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-   -   My theory on Kovalev's injury (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=349811)

Kafka 02-24-2007 12:28 AM

My theory on Kovalev's injury
 
Sorry to come back with this. I know over 85% of you think he will stick with our team, but something tells me he will be dealt soon. I start with the latest argument I found for my hypothesis:

Altought he practiced lately in Montreal, doing some drills on the ice (source: Ron) even with an injuried elbow (?!?!?!?!?!?!), he isn't following the team on this trip (source: McGuire)... Wouldn't a team player in his condition (can play) be required to at least follow his teamates?

We all know that Kovalev decided to take a 3 week brake to cure his injury (he has since Christmas apparently)... after he was apparently cooked by his teamates after the Ottawa game. Three weeks from that night brings us 3-4 days after the trade limit day.

If Gainey can bring a climate in the dressing room where EVERYONE is working for the team, I believe that guys like Souray and Markov will me more interested in staying here, so will be potential UFAs from other teams.

brownman* 02-24-2007 12:40 AM

Kovalev plays hurt all season long, whether it be his knees or his elbow. He decided it was important for his elbow to heel so he hopefully won't be bothered by it come playoff time. Kovalev cares, end of. He will NOT be dealt, none of the contenders have the cap room or the players to give up to cancel out his salary.

LesCanadiens 02-24-2007 12:41 AM

I think you may be on to something here.

Y'know, I've always supported Kovalev because he is such a threat....even when he's not scoring he stretches defenses with his puck-handling. But enough is enough.

I never said anything, but I noticed something from early in the season which made be harbour some doubts about him. He was no longer talking on the bench. Last season if they showed him on the bench, he was always talking and animated. I recall they put a mike on him during a game last year too...and that talking was about the game, strategy with his linemates etc. This year, nada...just a long face.

I guess the prima-donna has blossomed. It's a shame really, all that skill, but no heart. I recall how Bowman dealt with another similar prima-donna....Pierre Larouche. Larouche would cherry-pick easy points at home and disappear on the road. So Scotty starte benching him for the home games LOL. Well, Pierre brooded. So Scotty benched him for road and home games until he got dealt to Hartford for their first pick. Which the Habs were hoping would be Mario Lemieux (Hartford was, If I remember correct, perrenial last place finishers...or close to it). Well it didn't work out as Hartford finished 4th last and Pitt tanked the season anyway.

But the point is (besides my little stroll down memory lane :) ), that we have to restore that pride in the jersey and deal harshly with cancers like Kovalev, Ribs etc. Sometimes it hurts, but the team should always come first.

cjbhab* 02-24-2007 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafka (Post 8221998)
Sorry to come back with this. I know over 85% of you think he will stick with our team, but something tells me he will be dealt soon. I start with the latest argument I found for my hypothesis:

Altought he practiced lately in Montreal, doing some drills on the ice (source: Ron) even with an injuried elbow (?!?!?!?!?!?!), he isn't following the team on this trip (source: McGuire)... Wouldn't a team player in his condition (can play) be required to at least follow his teamates?

We all know that Kovalev decided to take a 3 week brake to cure his injury (he has since Christmas apparently)... after he was apparently cooked by his teamates after the Ottawa game. Three weeks from that night brings us 3-4 days after the trade limit day.

If Gainey can bring a climate in the dressing room where EVERYONE is working for the team, I believe that guys like Souray and Markov will me more interested in staying here, so will be potential UFAs from other teams.

Who the **** is this guy? oh wait this doesn't work when the guy has a higher post count, lol

Anyway, Kovalev does care, he is a playoff warrior, you will see.

MrExpos 02-24-2007 12:46 AM

Yes, Kovalev is a cancer and the fact that we suck since December is because of him.

But our early success was because of Garth Murray's hair.

Shabutie 02-24-2007 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesCanadiens (Post 8222127)
I think you may be on to something here.

Y'know, I've always supported Kovalev because he is such a threat....even when he's not scoring he stretches defenses with his puck-handling. But enough is enough.

