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-   -   What would it take for Phi to land Kolzig? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=36223)

mrs9x 12-15-2003 12:47 PM

What would it take for Phi to land Kolzig?
 
Ok, it is clear from the weekend that the Flyers need to upgrade in goal. I have heard that Olaf Kolzig is unhappy in Washington (this per Barry Melrose, so take that with some skepticism). Assume that is true. What would it take for the Flyers to come up with Kolzig?

I was thinking maybe Gagne and Dennis Seidenberg for Kolzig. The only problem is that Washington will want a goalie in return, and from a Philly standpoint they would rather get rid of Hackett than Esche. So maybe throw in Hackett as well.

What would you Washington fans want? Be realistic here - no Pitkanen, he isn't going anywhere.

Dr Love 12-15-2003 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs9x
Ok, it is clear from the weekend that the Flyers need to upgrade in goal.

No, it's clear that they need Esche back. He has been clearly better this season.

The Flyers won't be trading for a goalie. Hackett and Esche are here to stay, like it or not.

BrianBurke 12-15-2003 12:56 PM

The Flyers with a goaltending problem?!?! No way!
Fire Bobby Clarke and bring Ronnie Hextall out of retirement. Problem solved.

Seriously though... Gagne's a lot to give up for Kolzig. If I were a Caps fan I'd love to get just him for Ollie, never mind another good young prospect.

mrs9x 12-15-2003 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Love
No, it's clear that they need Esche back. He has been clearly better this season.

The Flyers won't be trading for a goalie. Hackett and Esche are here to stay, like it or not.

Yeah, I think that Esche will become our starter once he comes back. Anyone know when he is back in the lineup?

Biscuit Bullet 12-15-2003 02:18 PM

Williams and Woywitka for Kolzig and a 3rd.

John Flyers Fan 12-15-2003 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzai
Williams and Woywitka for Kolzig and a 3rd.

With the differences in price you wouldn't get Williams striaght up.

John Flyers Fan 12-15-2003 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Love
No, it's clear that they need Esche back. He has been clearly better this season.


He's also been th eguy Hitchcock has talked about long before we signed Hackett, and he'll be back in a week.

Marshall 12-15-2003 03:28 PM

I'm not sure Philly would want Kolzig.

BrooklynCapsFan 12-15-2003 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs9x
I was thinking maybe Gagne and Dennis Seidenberg for Kolzig. The only problem is that Washington will want a goalie in return, and from a Philly standpoint they would rather get rid of Hackett than Esche. So maybe throw in Hackett as well.

What would you Washington fans want? Be realistic here - no Pitkanen, he isn't going anywhere.

That's really really generous. I think Kolzig's got 2 years on his contract after this season at 6 million per. It might only be one year though.

We actually wouldn't need a goalie in return because you gave us one already. If the caps do this it's a rebuilding move, but I wouldn't really call it a salary dump when you consider Kolzig can be a really good playoff goalie and 6 million ain't too bad for those guys.

How about:

Woywitka and Seidenberg for Kolzig and a 2nd?

That kind of decimates your D prospects though. Maybe a 2nd/3rd instead of Seidenberg? :dunno:

Hextall27 12-15-2003 04:10 PM

Phillys goaltending isn't a problem, all they need is a guy (or two) who can win them a playoff series, Hackett and/or Esche can do that. Hacketts having a great year so far...a couple of off games doesnt make for a bad season. Hes near top 10 in almost every major stat.

DaleHunter 12-15-2003 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs9x
Ok, it is clear from the weekend that the Flyers need to upgrade in goal. I have heard that Olaf Kolzig is unhappy in Washington (this per Barry Melrose, so take that with some skepticism). Assume that is true. What would it take for the Flyers to come up with Kolzig?

I was thinking maybe Gagne and Dennis Seidenberg for Kolzig. The only problem is that Washington will want a goalie in return, and from a Philly standpoint they would rather get rid of Hackett than Esche. So maybe throw in Hackett as well.

What would you Washington fans want? Be realistic here - no Pitkanen, he isn't going anywhere.

