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-   -   Is Ryder being misused? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=343871)

waffledave 02-11-2007 07:29 PM

Is Ryder being misused?
 
Ryder takes alot of flak on these boards for his play this year and I can't say I disagree. He's been pretty brutal and inconsistent.

That being said, after attending the game on Saturday and noticing a few things, I'm starting to think it isn't necessarily all Ryder's fault. He's being misused.

Ryder is not the guy to be taking the puck into the zone. He's not the guy to be setting up plays or fishing the puck out of the corners. He should be in the soft spots, waiting for a pass that he can convert. He should never have the puck for more than a half second.

So why does he always end up leading the rush into the zone, or fishing the puck out of the corners for Koivu? He should never be the one doing that stuff, but he always is. And the result ends up being a turnover.

Ryder has been brutal and yet, he isn't punished for it. The only reason I see for this is that he's doing what he's told to do. Could the coaches WANT him to be leading the rush and going in the corners? I really don't see any other reason for him to be continuously playing top line minutes.

SpreeEndaz 02-11-2007 07:30 PM

Is Ryder being misused? Da*n right he is; he should be flipping burgers in Newfoundland.

EDIT: This is only a joke; Ryder is a very kind guy and I hope the best for his career.

Lafontaine 02-11-2007 07:32 PM

nah
 
he just sucks

habgab 02-11-2007 07:41 PM

he is being misused. If Ryder was put in his spot on the ice and told to take shots or deflect shots, he would be doing that with results. I have said all year that it seems that Ryder is no longer in front of the net - he is doing board work or behind the net sending it out front. Ryder is the one who should be out front. As well, he is expected to carry the puck in an awful lot.

If Ryder's assets were being properly used, he would not be taking all the abuse this year. Instead, the coaches are asking him to do things he is ill equipped to do.

Garry Valk 02-11-2007 07:43 PM

I like Ryder. He scores us clutch goals. He just doesn't fit with his linemates.

waffledave 02-11-2007 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habgab (Post 8019264)
he is being misused. If Ryder was put in his spot on the ice and told to take shots or deflect shots, he would be doing that with results. I have said all year that it seems that Ryder is no longer in front of the net - he is doing board work or behind the net sending it out front. Ryder is the one who should be out front. As well, he is expected to carry the puck in an awful lot.

If Ryder's assets were being properly used, he would not be taking all the abuse this year. Instead, the coaches are asking him to do things he is ill equipped to do.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

LamborGREENie 02-11-2007 07:49 PM

No, he's not being "mis-used", he's "mis-using" his skills, he puts himself in situations where he cannot use his skills properly and thus not scoring, use your head Ryder. (in another way than this: :banghead:)

waffledave 02-11-2007 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyPlayer101 (Post 8019383)
No, he's not being "mis-used", he's "mis-using" his skills, he puts himself in situations where he cannot use his skills properly and thus not scoring, use your head Ryder. (in another way than this: :banghead:)

He doesn't put himself in these situations. He doesn't go behind the net because he wants to! He doesn't lead the rush because he wants to.

JV 02-11-2007 07:51 PM

Things is out of control in Mtl. Nobody fits with their linemates for more than 15 or 20 games in a row. Ryder, Kovalev, Samsonov...and the list goes on. Every year we have a third line that becomes "untouchable", while lines one and two are inconsistent, at best, and often terrible. This year is a case in point.

Do other teams have this kind of chaos and crappy production from their top six forwards? And I'm not talking about basement dwellers or teams decimated by injury.

Freaky Habs Fan 02-11-2007 07:52 PM

misused? No...

I don't think the coaching staff is asking him to carry the puck...He's doing it by himself and I don't know why because he sucks...

The main problem with Ryder is that he don't trust his linemates so he never pass the freaking puck. That leads to many missed scoring chances and many turnovers.

So he's not being misused and he don't fit well in Montreal. He would blossom on a line with a great player in a smoother environment.

waffledave 02-11-2007 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan (Post 8019425)
misused? No...

I don't think the coaching staff is asking him to carry the puck...He's doing it by himself and I don't know why because he sucks...

The main problem with Ryder is that he don't trust his linemates so he never pass the freaking puck. That leads to many missed scoring chances and many turnovers.

So he's not being misused and he don't fit well in Montreal. He would blossom on a line with a great player in a smoother environment.

When he's the only guy actually in position to take the puck into the zone what is he supposed to do? Wait? Pass the puck backwards?

Svensken 02-11-2007 07:58 PM

Send him to the Stars... You can have... Uhm.... Patrik Stefan...

superstar436 02-11-2007 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svensken (Post 8019515)
Send him to the Stars... You can have... Uhm.... Patrik Stefan...

as someone else said I think he is misusing his skills, but also misused by his coaches cz he plays well when used at LW, look at most of his goals they were scored from there.

WeThreeKings 02-11-2007 08:16 PM

Ryder is misusing himself.

Quiet Robert 02-11-2007 08:20 PM

I think that might be a pretty good observation dave. Ryder seems to have been working on his skating and physical play, and although that's a good thing, the things he's now asked to do don't seem to quite fit with what he's good at. Namely getting into position for a shot and letting it go.

Ryder is not effective when he has to carry the puck and create his own shot. I like that he's willing to try and it, and the fact that sometimes he'll go down low and play along the boards, but his real strength is his shot. He has to get into position in the slot and just release that laser of his. He's also effective at curling in from the left side and releasing that shot from the circle there, but he hasn't been doing that as much this year. If he just keeps it simple, gets into position, goes to the net for rebounds, and basically lets the other guys worry about playmaking and puckhandling I think he'd be more effective.