I never said anything, but I noticed something from early in the season which made be harbour some doubts about him. He was no longer talking on the bench. Last season if they showed him on the bench, he was always talking and animated. I recall they put a mike on him during a game last year too...and that talking was about the game, strategy with his linemates etc. This year, nada...just a long face.

I guess the prima-donna has blossomed. It's a shame really, all that skill, but no heart. I recall how Bowman dealt with another similar prima-donna....Pierre Larouche. Larouche would cherry-pick easy points at home and disappear on the road. So Scotty starte benching him for the home games LOL. Well, Pierre brooded. So Scotty benched him for road and home games until he got dealt to Hartford for their first pick. Which the Habs were hoping would be Mario Lemieux (Hartford was, If I remember correct, perrenial last place finishers...or close to it). Well it didn't work out as Hartford finished 4th last and Pitt tanked the season anyway.

But the point is (besides my little stroll down memory lane :) ), that we have to restore that pride in the jersey and deal harshly with cancers like Kovalev, Ribs etc. Sometimes it hurts, but the team should always come first.

I wish Carbo was more like Bowman...He wouldn't stand for the way Kovalev plays 95% of the time.

hototogisu 02-24-2007 12:48 AM

I didn't really give the whole Kovalev situation much thought at first because it really does look like he's been playing injured for a while...but when I learned he didn't make the trip and the other injured guys did, that kinda set something off. He's resting a sore elbow, it's not like he's laid up in a hospital bed somewhere. I know "his thing" is never showing enthusiasm but honestly he makes it look like he thinks playing hockey is a chore. Plus the general observance that everybody seems to be having more fun out there while he's out of the lineup.

In all honesty I don't think Kovalev is part of Gainey's plans anymore but he's so unmoveable (Gainey's own doing, before anyone says anything) that Gainey and Carbo are just trying to work around him.

I'm tired of the excuse that "Kovalev cares when the playoffs come"...that's all well and good but the fact that he barely even puts in the effort to help you MAKE the playoffs makes it not even worthwhile. Remember how everyone (self included) was saying/hoping that Kovalev would really turn it on in January for the playoff stretch? Yeah...

Shabutie 02-24-2007 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjbhab (Post 8222157)
Who the **** is this guy? oh wait this doesn't work when the guy has a higher post count, lol

Anyway, Kovalev does care, he is a playoff warrior, you will see.

I wish people would **** with that **** already.

Last year, Kovalev had 4 pts on Gerber in the first game, in which EVERYONE was scoring on Gerber (he had just come off of being ill and had lost 12 pds). After that, he had 2 pts in the next 6!!!! games.

Other than the 11 games he had with Koivu in the playoffs 2 seasons ago, he isn't nearly as good as people give him credit for in the playoffs.

Kafka 02-24-2007 12:51 AM

Listen guys, I am only posting an hypothesis, so please bring some ideas instead of shooting the thread starter. There is even one guy that decided to post me a personnal message instead of adding his idea to this thread, probably because he didn't want to risk being trashed by some of you.

I have to agree with your theory. Gainey said something really interesting on RDS last night to. Something along the lines of making trades with other teams.
He talked about Kovy and the RAGS. saying if there was a fit for a certain player on a certain team they would consider making moves. But what I found interesting was that he used Kovy's name specifically.

We are not saying this will happen, we are saying that there are now numerous factors adding to each other pointing in the same direction.

MrExpos 02-24-2007 12:52 AM

Kovalev had 3 points in the first game, scored the goal that saved the Habs in the second game (+ an assist and 6 shots on goal). He got 2 others points in the next 4 games.

Shabutie 02-24-2007 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrExpos (Post 8222220)
Kovalev had 3 points in the first game, scored the goal that saved the Habs in the second game (+ an assist and 6 shots on goal). He got 2 others points in the next 4 games.

Geh still, the first 2 games were easier than regular season games (to score that is). Gerber was majorly struggling due to coming off an illness.

