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-   -   Peter Prucha, Where Does He Play? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=363541)

mucker* 03-30-2007 01:35 AM

Peter Prucha, Where Does He Play?
 
I'm kinda of confused as to what is the deal with Prucha.

He's a shifty, good skating snipper who can score goals.
It seems though in order to do well he needs a lot of ice time, top 6 time.

Where do you play him though, he's a RW and we have two RW's in Shanny and Jagr?

All season Prucha has been struggling, until he got top six time when he filled in for Shanny and seemd to shine.

Is it me or does Prucha have effectiveness only when given a lot of minutes, and if so, what does this do in terms of us this and next year?

Can Prucha play LW or C, like Straka or is he a RW only like Jagr?
Why is it some players can play all 3 foward slots but some aren't?

If this is the case, Prucha is a RW only who needs top 6 minutes, what do we do with him?
No keep Shanny, lose his leadership and overall better player?
Have a less effective players, let him wilt away on the 3rd or 4th line?
Or trade a farm raised goal scorer for maybe defense, but still lose a good skater?

It's really hard, I hate to see him struggle, but I hate to keep him when we have better players, Shanny, more complete for the top 6.

From where I see it this sounds like Prucha is a tough player because he needs time and minutes but for that role there are better options, yet still he's no scrub.

Are we better giving him and guys like Immonen, Callahan, top 6 and 3rd line roles, developing talent within and not letting another Savard or Knuble leave OR should we re sign Shanny and go after a Briere to boost 2nd line scoring, keep Avery, Cullen, and have maybe 1 spot left for our youth?

I don't know which direction to go, you can try and upgrade but does that stunt youth, or do you develope but maybe get stuck with 2/3 in between guys who aren't consistent scorers and waste Lundqvist?

MisterUnspoken 03-30-2007 02:05 AM

As much as I like Shanny I don't think we can resign him. Well we could, but we shouldn't. His age coupled with his contract means he should be a UFA we let go for Callahan and Prucha to play more.

Many will not agree, but the team has to evolve with younger/new players

WhipNash27 03-30-2007 08:32 AM

I agree. The team played well without him too. This is Jagr's team and it will be such for another two years. Shanny isn't really needed IMO as he takes away opportunities for young guys on the 2nd line. That said, I can see management trying to resign him.

SPG 03-30-2007 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken (Post 8699497)
As much as I like Shanny I don't think we can resign him. Well we could, but we shouldn't. His age coupled with his contract means he should be a UFA we let go for Callahan and Prucha to play more.

Many will not agree, but the team has to evolve with younger/new players

I love Callahan and Prucha, but they're no Shanahan. Letting Shanahan go with that logic in mind would be a mistake.

n_a_c 03-30-2007 08:57 AM

I'm torn on this topic. There are advantages to signing him, and advantages to not signing him. Of course, this is assuming he still wants to play. There is a definite possibility that at 39, and after a serious concussion, that he might decide now is time to hang them up.

I think his (and the Rangers) performance in the playoffs will help a lot toward making this decision.
If he is stellar in the playoffs and the Rangers do well, then it is hard not to resign him.
If he is stellar but the Rangers crash in round one, then it is a tough choice.
If he plays so-so or poorly, and is not a major impact, then I think we should move on.

Fletch 03-30-2007 09:05 AM

Shanny could serve a purpose...
 
and guys like Callahan, and hopefully Dubi, and other would likely only benefit. Having said that, I'd probably want to see Shanny in a reduced role next season. No PK minutes. No top PP minutes. Perhaps getting 15-16 minutes of ice time. He'll be 39 and the second half of the season's been quite rough on him. He can be helpful if a coach is willing to play him correctly.

As for Prucha...he can absolutely play with Jagr and Nylander. People became enamored with Hossa and his ability to go into the corner and concluded that's what Jagr needed - and then you enter in Isbister, who seemed to work OK but the results were quite barren. And what's forgotten is how productive Prucha was with Jagr when he got the chance to play with him. Unfortunately, though, playing him 20 minutes per game over an 82 game season isn't going to work. Playing him down the stretch and perhaps in the playoffs...that's an option, but for next season, I'm not sure it is.

