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-   -   Can Henrik Steal the Vezina??? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=362438)

GWOW 03-26-2007 10:24 PM

Can Henrik Steal the Vezina???
 
I think he can. If he wins, say five of his last six games, and has his SPCTG at 920 and his GAA at 2.20, I can see him surge past Brodeur and his 12 shutouts. Now my question is this: Is the Vezina an MVP for Goalies or is it recognizing statistical dominance?

Right now Luongo might very well be both MVP and Vezina, but considering Pitt's huge turnaround, it's tough for Crosby not to win both Hart and Ross.

Hart:
Luongo
Crosby
Sakic (if Colorado squeeks in or not)

Vezina:
Luongo
Brodeur
Henrik


One thing is certian, Henrik is both Hart and Vezina since the All-Star Break. If Thornton can use an outstanding second-half to earn the MVP (which I felt he was most certainly not, last season), I can see Henrik doing the same with the Vezona. But the anti-NY bias will always hurt him.

Onion Boy 03-26-2007 10:27 PM

I don't think Henke has a chance at the Vezina. Sure he's been the best goalie in the NHL over the past month or so, but it doesn't make up for his slow start. He doesn't have the wins to match Brodeur or Luongo either.

The Vezina will definitely go to one of those two, but it'll be interesting to see who gets the third nomination. I guese Hasek would be the frontrunner right now?

NYRMatt 03-26-2007 10:33 PM

Hasek
Dipietro
Luongo
Brodeur
Lundqvist
Kipprusoff

Are are likely candidates for the Vezina.

DutchShamrock 03-26-2007 10:36 PM

I think the Vezina is based more on statistics and Henrik's first half is too high a hill to climb. If he was even middle of the pack in the first 3 months I think he would be a definite candidate, probably a front runner.

MVP is more reasonable. He is clearly the MVP of this team and the MVP of the NHL since Christmas. He is willing this team in to the postseason. His stats are obviously fantastic but when you consider the scoring futility during this current run... it is astonishing that the Rangers are actually in contention. If his GAA was a quater point higher we might be in 9th or 11th place.

Now I doubt he even gets nominated for the Hart but he has a better shot at that trophy than the Vezina.

Geogaddi 03-26-2007 10:59 PM

I see the Vezina falling like so with Henke being a Runner up again

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist

NYRSinceBirth 03-26-2007 11:06 PM

If Henke had shutouts the rest of the season I don't think they'd give it to him.

Balej20* 03-26-2007 11:06 PM

If he remains dominate over the last 6 games, posts maybe a shut out or two, and wins 4, I still think he has to be recognized as a legit. candidate for both the Hart and Vezina. As was mentioned earlier, Joe Thornton used a 2nd half surge to win the MVP (which he didn't deserve), I don't see why Lundqvist, who actually wasn't as bad as some of you are making him out to be in the first half, can't do the samething.

Lets get crazy here and say he wins all 6 games (wont happen, but this is hypothetical). That gives him 40 wins, which puts him in an elite category of 40 win goalies. He would then have the win total, and all his other stats will be plenty good enough to give him a real shot to win both awards.

GWOW 03-26-2007 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjb3599 (Post 8658178)
I don't think Henke has a chance at the Vezina. Sure he's been the best goalie in the NHL over the past month or so, but it doesn't make up for his slow start. He doesn't have the wins to match Brodeur or Luongo either.

The Vezina will definitely go to one of those two, but it'll be interesting to see who gets the third nomination. I guese Hasek would be the frontrunner right now?



You don't think they'll take the team Hasek plays for into consideration? I mean, at what point can you say he carried the Wings on his back for two months? That's why I wanted opinions on whether the Vezina is a stats award or not. When Beezer won it in 1986 with a 3.32 GAA, he had a much higher GAA and lower winning pct than Froese and Philly was a better team in the regular season. Clearly Luongo is having his best season, but I still think Henrik has an outside chance of stealing it

Clumsyhab 03-26-2007 11:13 PM

He has to make sure to put his mask on. :biglaugh:

n8 03-26-2007 11:29 PM

if he gets shut outs the rest of the way, he'll have 40 wins, a GAA of 2.07, 11 shutouts. If he averages around 30 saves a game, he'll have a sv% of 0.92

Brodeur already has 43 wins, a GAA of 2.22, sv% of 0.922 and 12 shut outs.