Plekanec and Perezhogin were both better than Kovalev in the playoffs, and so were Higgins and Ryder imo (before Koivu went down, after that they were centered by Begin and Bonk for 2 games each...).

coolguy21415 02-24-2007 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrExpos (Post 8222220)
Kovalev had 3 points in the first game, scored the goal that saved the Habs in the second game (+ an assist and 6 shots on goal). He got 2 others points in the next 4 games.

To me, that still looks like a PPG player. You don't have to put up points in every game to be a PPG player.

Shabutie 02-24-2007 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedScull (Post 8222254)
To me, that still looks like a PPG player. You don't have to put up points in every game to be a PPG player.

It's more important to be a consistent player than to be a "PPG" player. Which is why I think Plekanec and Perezhogin were easily better than Kovalev.

The difference being that Pleks and Perez were giving 100% every shift....Kovalev wasn't...He never does.

MrExpos 02-24-2007 12:59 AM

He does when you need him the most, like in the playoff or at the end of the year.

le_sean 02-24-2007 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 8222189)
I wish people would **** with that **** already.

Last year, Kovalev had 4 pts on Gerber in the first game, in which EVERYONE was scoring on Gerber (he had just come off of being ill and had lost 12 pds). After that, he had 2 pts in the next 6!!!! games.

Other than the 11 games he had with Koivu in the playoffs 2 seasons ago, he isn't nearly as good as people give him credit for in the playoffs.

He's won a cup, the only other player on the Habs that has is Dandenault 3 times with a Detroit juggernaut. I think he is definitely needed for his experience. Plus it was his 2nd year in the NHL yet he got 21 pts in 23 playoff games. He was also damn good with the Penguins in their playoffs in the late 90's.

ryanghg 02-24-2007 12:59 AM

Was I the only one that saw him in the hall after the game last night with the other injured guys?

I'll write up my lengthy opinion on Kovy when I have time.

BaseballCoach 02-24-2007 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownman (Post 8222121)
Kovalev plays hurt all season long, whether it be his knees or his elbow. He decided it was important for his elbow to heel so he hopefully won't be bothered by it come playoff time. Kovalev cares, end of. He will NOT be dealt, none of the contenders have the cap room or the players to give up to cancel out his salary.

I could see Kovalev was hurt. He was uncharacteristically losing the puck on dangles and losing many more than usual of the one-on-one battles where strength on the stick mattered. IOt's very good that he is letting the elbow heal a bit, and resting the knees. We will be very happy when he is able to produce more after his return.

Playing on pain-killers, increasingly frustrated that he couldn't do the things on the ice he is normally capable of doing, it is not surprising that Kovalev didn't smile as much as other times.

By the way, guys travel with the team ONLY if they might be medically cleared to play. Carbonneau actually explained this earlier this week, regarding Higgins' presence on the current trip.

GSK* 02-24-2007 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie (Post 8222189)
I wish people would **** with that **** already.

Last year, Kovalev had 4 pts on Gerber in the first game, in which EVERYONE was scoring on Gerber (he had just come off of being ill and had lost 12 pds). After that, he had 2 pts in the next 6!!!! games.

Other than the 11 games he had with Koivu in the playoffs 2 seasons ago, he isn't nearly as good as people give him credit for in the playoffs.


And then what was the 65pts in 69games, wich made a really good ratio, the better since a long time. Oh and wait, before the lock out did he score 6 goals and 4 assist in 11 games ? Damn right, so right now, Crosby shouldn't won the Art Ross because he score so many goal and set up tamate to score on Robert Esche or Antero ?

Gimme a break, you seems to be a great poster, but everytime you talk about Kovalev, you look like a Sens fan trolling over our board.

And, when the Rangers won the Stanley Cup, who was the best player on the ice in game seven... Ask any Rangers fans would tell you that Kovalev and Mike Richter was amazing.