1.) The Capitals would probably not want a goalie in return unless he's a lame duck UFA type. We already have Ouellet who's probably ready to step in right now as our #1 (should Kolzig go). At the very least, he could platoon with Stana.

2.) The Capitals need defensemen... VERY BADLY. Gagne would be great, but it doesn't address our need.

I like a proposal of Woywitka and a 2nd for Kolzig... though I'd be willing to add a bit to get Pitkanen, I know the Flyers won't be giving him up since he's by far your best young defensemen. But then again... you do have Bobby Clarke running your organization and he's been known to get taken to the cleaners when it comes to trade value balance. (Case in point, the Ouellet deal).

If the Capitals do trade Kolzig, it basically means we've given up on this season. Look for Bondra to go shortly before or after Kolzig if that happens. But seeing as how the management and ownership still think we can pull ourselves out of this pit and grab an 8th spot, I don't see us trading Kolzig.

stanley 12-15-2003 04:26 PM

Nothing is clear from this weekend other than the Flyers and Devils are both good hockey clubs and very competitive. Nobody's fans have an inferiority complex like those in Philadelphia. Esche and Hackett have been great this year, and one bad weekend (actually, one braincramp on Neidermeyer's goal and one bad goal to Elias) isn't a reason to divert from the course and start making wholesale changes.

Someday the lamb will lie down with the lion (although he'll keep one eye open), and Flyer fans will stop living and dying with every single game.

Hexy isn't retired. He's the Flyers' Director of Hockey Personnel.

mrs9x 12-15-2003 04:32 PM

Well...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley
Nothing is clear from this weekend other than the Flyers and Devils are both good hockey clubs and very competitive. Nobody's fans have an inferiority complex like those in Philadelphia. Esche and Hackett have been great this year, and one bad weekend (actually, one braincramp on Neidermeyer's goal and one bad goal to Elias) isn't a reason to divert from the course and start making wholesale changes.

Someday the lamb will lie down with the lion (although he'll keep one eye open), and Flyer fans will stop living and dying with every single game.

Hexy isn't retired. He's the Flyers' Director of Hockey Personnel.

I'm not saying that wholesale changes need to be made, but if we could get Kolzig for something like Woywitka and a 3rd, I would seriously think about it. Kolzig can win us playoff series, but I'm not sure Hackett or Esche can. Esche is better, maybe we should just give him more starts and let him be the #1 guy.

But if Kolzig can be had for cheap around the trade deadline, I'd bite. It will be interesting, especially if the Caps are not in playoff contention.

ZombieMatt 12-15-2003 04:37 PM

I don't understand how pretty much two bad goals given up by one goalie seals the fate of TWO goalies who had played very well up until that point.

This is ridiculous. Philadelphia is not looking for a goaltender, and will be quite happy with Esche when he gets back.

neelynugs 12-15-2003 05:24 PM

what about ouelette and a 1st, 2nd & 3rd round pick? :joker: :joker:

ATG 12-15-2003 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs9x
Ok, it is clear from the weekend that the Flyers need to upgrade in goal. I have heard that Olaf Kolzig is unhappy in Washington (this per Barry Melrose, so take that with some skepticism). Assume that is true. What would it take for the Flyers to come up with Kolzig?

I was thinking maybe Gagne and Dennis Seidenberg for Kolzig. The only problem is that Washington will want a goalie in return, and from a Philly standpoint they would rather get rid of Hackett than Esche. So maybe throw in Hackett as well.

What would you Washington fans want? Be realistic here - no Pitkanen, he isn't going anywhere.

What's the problem philly's goalies are doing fine

Dizzy 12-15-2003 08:15 PM

Philly does not want Kolzig, not with the season he's having. Hackett and Esche have been playing fine, and they've definitely been playing better than Kolzig. If I were Philly I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

CapitalsCupFantasy 12-15-2003 08:34 PM

Oh come on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Piggy2
Philly does not want Kolzig, not with the season he's having. Hackett and Esche have been playing fine, and they've definitely been playing better than Kolzig. If I were Philly I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.


Kolig is playing behind the worst D in the NHL. Out him on a top team, and he contends for the Vezina.

