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KING 12-15-2003 02:56 AM

Sather's Created A Mess-y Situation
 
http://nypost.com/sports/rangers/4589.htm

Melrose_Jr. 12-15-2003 04:58 AM

Wow! I'd say that article pretty much nailed the situation. TB's gonna love this piece. ;)

I'm actually starting to feel some compassion for the players as we get to see deeper into Sather's incompetence. In the past, when he was not as much in the spotlight, we had to make assumptions about what was really on his mind. It only took 30 post-game press conferences to expose a desperate , confused man who's as out of touch with his personnel as he is with the game. No wonder he was so guarded about his comments in the past.

I don't see a solution to the problem as long as Sather has any involvement with this team.

donpaulo 12-15-2003 05:20 AM

I would probably be one of the many rangers fans on this board who would be happy to call brooks a jerk. BUT this recent article was very well written and actually enjoyable to read.
We all know sather isn't going to read any of it, nor take any of brook's advice, but this time he seems to have gotten it right.

JR#9* 12-15-2003 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Wow! I'd say that article pretty much nailed the situation. TB's gonna love this piece. ;)

I'm actually starting to feel some compassion for the players as we get to see deeper into Sather's incompetence. In the past, when he was not as much in the spotlight, we had to make assumptions about what was really on his mind. It only took 30 post-game press conferences to expose a desperate , confused man who's as out of touch with his personnel as he is with the game. No wonder he was so guarded about his comments in the past.

I don't see a solution to the problem as long as Sather has any involvement with this team.

I agree 100% and Brooks does nail it right on the head in the article as you said.


It is just OBVIOUS to anybody who follows this team that Slats is a total idiot who goes against logic and common sense in favor of wanting to make things more difficult then they are in hopes of them working out and people saying,"wow, that Slats really is a genius".

His handling of this team is just a disgrace and his motives are beyond comprehension.

It;s all about HIM and the truth of the matter is the game and the times have both passed him by in a big way.

If he was going to instill systems why not start by hiring one of the 2 very best coaches at instilling and executing such things when he had Hitch ready to come on board if he were wanted but as we all know Slats and his unjustified ego would never allow such a strong personality on board as it would've been Hitch that got credit for a turnaround and Slats couldn't let that happen.

He is the worst thing that's happened to the NYR's in quite some time and until he goes things will never be right until he's back where he belongs in western Canada.

As Brooks said, this team goes nowhere unless Holik and Lindros are leading the charge at center ice and he's 100% correct.Slats personel decisions in lines, pairings and matching have been just mindboggling and I don't care what anybody says, his moves just can't be justified with any sort of logic.

Larry Melnyk 12-15-2003 06:21 AM

I agree with Brooks on this about 90%

" It isn't one player and it isn't two or three; en masse, the Rangers overwhelmingly believe that Sather's devotion to the captain is undermining the team. "..This is one damn scary quote ...

Now, To be honest, I don't know if this is true and, if so, to what degree, but I know this was the exact reason I was campaigning against Messier's signing for months.His play was secondary to the way he would be treated and used by Sather and the way his presence would make it totally impossible for this team to develop on and off the ice.......But you know, if a guy is getting 20 mins a night, producing nothing, and getting millions he deserves blame no matter the age...But his is all secondary to the way Sather is running this team into Bolivian...In alll seriosness, it is a travesty what he had done to the Rangers and what they have become..

Now, I only said 90% above because although I think the Buffoon from Banf-f-f- has proven beyond any doubt how delusional, smug and incompetnet he his behind the bench as well as a GM, the gutless, heartless players like lindros, Nedved, Hlavac,Potii, Carter, Messier and others deserve blame for their inconsistencies, lack of production and frquent lack of effort and brains..

Fletch 12-15-2003 07:30 AM

Well, interesting bit by Brooks...
 
And honestly, though, Messier should be above Sather's criticisms. Why? Because it was Sather who signed a soon-to-be 43 year old and it is Sather who, often times, asks Messier to play as if he's 30 years old. I cannot blame Messier one bit if I see him dragging his butt out there on a second night of consecutive nights if Sather's going to put him out there for 20 minutes.

One thing I will say is that Sather did have Mess out there for about 13 minutes Friday night. Further, Mess' extra minutes on Saturday night came on the penalty kill. If Brooks would like to do his homework he may find out that Holik didn't kill penalties in Jersey (in fact, a couple seasons ago he played 9 minutes shorthanded).

Further, I Mess hasn't played the PP every night, but he did against Toronto, and I can't blame Sather for having his leading goal scorer out there on the PP.