WhipNash27 03-30-2007 09:10 AM

Prucha needs to put on at least 10 pounds in the offseason otherwise he's never going to be see the first line for more than a game.

94now 03-30-2007 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyF27 (Post 8700675)
Prucha needs to put on at least 10 pounds in the offseason otherwise he's never going to be see the first line for more than a game.

Good point.

94now 03-30-2007 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slappingstinger (Post 8699365)
I'm kinda of confused as to what is the deal with Prucha.

He's a shifty, good skating snipper who can score goals.
It seems though in order to do well he needs a lot of ice time, top 6 time.

Where do you play him though, he's a RW and we have two RW's in Shanny and Jagr?

Prucha is LW. So, I'm sorry, but all your reasoning here is a flaw...

Regardless of his shortcomings, Petr is part of the future of this club. He is a fine player having softemore issues that were aggravated by Shanahan taking over his spot on the 2nd line. I predicted that effect from Shanny signing on Prucha (as well as the Shanny eventual injury). I wish I was wrong.

WhipNash27 03-30-2007 09:47 AM

Well Shanny's injury was more of a fluke than due to wearing down. Had that happened in game 5 it would have been the same result.

Shadowrunner 03-30-2007 09:57 AM

I fail how to comprehend how a coach/GM does not seem to know what to do with a player who works and skates hard, is tough, resilient, and scored 30+ goals in his first NHL season playing while not playing on the 1st line.

Am I the only one who is baffled by this?

Captain11 03-30-2007 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 8700649)
As for Prucha...he can absolutely play with Jagr and Nylander. People became enamored with Hossa and his ability to go into the corner and concluded that's what Jagr needed - and then you enter in Isbister, who seemed to work OK but the results were quite barren. And what's forgotten is how productive Prucha was with Jagr when he got the chance to play with him. Unfortunately, though, playing him 20 minutes per game over an 82 game season isn't going to work. Playing him down the stretch and perhaps in the playoffs...that's an option, but for next season, I'm not sure it is.

I agree that Prucha should recieve top 6 line minutes, but not on a line with jagr and nylander. IMO, Straka shouldnt even play with the top line. Since straka went down, we've played well as a team and the top line has been amazing. Whether it was with isbister, avery, or hossa, jagr and that line has produced. I think Jagr and nylander need to play with a big body. Putting Straka back there, or Prucha, will only mean the return of those constant break-out circles we saw against montreal.

I love Straka and Prucha, but neither of them should be on the 1st line...and if the avery-cally-shanny line wasnt so good, id have avery and straka switch. Unfortunatly, if we needed to cut someone to bring have a kid like Cally play for next year, I'd probably pick Straka. He's getting older, injury prone, and with as good of a year he has had, I think he's setting himself up for a dissapointing season next year.

GO RANGERS

paintballruler* 03-30-2007 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain11 (Post 8701137)
I agree that Prucha should recieve top 6 line minutes, but not on a line with jagr and nylander. IMO, Straka shouldnt even play with the top line. Since straka went down, we've played well as a team and the top line has been amazing. Whether it was with isbister, avery, or hossa, jagr and that line has produced. I think Jagr and nylander need to play with a big body. Putting Straka back there, or Prucha, will only mean the return of those constant break-out circles we saw against montreal.

I love Straka and Prucha, but neither of them should be on the 1st line...and if the avery-cally-shanny line wasnt so good, id have avery and straka switch. Unfortunatly, if we needed to cut someone to bring have a kid like Cally play for next year, I'd probably pick Straka. He's getting older, injury prone, and with as good of a year he has had, I think he's setting himself up for a dissapointing season next year.

GO RANGERS


straka is here for a another year

94now 03-30-2007 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowrunner (Post 8701029)
I fail how to comprehend how a coach/GM does not seem to know what to do with a player who works and skates hard, is tough, resilient, and scored 30+ goals in his first NHL season playing while not playing on the 1st line.

