less and had a pretty good season last year, and from what I understand, isn't doing bad this year either.

Sopel, Umberger, and a pick would, in my mind, be actually quite good return for Hamrlik. I do not think you'll see an 'impact' player in return here.

In fact, you might even see less. Perhaps a Schneider-like trade, but less if he's a UFA next year.

EDIT: This summer, Sopel was identified by Canucks management along with Matt Cooke as the player they are asked the most about by other teams regarding a possible trade. To say he's not highly sought after is certainly incorrect. Yes, we both understand his deficiencies, but many GM's out there seem to love offensive defenseman, regardless of their defensive shortcomings. The return for Tom Poti a few years ago (Mike York) should be a pretty good comparison, though Poti's promise at the time was much higher than Sopel's is now.


I'm sure other teams ask about Sopel. I just don't think they offer any much. Sopel is not a true top four dman, and I see his trade value being somewhere around a 3rd rounder.

Sopel's trade value right now is nowhere near where Poti's was at the time of the Mike York deal.

Like I said, I'd take a 2nd and 3rd rounder from some team before Sopel and Umberger. I'm confident the Isles could get at least that, and it is a more worthwhile package than owhat you are offering.

Hamrlik is an RFA this summer, btw, not an UFA.

Finally, there is little reason to believe the Nucks could afford a 4 million contract right now. And, if you suggesting you'll wait until the season end when Isles have paid all his salary, why would the Isles do that? That woudn't be much of a salary dump now would it?

Pinto 12-08-2003 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
And, btw, we were talking about Steen and Stajan not Colaiacovo. Although I do consider Colaiacovo a second tier guy as well. None of these guys is a sure think to make an impact at the NHL level and I think Steen and Colaiacovo are probably long shots at best.

thank you unbiased isles fan :rolly:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
You're right that I'll probably be disappointed in the return for Hamrlik, but that doens't change the reality that none of these prospects are nearly as highly ranked as you suggest

So Steen ranked 2nd among swedish prospects, and a defenceman who nearly broke the record for points scored by a defenceman last year at the WJC shouldnt be ranked high? :dunno:

P.S I know Stajan is not a 1st tier prospect, and I never said he was

Darth Milbury 12-08-2003 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinto80
thank you unbiased isles fan :rolly:



So Steen ranked 2nd among swedish prospects, and a defenceman who nearly broke the record for points scored by a defenceman last year at the WJC shouldnt be ranked high? :dunno:

P.S I know Stajan is not a 1st tier prospect, and I never said he was



I don't even know what you mean by "Steen is ranked 2nd among all Swedish prospects." Ranked by who? This site has Steen ranked 2nd, and the Isles's Nilsson ranked first (among drafted players). However, Nilsson is a long shot to make the NHL himself and a player I would definitely say is second-tier. Neither player would be considered to be a sure thing (at least according to the scouting reports I've seen).

And, I could list a number of defensemen here who tore apart the juniors and WJC in scoring and never did anything at the NHL (like Jamie Rivers, Brian Campbell to start).

These are all second tier guys. All can be busts just as easily as they can be impact players. And, in fact, none are likely to be impact players.

I remember years ago when the Isles and Leafs were negotiating for Wendell Clark's rights. At that time, Leaf fans were tell me how great Sean Haggerty was going to be based on his high junior numbers. There was another center (whose name I forget) who was a high AHL scorer, and then got let go by the Leafs. I can't even begin to list all the "sure thing" prospects I've seen discussed at this site who never developed.

Pinto 12-08-2003 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't even know what you mean by "Steen is ranked 2nd among all Swedish prospects." Ranked by who? This site has Steen ranked 2nd, and the Isles's Nilsson ranked first (among drafted players). However, Nilsson is a long shot to make the NHL himself and a player I would definitely say is second-tier. Neither player would be considered to be a sure thing (at least according to the scouting reports I've seen).

And, I could list a number of defensemen here who tore apart the juniors and WJC in scoring and never did anything at the NHL (like Jamie Rivers, Brian Campbell to start).

These are all second tier guys. All can be busts just as easily as they can be impact players. And, in fact, none are likely to be impact players.

I remember years ago when the Isles and Leafs were negotiating for Wendell Clark's rights. At that time, Leaf fans were tell me how great Sean Haggerty was going to be based on his high junior numbers. There was another center (whose name I forget) who was a high AHL scorer, and then got let go by the Leafs. I can't even begin to list all the "sure thing" prospects I've seen discussed at this site who never developed.

why did you put "sure thing" in quotations? you said it, not me

However, Nilsson is a long shot to make the NHL himself and a player I would definitely say is second-tier.

Nilsson (correct me if im wrong) isnt even playing in the elite league, Steen is, and he's a 19 year old star in the SEL

All can be busts just as easily as they can be impact players.

thats not a good argument as you can use that about any prospect playing for any team

These are all second tier guys. And, in fact, none are likely to be impact players.

Your using your own personal opinions, not facts for these kind of statements

Face Wash 12-08-2003 05:01 PM

Kings have a need for Hamrlik... and I would be disappointed if DT didn't make an attempt.

Darth Milbury 12-08-2003 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinto80
why did you put "sure thing" in quotations? you said it, not me

However, Nilsson is a long shot to make the NHL himself and a player I would definitely say is second-tier.

Nilsson (correct me if im wrong) isnt even playing in the elite league, Steen is, and he's a 19 year old star in the SEL

All can be busts just as easily as they can be impact players.

thats not a good argument as you can use that about any prospect playing for any team

These are all second tier guys. And, in fact, none are likely to be impact players.

Your using your own personal opinions, not facts for these kind of statements


All of your arguements are personal opinions too. And, you are the one who keeps bragging about Steen being the "number two ranked prospect in Sweden." Well, the number one prospect on that same list is a second-tier prospect who is a long shot to make the NHL.

And, yeah, most junior players are long shots to make the league. But, there are guys like Spezza, JayBo, and others who are have a very high likelihood at playing. Steen is not one of those guys and neither is Nilsson.

IslesFan17 12-08-2003 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinto80
why did you put "sure thing" in quotations? you said it, not me

However, Nilsson is a long shot to make the NHL himself and a player I would definitely say is second-tier.

Nilsson (correct me if im wrong) isnt even playing in the elite league, Steen is, and he's a 19 year old star in the SEL

All can be busts just as easily as they can be impact players.

thats not a good argument as you can use that about any prospect playing for any team

These are all second tier guys. And, in fact, none are likely to be impact players.

Your using your own personal opinions, not facts for these kind of statements


Nilsson is playing his 2nd season for Leksand in the Elite League...

Pinto 12-08-2003 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesFan17
Nilsson is playing his 2nd season for Leksand in the Elite League...

What league is Leksand in?

IslesFan17 12-08-2003 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinto80
What league is Leksand in?

The SEL, just like Frolunda.


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