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-   -   Time to cash in the chips (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=346482)

Teufelsdreck 02-17-2007 10:45 AM

Time to cash in the chips
 
I wouldn't have said this a few weeks ago, but it's obvious that the Habs don't have much to look forward to this season or even next. Huet's injury was the coup de grâce. I think it's hopeless to try to sign Souray. Better trade him while his value is at its zenith. I'd try to keep Markov, but his re-signing isn't guaranteed either. If I had known that the Habs were going to go into an irreversible tailspin since the holidays, I'd have been in favor of trading both of them plus as many others as could be moved for a bunch of prospects and draft picks. When I look at Pittsburgh I don't see any hope of the Habs catching up to them in the near future with their present nucleus. There's no Crosby, Malkin, Staal, or Fleury in Montréal. Out go Rivet, Souray, Markov, Niinimaa, Dandenault, Bouillon, Koivu, Ryder, Kovalev, Samsonov, Bonk, Johnson, Downey, Murray, Bégin, Huet, and Aebischer. Some have time remaining on their contracts but none have more than 2 years left. In their place would come fresh young faces. Of course the Habs would finish near the bottom for a few seasons, but they'd have a few young veterans plus loads of talented youngsters, including some high draft picks. We'd have to feel the pain, but what are we experiencing now?

UBCsalmonslayer 02-17-2007 10:47 AM

Trade us Souray for Bulis and Chouinard? :sarcasm:

Seriously though, we will accept a bag of pucks or a used practice jersey if you take Jane Useless back. I'm not even joking, he is that bad.

toshiro 02-17-2007 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes (Post 8103248)
I wouldn't have said this a few weeks ago, but it's obvious that the Habs don't have much to look forward to this season or even next. Huet's injury was the coup de grâce. I think it's hopeless to try to sign Souray. Better trade him while his value is at its zenith. I'd try to keep Markov, but his re-signing isn't guaranteed either. If I had known that the Habs were going to go into an irreversible tailspin since the holidays, I'd have been in favor of trading both of them plus as many others as could be moved for a bunch of prospects and draft picks. When I look at Pittsburgh I don't see any hope of the Habs catching up to them in the near future with their present nucleus. There's no Crosby, Malkin, Staal, or Fleury in Montréal. Out go Rivet, Souray, Markov, Niinimaa, Dandenault, Bouillon, Koivu, Ryder, Kovalev, Samsonov, Bonk, Johnson, Downey, Murray, Bégin, Huet, and Aebischer. Some have time remaining on their contracts but none have more than 2 years left. In their place would come fresh young faces. Of course the Habs would finish near the bottom for a few seasons, but they'd have a few young veterans plus loads of talented youngsters, including some high draft picks. We'd have to feel the pain, but what are we experiencing now?

The Habs do have good goaltending prospects.

Habs13 02-17-2007 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes (Post 8103248)
I wouldn't have said this a few weeks ago, but it's obvious that the Habs don't have much to look forward to this season or even next. Huet's injury was the coup de grâce. I think it's hopeless to try to sign Souray. Better trade him while his value is at its zenith. I'd try to keep Markov, but his re-signing isn't guaranteed either. If I had known that the Habs were going to go into an irreversible tailspin since the holidays, I'd have been in favor of trading both of them plus as many others as could be moved for a bunch of prospects and draft picks. When I look at Pittsburgh I don't see any hope of the Habs catching up to them in the near future with their present nucleus. There's no Crosby, Malkin, Staal, or Fleury in Montréal. Out go Rivet, Souray, Markov, Niinimaa, Dandenault, Bouillon, Koivu, Ryder, Kovalev, Samsonov, Bonk, Johnson, Downey, Murray, Bégin, Huet, and Aebischer. Some have time remaining on their contracts but none have more than 2 years left. In their place would come fresh young faces. Of course the Habs would finish near the bottom for a few seasons, but they'd have a few young veterans plus loads of talented youngsters, including some high draft picks. We'd have to feel the pain, but what are we experiencing now?

Insanity

kariya24 02-17-2007 11:15 AM

Habs Buying or Selling??
 
Now that we are in 10th position would we be better buying or selling?? and if we sell what are the values of players like Souray and Kovy?

WeThreeKings 02-17-2007 01:08 PM

Souray has high value. Kovalev does not, since he has two more years on his contract.