Although this gets to the debate that's kind been going on around the boards for the past little while: Is it Ryder trying to do too much, whether because he has confidence in his new abilities, or is it a conscious coaching decision to try and get him to play a different style. I really don't know what the answer is, but regardless of the reason, I could buy the argument that part of his struggles are due to the role he's playing.

badfish 02-11-2007 08:22 PM

Ryder i think should just be used in front of the net... when hes on a line with higgins and koivu or even koivu and latendresse, well koivu is good at fishing out pucks and latendresse is a big body that doesnt get pushed around easy. and higgins too is good along the boards

waffledave 02-11-2007 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quiet Robert (Post 8019795)
Although this gets to the debate that's kind been going on around the boards for the past little while: Is it Ryder trying to do too much, whether because he has confidence in his new abilities, or is it a conscious coaching decision to try and get him to play a different style. I really don't know what the answer is, but regardless of the reason, I could buy the argument that part of his struggles are due to the role he's playing.

From what I noticed, it seems like he's being told to do that. That's based on what I noticed at the game, the positioning of his linemates, etc...

Stefan_Latulippe 02-11-2007 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 8019478)
When he's the only guy actually in position to take the puck into the zone what is he supposed to do? Wait? Pass the puck backwards?


He is lost without his partner :sarcasm:

Evil Ted 02-11-2007 08:34 PM

Everyone on the line has to contribute, lately Koivu and whoever else have not being playing well enough to carry Ryder.

And because of this Ryder is exposed even more as nothing but a garbageman with an excelent shot.

Until he starts to make changes to improve his game I think if your going to blame anyone for his problems it must be himself.

antidot 02-11-2007 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 8019839)
From what I noticed, it seems like he's being told to do that. That's based on what I noticed at the game, the positioning of his linemates, etc...

Absurd .

Do you really think that the coach said to him to forget his linemates , and try to do everything by himself from the red line , to the net ?

Ryder is a selfish player and he just think to one thing ; his own stats . That's why he 's playing that way ; it's not that he doesn't trust his linemates , it isn't because the coach asks him to control the puck , it's because he only thinks that if he can score , he will have a big fat contract .Period .

Blind Gardien 02-11-2007 09:13 PM

Ryder is being misused by panicky Habs fans, and that's about it. Otherwise, he's playing perfectly fine hockey, and any extra progress he has made in rounding out his game this season is only to the good.

antidot 02-11-2007 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeThreeKings (Post 8019736)
Ryder is misusing himself.

Carboneau ;
- Saku , i don't want you to control the puck now ; when you have the puck , give it as fast as you can to Ryder .Ryder is going to deke every opposite players , and than the goaler . Just look , don't do anything else .

RE-HABS 02-11-2007 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan (Post 8019425)
So he's not being misused and he don't fit well in Montreal. He would blossom on a line with a great player in a smoother environment.

You have stated the obvious, but no one here hass the balls to say Koivu is a 2nd line centre and he is not a true set up man.

Ryder could thrive in Montreal if a true playmaking 1st line legit centre was brought in to feed the puck to him. I think Ryder carries the puck too much too, but his centre in Koivu losses it as much as him because he doesn't dish it when he should.

Look at Cheechoo, he is having a bad year this year but he was always a goal scorer with the ability to be a 30+ guy. The Sharks go out and get him the centre he needs in Thornton and what does he do? Wins the Rocket Richard Trophy and becomes a 50 goal scorer. Gainey if he is smart gets that type of player for Ryder.

Kurri had Gretzky.
Hull had Oates.
Andreychuk had Turgeon, Lafontaine, Hawerchuk and Gilmour.
Neely had Janney and Oates.

There are so many players out there that were good or great goal scorers, none were setting themselves up by themself all the time. They had a playmaker who did the right pass, found their shooter open and had the skill and creativity to get that puck on their stick.

Koivu is not and can not do that.

Like you said, Ryder needs a good centreman and we do not have it...so to me the Ryder slump is not all his fault, people need to realize that instead of having a target on one player.

RE-HABS 02-11-2007 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antidot (Post 8020478)
Absurd .

Do you really think that the coach said to him to forget his linemates , and try to do everything by himself from the red line , to the net ?

Ryder is a selfish player and he just think to one thing ; his own stats . That's why he 's playing that way ; it's not that he doesn't trust his linemates , it isn't because the coach asks him to control the puck , it's because he only thinks that if he can score , he will have a big fat contract .Period .

If Ryder was playing for a contract he would be scoring, he is playing for his team and takes his benching like any other guy out there...players like Kovalev have played for a contract and they are not earning it...Saku too.:teach:

waffledave 02-11-2007 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antidot (Post 8020478)
Absurd .

Do you really think that the coach said to him to forget his linemates , and try to do everything by himself from the red line , to the net ?

Ryder is a selfish player and he just think to one thing ; his own stats . That's why he 's playing that way ; it's not that he doesn't trust his linemates , it isn't because the coach asks him to control the puck , it's because he only thinks that if he can score , he will have a big fat contract .Period .

I think the coach is trying to get him to round out his game, to improve his passing and playmaking abilities and to learn how to fish the puck out of the corners. I think he's doing this because they see Ryder as a long-term fixture on the team. If this wasn't the case, why hasn't he been benched yet?


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