Larry Melnyk 12-15-2003 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
And honestly, though, Messier should be above Sather's criticisms. Why? Because it was Sather who signed a soon-to-be 43 year old and it is Sather who, often times, asks Messier to play as if he's 30 years old. I cannot blame Messier one bit if I see him dragging his butt out there on a second night of consecutive nights if Sather's going to put him out there for 20 minutes.

One thing I will say is that Sather did have Mess out there for about 13 minutes Friday night. Further, Mess' extra minutes on Saturday night came on the penalty kill. If Brooks would like to do his homework he may find out that Holik didn't kill penalties in Jersey (in fact, a couple seasons ago he played 9 minutes shorthanded).

Further, I Mess hasn't played the PP every night, but he did against Toronto, and I can't blame Sather for having his leading goal scorer out there on the PP.

He's obviously above Sather's criticsm and has been for years, but he ain't above mine...I know he has been misplayed but he signed on for his millions, no? I posted last week that therfe's no need to worry about Messier the way Sather and dsome of the big guns have been performing but it just has to be noted that He's been totally worthless the last 6-7 games...A total zero--there was no reason for him to be on the PP the way he's been going....Bottom line is that I don't care about his age, I expect more.....ANd, here's this team that can't battle back from anything, can't battle adversity, and looks to be disentegrating infront of our eyes..WHo's the great Captain? Messier, and he's been totally worthless in that role also...


Yes, the big blunder was Sather resigning Messier and the biggest problem is the way Sather plays Messier, but the guy needs to do the part he is being paid to do....

And I know there are bigger problems on this team then Messier, namely Sather, Lindros, nedved, Hlavac, Poti, and others but EVERYTHING is just so screwed up....

Melrose_Jr. 12-15-2003 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
I can't blame Sather for having his leading goal scorer out there on the PP.

If Sather is employing a strategy where his best players get a bulk of the ice time, then you find a way to get Holik more than 13 minutes. I don't care what role, you just do. He's been the team's best player recently, now he's getting the least ice time of all centers. As for Messier, the guy's had 1 freakin' point in the past 6 games. He hasn't scored a goal since before Thanksgiving. Meanwhile, Lindros is being called out despite 8 points in the last 10 games. It's a situation that can't be rationalized and it's clear to me that there's something else going here.

True Blue 12-15-2003 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Wow! I'd say that article pretty much nailed the situation. TB's gonna love this piece. ;)

How well you know me. :rolly:
Anyway, I posted about this in another thread. However, I will repeat myself. I said a month or so ago that I thought that Sather was close to having a full-scale mutiny on his hands. Said mutiny will be led by Lindros and Holik. Wether or not if forced Lil' Jimmy to open his eyes is another story.
BTW, for the record, I agree with Fletch in the fact that this is not Messier's fault. It is Sather who signed a 43 year old to a $3-5m contract. Money that could have been used much more wisely on a defensive defenseman (I recall a few of us pleading that if there MUST be a signing, let it be someone like Ken Klee). That Messier is out there playing nearly 20 minutes a night, while our newest most expensive 4th liner in history is skating the 4th line. That would be Holik. And Sather is the one who has Messier playing nearly 20 minutes a night, while the next most expensive spare part in history is bounced from line to line and position to position. That would be Lindros.
I think that Sather's actions and words are going to cause a backlash against Messier. I think that it already started to happen. I point to the last Toronto game as evidence. Tucker layed a HUGE hit on Mesier and not one Ranger did anything. Granted the hit was clean, HOWEVER a team cannot allow it's captain to be banged like that with no reprecussions.
Sather has placed the team into an impossible position. And he has placed Holik, Lindros, and Messier into impossible positions. The entire team knows full well that Holik and Lindros should be the leaders. However the entire team sees a 43 year old be used like he is 30.
Unless Dolan does something and quick, this season is over. I do not know if Sather is willing to do the right thing or if it is even possible for him to properly realign his team anymore, without looking pretty foolish. And we all know that looking foolish is not something that Jackass will take to.

NJDevs430 12-15-2003 08:31 AM

Do you think Messier would make a good head coach if Sather were to recede from the limelight into the GM-only role?
Name Leetch captain (or whoever you think is best) and either call up one of your youngsters or trade for an NHL-ready center. Promote Lindors to the first line and keep Holik on the third line.
Dolan really can't look past the mirror when assessing blame, either. From what I hear on WFAN, he feels the same about Sather as Sather does about Messier.
Not that I necessarily want to help you guys out, mind you...
<(-:**

Kodiak 12-15-2003 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJDevs430
Do you think Messier would make a good head coach if Sather were to recede from the limelight into the GM-only role?