Turbo 02-24-2007 01:03 AM

this is all conjecture I won't comment on mere intangibles and conspiracy theories

Kovalev is what he is. He's no different than he was when he played for the Pens, Rangers or when he joined the Habs.

He can break games and command a lot of respect on the ice. Sometimes. But if he did it all the time, he would be worth way more than $4.5M. I also don't think a replacement would be easy to find before season's end, if at all.

But if Gainey can move him even just to get rid of salary, I wouldn't object to that. Best would be after a better player is traded for or signed in the off season. The freed $4.5M in cap space wouldn't get as flashy a player, but certainly a more consistent one. And with his poor point production this year, it can't be worse.

Shabutie 02-24-2007 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH Iggins (Post 8222289)
And then what was the 65pts in 69games, wich made a really good ratio, the better since a long time. Oh and wait, before the lock out did he score 6 goals and 4 assist in 11 games ? Damn right, so right now, Crosby shouldn't won the Art Ross because he score so many goal and set up tamate to score on Robert Esche or Antero ?

Gimme a break, you seems to be a great poster, but everytime you talk about Kovalev, you look like a Sens fan trolling over our board.

And, when the Rangers won the Stanley Cup, who was the best player on the ice in game seven... Ask any Rangers fans would tell you that Kovalev and Mike Richter was amazing.

Bro, Kovalev from the 90's and Kovalev from the 00's are two COMPLETELY different players.

He's always lacked consistency, but he used to play at full speed...now he plays at half speed...he slows the game down, slows his line down. He doesn't fit in with our system, or our players. Look how Samsonov and Plekanec have done without him.

Shabutie 02-24-2007 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le_sean (Post 8222283)
He's won a cup, the only other player on the Habs that has is Dandenault 3 times with a Detroit juggernaut. I think he is definitely needed for his experience. Plus it was his 2nd year in the NHL yet he got 21 pts in 23 playoff games. He was also damn good with the Penguins in their playoffs in the late 90's.

Again....That was YEARS ago, back when he moved his feet and drove the net.

It's sort of like comparing Federov of the mid 90s to the Federov of today...

Obviously very different players.

Kafka 02-24-2007 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanghg (Post 8222285)
Was I the only one that saw him in the hall after the game last night with the other injured guys?

I'll write up my lengthy opinion on Kovy when I have time.

Then, the CKAC journalists travelling with the team where wrong.

Kafka 02-24-2007 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballCoach (Post 8222287)
By the way, guys travel with the team ONLY if they might be medically cleared to play. Carbonneau actually explained this earlier this week, regarding Higgins' presence on the current trip.

But Kovalev never was medically set back...

Belso 02-24-2007 01:21 AM

IMO, I think the Habs will keep Kovalev. He was the first player in a long time last year to say "I want to bring the cup back to Montreal." He may not always make the right decisions. Which is my beef against the guy. His hockey sense some nights is as far as his stick can reach. But that seems to be his attitude when his team mates can't seem to do well.

I bet you he grew up being the GO TO guy until he hit the NHL. He seems to still play like that when he wants to win games. I've notived that when the team sucks, he hogs the puck more and tries to deek 3 guys everytime he goes to the net (usually getting past one or two). He tries to take on the whole team when his team is not playing well. I'm not sure if it's because he's selfish or he cares and wants to win. He rarely showboats. I see him point at other players often like "you da man!" He gives credit to others when it's due.

He was captain for Russia in the last olympics. He has Character and even though he's not perfect (who is) he does is best. If Gainey sees him do his best and knows he is playing hurt, I'd keep him..

Besides, if he's been playing hurt, I can see why he may be upset about it. I'm never happy when I don't contribute enough to my team if I feel I would more if I was healthy, or even if I wasn't hurt..

I say he stays...

Shabutie 02-24-2007 01:23 AM

I think a lot of you guys are hypocrites. I'm 100% sure that if Gainey trades this guy come deadline day, everyone on these boards will claim that they wanted this guy gone.


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