Am I the only one who is baffled by this?

Unlike, say, tennis or even baseball the hockey is a pure team sport. The individual effort as well as talent count, but could be negated by other factors such as chemistry with team mates, coach assignments and many others including the particular hockey culture the player adheres to. Prucha doesn't have a killer shot. His strength is in agility and ability to pick the rebound or outskate the defender. For him to be successful he has to play with power forward linemates that are good shooters, so can play in front of the net. This season Jagr's shot was not existent due to shoulder problem and with Nylander never being a shooter, there was no sense to use Petr on 1st line. Once the shots form the point have been taken care of, Prucha was no longer effective 5-on-5. He still was useful on PP where blocking shot from the point is not as easy due to puck movement, but his production was not what it was. On the second line his tenure with Shanahan was just short of disastrous. Shanny was placed on RW where he could not shoot from being right handed and therefore was driving to the net. That was something that Prucha would do normally. Cullen should be a shooter for that line, but we all know how disappointing Cullen was. On the 3rd and 4th lines Petr was just useless as far as offense is concerned for the obvious reasons. He was helpful playing defense, but it has never been his strength.
Bottom line: If Shanahan stayed in Detroit and Prucha-Ruccin- Sykora was our 2nd line Prucha would score over 20 goals this season and the Rangers could be in better position at the end of the season.

KreiMeARiver* 03-30-2007 11:41 AM

Shanny is not only still a great player, but a leader and teacher to the kids. Not signing him would be beyond stupid.

You don't cater to a mediocre, overrated player like Prucha when you have Brendan Shanahan on your team. Prucha will have any leadership qualities. He's too small, and not as skilled as everyone makes him out to be.

You sign Shanny, flat out.

Taz 03-30-2007 01:38 PM

I like Prucha on the third line, with lots of PP time, he can also fill in on the top two lines no problem

WhipNash27 03-30-2007 01:39 PM

According to Weinman he plays Left Wing with Cullen and Shanny ;).

94now 03-30-2007 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hightide85 (Post 8702064)
Shanny is not only still a great player, but a leader and teacher to the kids. Not signing him would be beyond stupid.

You don't cater to a mediocre, overrated player like Prucha when you have Brendan Shanahan on your team. Prucha will have any leadership qualities. He's too small, and not as skilled as everyone makes him out to be.

You sign Shanny, flat out.

No one tried to put Prucha above Shanahan who is true HOF. Compare to Shanahan who is a complete package Prucha simply doesn't measure up. However addition of Shanahan caused subtraction of Prucha. IMO it was bad for the team overall.
As far as "leadership" is concerned I find that term being so vastly misused that it become a pure BS at times.
So called "leaders" are very ambitious people. Ambition as a character quality is not always helpful (Messier's first stint here it was good for the team, last - it was bad). Plus, with Jarg present we ended up having two "leaders" after Shanny was signed . That doesn't help at all.
In order to lead the ambitious person should also have top notch abilities. In business it is a deep knowledge. In sport it is being on top of the game. Therefore the injured or just an old slow player cannot be effective leader no matter what he was before. Jagr couldn't lead because of injury. That opened the door for Shanny. He lost his leadership after the injury of his own. All of that is pretty normal. Therefore it is very important for the coach to maintain his leadership. Renney is very knowledgeable. I'm not sure if he is quite as ambitious.

BobMarleyNYR 03-30-2007 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94now (Post 8700873)
Prucha is LW. So, I'm sorry, but all your reasoning here is a flaw...

Regardless of his shortcomings, Petr is part of the future of this club. He is a fine player having softemore issues that were aggravated by Shanahan taking over his spot on the 2nd line. I predicted that effect from Shanny signing on Prucha (as well as the Shanny eventual injury). I wish I was wrong.

He is a left-winger... with SOPHOMORE issues.

WhipNash27 03-30-2007 03:44 PM

I'll be happy if Prucha nets one more this year. A good solid 20 goals is not too much of a letdown for him considering the circumstances.