CH Wizard 02-17-2007 11:37 PM

If we keep playing mediocre till' the deadline?
 
What would you expect to happen? I seriously don't see Souray being traded because without him our team would be sad...

Do you see Rivet or Kovalev being dealt? Which player you see being dealt? Ryder maybe?

mtl_felix 02-17-2007 11:42 PM

i just think no one gets traded... unless we lose every game till the deadline where we could probably trade some of our UFAs for picks..

HFXMooseHabs 02-17-2007 11:44 PM

I think Rivet is the most likely to be traded.

CrAzYNiNe 02-17-2007 11:44 PM

Do you know what the word mediocre is?

Because I would give my left arm for the habs to be playing mediocre, they are playing LIKE ****!!!

shimy1221* 02-17-2007 11:46 PM

if we were playing medioce, id actually be happy

Rockomax 02-17-2007 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tlusty the clown (Post 8115850)
What would you expect to happen? I seriously don't see Souray being traded because without him our team would be sad...

Do you see Rivet or Kovalev being dealt? Which player you see being dealt? Ryder maybe?

I don't see kovalev being moved, Ryder maybe...As for rivet, I must admit, but I'd love it

But I must admit that I think that Sheldon would be the most likely to be traded if we're out of the playoffs race...but I don't think that we would be good sellers because I think that the players that might interest the other teams are actually higgins, komisarek and Markov (I could see markov being traded, because I don't feel like he wants to stay here...he's our best D-man and the one that I'd like to resign the most but sadly, I've got this feeling:dunno: )

Teufelsdreck 02-18-2007 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs13 (Post 8103441)
Insanity

This is exactly what Craig Patrick did with the Penguins. They used to have Jagr, Straka, Lang, Kovalev, and others not too long ago.

If he hadn't had a fire sale, do you think the Penguins would have Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, and Staal (in the chronological order of their draft years)?

Teufelsdreck 02-18-2007 12:14 AM

Kovalev is off the market this season because he won't return to action until a week or 10 days past the trade deadline.

MathMan 02-18-2007 12:47 AM

The way I see it, the strategy of "fire sale, suck, draft" has been tried before by the Habs, very recently. It didn't work too well. But then again they didn't have the best of GMs before.

I don't think it makes sense to blow up the team completely. It's in a transition/measured rebuilding phase as it is, better to let that go on 'till the end. The upcoming core of the Habs is not Koivu-Kovalev-Ryder-Souray, it's Higgins-Plekanec-Latendresse and maybe Markov. The baton is in the process of being passed to a new core.

No, Montreal cannot match Pittsburgh's depth of young talent but neither can any team. And tanking would simply not result in a similar depth of talent because there's not going to be such a collection of talent coming up in the pipeline for a long long time, even if a team tried to suck as extensively as Pittsburgh did, fortuitously at just the right time. In a cap world, Pittsburgh's collection of talent has a definite half-life to it.

I am on the fence on whether it makes sense to trade Souray or not (if they're not going to be able to resign him then he should be traded), but making a conscious decision to suck for ten more years when your top lines are loaded with first- and second-year players is ridiculous.

Kirk Muller 02-18-2007 12:57 AM

Things do need to change and it is very apparent.For me, out is Rivet, Souray, Ryder, Perezhogin, Murray, Downey, Samsonov, Niniimaa, Kovalev, and Bouillon.

As much flak as Koivu has gotten the last few months, he has never been the problem. He may never have been the solution, but he is one of the few who i would have represent this team.

Now realistically you can't gut the team. It just doesn't happen. If Souray and Markov are intent on testing free agency, then deal them, and get some young NHLers.

Lastly, and for the love of god, change the damn attitude of this team. Stop with the small, but not very speedy forwards. Stop with the skilled team who plays soft. Stop with the damn 1-2-2 system that plays on no forecheck, or aggression. Stop being a defensive team who really isn't good defensively. I've never seen a team with such a personality disorder, and is completely contradictory to how they consider themselves.

coolguy21415 02-18-2007 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes (Post 8116208)
This is exactly what Craig Patrick did with the Penguins. They used to have Jagr, Straka, Lang, Kovalev, and others not too long ago.

If he hadn't had a fire sale, do you think the Penguins would have Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, and Staal (in the chronological order of their draft years)?