Dear God no! Mess may be a good leader, but he would be an awful coach. He hates defensive systems and would never implement one, which is a requirement for coaching in today's NHL (unless you were hired by Sather). I think giving Mess the job jest because he's Mess (after all, why should Sather change that policy now?) would be akin to the Dirk Graham disaster in Chicago. A good leader does not always make a good coach.

Av-merican 12-15-2003 08:48 AM

I never thought I'd find myself ever feeling bad for Lindros. Sather once again does the impossible. What an anachronism this old fool is...

LiquidClown 12-15-2003 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Av-merican
I never thought I'd find myself ever feeling bad for Lindros. Sather once again does the impossible. What an anachronism this old fool is...

ditto on that quote..

Couple of other things I want to add...

#1. If BROOKS LARRY BROOKS is writing an article like this, how can Sather NOT see this himself? His ego is just that big huh? Incredible.

#2. Just curious but Brooks keeps referring to how the players feel about certain aspects. How often does he speak with players do you guys think? While the article was very good, I just wonder who and when he talks to.

True Blue 12-15-2003 09:21 AM

It's hard not to see how befuddled the players must fee. Look at the comments that creep out of there. Lundmark was confused by his "role". Holik has been preaching ever since he got here that he wants a well-defined role. Carter's comments about how some players are "safe" from being called out.
Everyone and their grandmother knows that Lindros and Holik should be the on-ice leaders. Every player knows that if the playoffs are at all attainable, that it is Holik and Lindros that have to lead them there and not a 43 year old Messier. What Jackass is doing is simply unfathomable.
Most teams are a reflection of thier coach. Has anyone looked more confused in the since Thanksgiving than Sather? And the team certainly reflects it. Sather has made one blunder after the other. Again, what is the difference between Sather and Trotts?
BTW, notice that our resident Sather apologists, Glenjar, has been conspicously quiet. What's the matter? Where are the "Sather is great" comments now?

Laches 12-15-2003 09:34 AM

The whole problem here is that Sather is playing two roles, and he stinks at both of them. He's a miserable coach, but he's just as miserable a GM. The focus lately has been on his highly questionable coaching decisions but really, the construction of this team is flawed to the core. Too many finesse players who are afraid to get their uniform dirty, not enough guys to do the dirty work. Too many guys who are playing for a paycheck. Yeah, a coaching change would be nice, but this is an utterly uncoachable team. That's one reason there's been no change from Low to Sather to Trottier.

NYIsles1* 12-15-2003 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Again, what is the difference between Sather and Trotts? BTW, notice that our resident Sather apologists, Glenjar, has been conspicously quiet. What's the matter? Where are the "Sather is great" comments now?

Trottier knew what he was doing. He said when he was hired he wanted Messier to play 8-10 minutes on a fourth line. Trotts never got to do what he wanted to do and it seems he is played just as Sather is now playing him and that Trotts never had a fair chance.

Anyone who has followed Messier's career knows he likes control of every aspect of a team and is not shy about speaking up about players who do not fit. The idea he is casual about his minutes or playing on a third or fourth line is just not consistent with the same player who two years ago refused to sit when Ron Lowe wanted him to.

This is a man Sather supposedly offered the head coaching position to.

The media likes and needs Messier. Brooks comments is as close as it will get to questioning if Messier expects a certain amount of time each game.

Dellapina's comment in the News today is the one I found interesting:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...p-128897c.html

Trouble is, like at least seven other Rangers forwards - including injured Jamie Lundmark but excluding Mark Messier, who has willingly centered third and fourth lines all season - Lindros can't feel like a contributor unless he's on an offensive-oriented line.

Willingly? Seems like he is doing Sather a favor. After Messier's comments about Lindros needing to lead the team on the ice, why not let him get the minutes and a settled role with Holik and Nedved as the other centers?

True Blue 12-15-2003 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Willingly? Seems like he is doing Sather a favor. After Messier's comments about Lindros needing to lead the team on the ice, why not let him get the minutes and a settled role with Holik and Nedved as the other centers?