Luongo also already has 43 wins, a GAA of 2.29, sv% of 0.921 and 4 shutouts.

I think the only way Henke "steals" the Vezina is if both Brodeur and Luongo lose the rest of their games, Henke has shutouts for the rest of his games, and the Rangers manage to take over 1st in the division. Which would also require some floppage from Fleury who is also ahead of Henke in wins but not GAA and sv%. There are still quite a few goalies ahead or near Henke's current mark as well (Miller, Kipper, Hasek)

ExiledRangersFan 03-26-2007 11:32 PM

Like most other people are saying, I don't think Henrik has the stats to steal the Vezina due to his shaky start and the poor defense the team played for so long. I think he should be considered for the Hart, but I imagine the league will want that to go to Crosby.

Fish 03-26-2007 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 (Post 8658139)
Is the Vezina an MVP for Goalies or is it recognizing statistical dominance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vezina_Trophy
Quote:

The Vezina Trophy is awarded annually to the person deemed the best ice hockey goaltender as voted on by the general managers of the teams in the National Hockey League.
Well Kiprusoff won it after a crappy start last year...ultimately though I think he ends up in the final three and loses out to Hasek, Brodeur or Luongo.

VJ Rangerfan 03-26-2007 11:38 PM

Although Henke has turned this team around, we were picked to make the playoffs and make noise once we got there. Pittsburgh on the other hand was picked to finish near the bottom, but were going to have a strong team in another year or two, which is why Crosby along with his 100+ points is a shoe in for the Hart.

If the Vezina wasn't only done on stats, Henke might have a chance as he's been the best goalie in the league since the All-Star break. If the team had been playing like this all year and hadn't left him out to dry the 1st half, he'd be winning the Vezina for sure.

In Lundy's eyes I'm sure he could care less about the Hart or the Vezina. He'd much rather have the Conn Smythe and the Stanley Cup

Fish 03-26-2007 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VJ Rangerfan (Post 8658718)
If the Vezina wasn't only done on stats, Henke might have a chance as he's been the best goalie in the league since the All-Star break.

It's not done only on stats...

GWOW 03-27-2007 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish (Post 8658828)
It's not done only on stats...

Exactly what I'm thinking. Osgood murdered Carey in stats in 1996 but it was Carey who won the Vezina. That's just another example. Or maybe Kolzig edging out Turek in 2000. The only thing I am worried about the is Canadian bias (as far as Canadian-based teams). The entire western conference, for the most part, did not see henrik play at all this season, especially in the second half when he has been the most dominant goalie, if not player, in the sport. I know when I used to cover hockey games, a hockey writer from say, Boston, would say Bourque in the twilight years of his career was having a better year than Leetch because of the few games he saw him play that year. While we know Ray Bourque was pretty insignificnat his last few years (that NHL All-Star selection was a sympathy vote), the praise he got was mainly due to his reputation, which is why I can see marty walking away with it.

I know Kenrik couldn't care too much about whether he wins or not, but the fact that we are even talking about the possibility of him being a winner of the Vezina, let alone a nominee, shows what kind of a second half he's had.

Can anybody find a game-log comparison since the all-star break (wins, GAA, SPCT) between Brodeur, Luongo and Henrik?

The Kingslayer 03-27-2007 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatal_NYR (Post 8658223)
Hasek
Dipietro
Luongo
Brodeur
Lundqvist
Kipprusoff

Are are likely candidates for the Vezina.

Hes not having a Vezina yr

Ola 03-27-2007 03:29 AM

FIsh- Cool pickup on the Vezina, GM's vote for it, didn't know that.

It used to go to the one with the best GAA if I remember correctly, but I thought the press voted about it.