MisterUnspoken 03-30-2007 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 8700649)
and guys like Callahan, and hopefully Dubi, and other would likely only benefit. Having said that, I'd probably want to see Shanny in a reduced role next season. No PK minutes. No top PP minutes. Perhaps getting 15-16 minutes of ice time. He'll be 39 and the second half of the season's been quite rough on him. He can be helpful if a coach is willing to play him correctly.

As for Prucha...he can absolutely play with Jagr and Nylander. People became enamored with Hossa and his ability to go into the corner and concluded that's what Jagr needed - and then you enter in Isbister, who seemed to work OK but the results were quite barren. And what's forgotten is how productive Prucha was with Jagr when he got the chance to play with him. Unfortunately, though, playing him 20 minutes per game over an 82 game season isn't going to work. Playing him down the stretch and perhaps in the playoffs...that's an option, but for next season, I'm not sure it is.

Did you just compare Brad Isbister with Marcel Hossa? Hossa is a vastly superior player and I am certain that when he comes back that first line will again put up good numbers.

If we resign Shanny though I agree he should be playing 13-15 minutes a night and some PP time. That's about it. No PK at all.

DM23BK30 03-30-2007 10:37 PM

Shanahan...just 6 goals in his last 33 games. Like most have said, I love the guy's enthusiasm and his intangibles, but this team proved they can win without him and I think his performance in the playoffs will be the barometer the Rangers use as far as resigning him or not. The love affair with the fans is understandable, and he plays with his heart on his sleeve, but I hope we don't have another repeat of the Messier debacle where an aging star is eating up minutes over prospects and young NHL-ready talent based on reputation rather than performance

Our farm system is extremely deep at wing. It's time to give these guys an opportunity on the second and third lines, or else Philly and Pittsburgh will be running away with the division for the next five or six years.

slim399 03-31-2007 02:49 AM

prucha works his arse off. you have to love him because no matter what he is giving 100% on the ice. Which is nice to see in post ufa ranger land. you do have to be nervous for him because once every three games he takes a check that you get scared about.

but in the end i see him as a steady right or left wing on our third line... but i see him making his career on the first line power play. look at that game winning goal he scored vs. the islanders... the guy knows where to be at the right time.

i have no problem with a 3rd line/ top power play winger scoring 30 goals a season.

bubba5 03-31-2007 07:48 AM

I like prucha, but he needs to relax a little with the puck, seems like he has been fumbling around with it to much.

True Blue 03-31-2007 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch (Post 8700649)
and guys like Callahan, and hopefully Dubi, and other would likely only benefit. Having said that, I'd probably want to see Shanny in a reduced role next season. No PK minutes. No top PP minutes. Perhaps getting 15-16 minutes of ice time. He'll be 39 and the second half of the season's been quite rough on him. He can be helpful if a coach is willing to play him correctly.

As for Prucha...he can absolutely play with Jagr and Nylander. People became enamored with Hossa and his ability to go into the corner and concluded that's what Jagr needed - and then you enter in Isbister, who seemed to work OK but the results were quite barren. And what's forgotten is how productive Prucha was with Jagr when he got the chance to play with him. Unfortunately, though, playing him 20 minutes per game over an 82 game season isn't going to work. Playing him down the stretch and perhaps in the playoffs...that's an option, but for next season, I'm not sure it is.

Great points, Fletch. THe thing is that reducing Shanny's ice time to the levels you prescribe would put him on the levels where he played his last several seasons in Detroit. Much of Shanny's decline can be laid at Renney's feet for simply running an older vet into the ground. Shanny on the PK only served to ratched his ice time over the 20 minute mark for a good amount of time. By not sending him out on the PK, and keeping his icetime in the 15-16 minute range, the Rangers have a great lockerroom presence that would also net 30 goals a year.

And I also agree on Prucha. It is amazing how some have fallen in love with Hossa, to the point of pushing him up the ranks ahead of a kid who netted 50 goals in his first two seasons (more than Parise or Svatos) years, while playing less than 13 minutes a game, mostly on the bottom-2 lines.


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