Why? Because Jackass will not use Messier in a 4th line role. Lindros, Holik, Nedved will either be wasted on the 4th line of shoved out of position so that Messier does not play the 4th line.
Say what Sather wants to about Lindros or Nedved being either on the 4th line, is one thing. But Holik? What the eff' does Sather want out of him? Everyone knew that Holik's value is not as a scorer. For the last 6 weeks, Holik has been everything that we as Ranger fans expected him to be. Did Jackass just think that aby payng him $45m, Holik would suddenly become a 40 goal scorer? I really would love to know Sather's justification of playing Holik as a 4th liner.

33teddy33 12-15-2003 01:35 PM

The funny thing is, nothing will be done about this all.
Sather is in total control in NY.
We will lose another season this year boys and girls.
Thank you Glen Sather.
Too bad...... :mad:
The Rangers "coulda been a contenda'!" - as the saying goes.

Theres always next year?? TBA? CBA? Maybe?

dedalus 12-15-2003 02:32 PM

I find it a humorous irony that Sather is jerking Lindros around in a way that no coach did in Philly, yet there's nary a peep from Bonnie and Carl Lindros. Jeez! The ONE time you'd like to see these people be the royal pains in the ass that they're capable of being, and they sit on their hands.

Brooklyn Ranger 12-15-2003 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dedalus
I find it a humorous irony that Sather is jerking Lindros around in a way that no coach did in Philly, yet there's nary a peep from Bonnie and Carl Lindros. Jeez! The ONE time you'd like to see these people be the royal pains in the ass that they're capable of being, and they sit on their hands.

Maybe Eric has finally grown up and decided to fight this one himself. I'm not suggesting that Eric didn't do his fair share of the battle in Philly, just that he's told his parents to stay out of it here.

I'm also beginning to get the feeling that Eric (gasp!) might actually like playing in New York and doesn't want to rock the boat and get himself traded to Washington. Maybe he likes the fact that until Sather rather irrationally called him out that he hasn't been the center of attention here.

Maybe pigs are flying past my window and I just can't seem them cause it's night :shakehead

Son of Steinbrenner 12-15-2003 04:46 PM

with all do respect folks and i know this isnt what anybody wants to hear but on some nights messier is our best center. he deserves more ice time than nedved and lindros right now. as sad as as it is :cry:

Son of Steinbrenner 12-15-2003 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dedalus
I find it a humorous irony that Sather is jerking Lindros around in a way that no coach did in Philly, yet there's nary a peep from Bonnie and Carl Lindros. Jeez! The ONE time you'd like to see these people be the royal pains in the ass that they're capable of being, and they sit on their hands.

i think mr and mrs lindros were justified in being angry with there sons treatment in phily. if you thought your son was being treated badly wouldnt you stick up for him?

with that all being said i think lindros needs to salvage his career somewhere else and get the heck out of dodge! he just cant finish

LiquidClown 12-15-2003 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar jar links

with that all being said i think lindros needs to salvage his career somewhere else and get the heck out of dodge! he just cant finish


First he should never have been brought here in the first place.
Second if you're saying Lindros can't finish while he's finishing 13% of his shots then Kovalev (5%) Nedved (8%) Rucinsky(12%) Leetch (11%) Hlavac (8.5%) all should be able to finish their careers elsewhere also right? They all have lower shooting percentages than Lindros does.
Third Lindros is way down on the list of problems right now :joker:

Larry Melnyk 12-15-2003 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar jar links
with all do respect folks and i know this isnt what anybody wants to hear but on some nights messier is our best center. he deserves more ice time than nedved and lindros right now. as sad as as it is :cry:

With all due respect jar jar, messier has played like utter crap the last 6 games or so but with the double standard and favorite son treatment he still gets 20 mins of ineffecitve ice time againt the Loafs and other teams as Sather takes turns screwing Holik and blaming Lindros when in fact it's the tired Messier that should be sat out and used less to keep him fresh or he'll keep on putting up zeroes like recently.. ..Now, if it was Messier instead of Nedved, I wouldn't have a problem rright now except for the normal one that I think this team is incapable of winning and growing as long as Messier is on it (has nothing to do with his play on the ice)..

Son of Steinbrenner 12-15-2003 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidClown
First he should never have been brought here in the first place.
Second if you're saying Lindros can't finish while he's finishing 13% of his shots then Kovalev (5%) Nedved (8%) Rucinsky(12%) Leetch (11%) Hlavac (8.5%) all should be able to finish their careers elsewhere also right? They all have lower shooting percentages than Lindros do
Third Lindros is way down on the list of problems right now :joker:

hindsight is 20-20. the fact is lindros is here hasnt played well for a year and a half and its time trade him. great stat but do you have one for times lindros has missed the net?


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