I think Lundqvist's shot is to land us the 6th place, and keep up the tremendous numbers, maybe win the player of the month award. I think he needs to get more buzz around him.

If he can do that, the competition to become atleast a candidate isn't that tough. Though, I am sure allot of people in the west feel that Roberto Luongo should win it, and they won't let Lundqvist change their minds as long as Roberto are ahead of him in the stat-sheets. Lundqvist might defenitly steal some votes in the East from Marty, everyone know how good NJD are defensivly, and have seen Marty struggle lately, and they have seen time after time how amazing Lundqvist have been.

Beeing top 3 would be nice, though he will probably have to wait till next season to win it! ;)

UAGoalieGuy 03-27-2007 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 (Post 8658139)
I think he can. If he wins, say five of his last six games, and has his SPCTG at 920 and his GAA at 2.20, I can see him surge past Brodeur and his 12 shutouts. Now my question is this: Is the Vezina an MVP for Goalies or is it recognizing statistical dominance?

Right now Luongo might very well be both MVP and Vezina, but considering Pitt's huge turnaround, it's tough for Crosby not to win both Hart and Ross.

Hart:
Luongo
Crosby
Sakic (if Colorado squeeks in or not)

Vezina:
Luongo
Brodeur
Henrik


One thing is certian, Henrik is both Hart and Vezina since the All-Star Break. If Thornton can use an outstanding second-half to earn the MVP (which I felt he was most certainly not, last season), I can see Henrik doing the same with the Vezona. But the anti-NY bias will always hurt him.

Hey buddy. Are you home from Iraq yet or still over there?

DutchShamrock 03-27-2007 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balej20 (Post 8658489)
If he remains dominate over the last 6 games, posts maybe a shut out or two, and wins 4, I still think he has to be recognized as a legit. candidate for both the Hart and Vezina. As was mentioned earlier, Joe Thornton used a 2nd half surge to win the MVP (which he didn't deserve), I don't see why Lundqvist, who actually wasn't as bad as some of you are making him out to be in the first half, can't do the samething.

Lets get crazy here and say he wins all 6 games (wont happen, but this is hypothetical). That gives him 40 wins, which puts him in an elite category of 40 win goalies. He would then have the win total, and all his other stats will be plenty good enough to give him a real shot to win both awards.

I thought his 1st half wasn't that bad and much of the "poor" numbers can be attributed to poor play (like the good numbers in the second half) but the problem is they are still poor numbers in the first half. His clicking along at a 1.6 GAA or something in the second half of his season and he is still only a 2.3 GAA overall. As someone pointed out, if he posts shutouts in his final 6 games he will get the GAA down to 2.07. An achievement like that and it is still about 2, that just goes to show you how bad the stats were in the begining. We know how well he played but the other 29 GMs don't. They generally go with stats.

#66 03-27-2007 07:05 AM

IMO he could steal the Hart. The Rangers aren't that good and without Hen-Rik they would be dead in the water.

JLHockeyKnight 03-27-2007 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #66 (Post 8659832)
IMO he could steal the Hart. The Rangers aren't that good and without Hen-Rik they would be dead in the water.

Though #66 is right, I think Henrik really has no chance for the Vezina. I'm pretty sure that's going to Brodeur, considering the Devils play a system based around defense and Brodeur, and they're leading the Atlantic(heh, barely) he'll take it cause of his numbers and the amount his team depends on him.

ap215 03-27-2007 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #66 (Post 8659832)
IMO he could steal the Hart. The Rangers aren't that good and without Hen-Rik they would be dead in the water.

He's got a shot and i agree if there was no Henrik the Rangers would be nowhere.

Vodka Drunkenski 03-27-2007 08:12 AM

He'll be nominated but won't win it.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 03-27-2007 08:24 AM

Probably not.

McDonagh27 03-27-2007 08:26 AM

What's with all the team bashing? I for one think this is at least a playoff roster (even IF Henke is stealing games lately).. It seems like everyone is saying we're the Blackhawks + Lundqvist.. Especially from Philly Fans:shakehead


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