Steve L* 12-16-2003 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanwon
Kolig is playing behind the worst D in the NHL. Out him on a top team, and he contends for the Vezina.

Exactly, but unfortunately Clarke has commited to Hackett by giving him a 2 year NTC so I dont see a goalie deal unless Hackett goes down for a long time which is always a possibility.

messy_eh 12-16-2003 05:14 AM

If and I stress if Philly is looking for a goalie why would they give up substantial players for Kolzig when they can get Cujo for nothing if they want all his salary or they could offer Detroit a Leclair for Cujo swap to balance salary. I could see a deal like Gagne or Williams, Woywitka, and Esche for kolzig but only if Washington throws in Gonchar and I can't see that happening. The Goalie market is somewhat flooded Cujo, Burke, kolzig, Salo, etc all available and no one is looking. A guy like Hackett or Esche might interest the Avs but they wouldn't give up the world for them. I think With the market the way it is i would guess that Woywitka and a 3rd would be enough for Kolzig.

Dizzy 12-16-2003 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanwon
Kolig is playing behind the worst D in the NHL. Out him on a top team, and he contends for the Vezina.

Washington's D is horrendous, but I don't think they're totally to blame for the season Kolzig's having. He's letting in some horrible goals all on his own.

Marshall 12-16-2003 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piggy2
Washington's D is horrendous, but I don't think they're totally to blame for the season Kolzig's having. He's letting in some horrible goals all on his own.

Agreed. Kolzig has let in some real cupcakes - shots from the blue line, etc.

For those that are interested, the Post is running an article today on the big 'tender's woes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Dec15.html

stanley 12-16-2003 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neelynugs
what about ouelette and a 1st, 2nd & 3rd round pick?

Ba-dump, ba - tissshhh! Thank you, and don't forget to tip your waitress.

9x,
It's not that Kolzig wouldn't be a better goaltender than either Esche or Hackett at this time (I still think Esche can be an All-Star-caliber goaltender). I do. It's that he will cost the Flyers something in return off their roster or one of their good young prospects. Factor in Hackett's no-trade clause (no second-shooter theories, please - he's not waiving it) and their budget and one has to wonder why in the world they'd make such a move. They'd be forced to trade Esche - something they don't want to do - and would add about $5M or so per season. The added value is not worth the added trouble.

I don't think Cujo is a better goaltender at this point in time. I've seen him play a couple of times this year (all you have to do is watch Red Wing Network, ESPN, as they're on twice a week), and he looks "messed up." He just doesn't have it. He's damaged goods at this point in time.

I know Steve is sick of reading this from me, but I think you guys would be best served to forget the goaltending situation. You have to know they're not going to do anything with it unless something catastrophic (a long-term injury) happens. Even then, I'd expect them to find a cheap backup or go with Nittymaki before they committed to a third goaltender.

swflyers8* 12-16-2003 06:22 AM

Our goaltenders are and will do fine. Everyone (even me), got real bent out of shape with Hackett's brain freeze on the Neids goal but that is all it is, a reaction. As soon we start winning games again, no one will bad mouth our goalies. Based on the money we put out for Hackett, we got a good deal. He is a decent goalie. With him and Esche we only have 4losses. Only 4! It's not the goalie we need to fix, we need a more physical defense presence. At the game on Saturday, I saw Therien and Desjardins get knocked all over the ice.
Therien is just a waste and as much as I like Rico, he's getting up there.
We need to trade for a physical defenseman by the trade deadline. We need someone who can just physically take over a game. We have no clear cut guy that can clear the porch.

Just tossing names out here now:

Vitaly Vishnevski (ANA), maybe Matvichuk from DAL (way out there),
Scott Hannan (SJ), Tom Poti

Dr Love 12-16-2003 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swflyers8
We need to trade for a physical defenseman by the trade deadline. We need someone who can just physically take over a game. We have no clear cut guy that can clear the porch.

Just tossing names out here now:

Vitaly Vishnevski (ANA), maybe Matvichuk from DAL (way out there),
Scott Hannan (SJ), Tom Poti

Tom Poti?


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