That example is completely irrelevant. Montreal isn't in the same financial situation, and honestly I'm amazed Craig Patrick still has a job. It's mismanagement that caused Pittsburgh to have so many great players right now.. not Craig Patrick's genius.

Turbo 02-18-2007 01:12 AM

Realistically: Ryder, Rivet, Bouillon, Kovalev, Perezhogin are serious possibilities depending on the return.

Of course, Souray & Markov would bring the biggest return, but as you said, the team would be sad without them. And I also think both will sign and return next year - at least I think that's the team's plan.

Turbo 02-18-2007 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pink_floyd_floyd (Post 8115940)
if we were playing medioce, id actually be happy

Yeah, that too.

Miller Time 02-18-2007 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo (Post 8116758)
Of course, Souray & Markov would bring the biggest return, but as you said, the team would be sad without them. And I also think both will sign and return next year - at least I think that's the team's plan.

hmmm
that's weird, cuz I like both players and think that they are valuable, but frankly I am quite positive that the team is playing about as sad as I've ever seen any team play...
so if one or both were to be moved, what would that make us.... hmmm???

With Souray + Markov, Habs = Sad

Without Souray + Markov, Habs = Pathetic? AHL? QMJHL?...

seriously though, the team can't play any worse than it has, or at least, they can't do any worse than they have, so if Gainey can't be 100% positive that he will re-sign either or both, he needs to write of the rest of the year, move them and cash in for as much as he possibly can to MAKE SURE this kind of collapse doesn't repeat itself next year.

ECWHSWI 02-18-2007 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 8116567)
The way I see it, the strategy of "fire sale, suck, draft" has been tried before by the Habs, very recently. It didn't work too well. But then again they didn't have the best of GMs before.

I don't think it makes sense to blow up the team completely. It's in a transition/measured rebuilding phase as it is, better to let that go on 'till the end. The upcoming core of the Habs is not Koivu-Kovalev-Ryder-Souray, it's Higgins-Plekanec-Latendresse and maybe Markov. The baton is in the process of being passed to a new core.

No, Montreal cannot match Pittsburgh's depth of young talent but neither can any team. And tanking would simply not result in a similar depth of talent because there's not going to be such a collection of talent coming up in the pipeline for a long long time, even if a team tried to suck as extensively as Pittsburgh did, fortuitously at just the right time. In a cap world, Pittsburgh's collection of talent has a definite half-life to it.

I am on the fence on whether it makes sense to trade Souray or not (if they're not going to be able to resign him then he should be traded), but making a conscious decision to suck for ten more years when your top lines are loaded with first- and second-year players is ridiculous.

hmmm... when's the last time the Habs did a firesale ? when's the last time the Habs didnt try to compete to make the playoffs ?

never.


As far as signing Souray well... you know that if we resign all our players chances are we'll have about the same team next year right...

What's the point of keeping Souray if all we do while he's here is compete for the last playoff spot and lose in the 1st or 2nd round ? :dunno:

Last year, 8th spot, lost in round 1, this yeah SAME core of players and chances are we won't make the playoffs...


Anyway, going the "young" route doesnt mean sucking for the next decade... I mean, Nashville, Anaheim, San Jose, Buffalo are all teams loaded with YOUNG talents, and they ain't doing that bad if you ask me... :teach:

Kimota 02-18-2007 02:32 AM

We could do a fire sale. But that doesn't mean getting rid of everybody. The core guys with the big salaries could go like Saku, Kovy, Sourey and Rivet. And we offer a buyout to Sammy. But the rest would stay. And I would expect and hope to sign Markov long-term.

WeThreeKings 02-18-2007 07:10 AM

No way do I give up on Koivu. I'm all for trading Kovy, Souray, Rivet. Add to that list Bouillon, Ryder, Samsonov, Murray and Downey.

LamborGREENie 02-18-2007 07:14 AM

Talking about acquiring young players, there is a rumour in wich we would deal Sheldon Souray to the Sharks for Joe Pavelski and a 1st round pick...

WeThreeKings 02-18-2007 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyPlayer101 (Post 8117809)
Talking about acquiring young players, there is a rumour in wich we would deal Sheldon Souray to the Sharks for Joe Pavelski and a 1st round pick...

Which I would jump all over.


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