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McFly 12-16-2003 12:14 PM

Pressure now on Fergie
 
After the big Comrie to Philly trade, I think there is added pressure on JFJ to make a deal for that defenseman, or whoever he sees fit to improve this team.

It is now obvious that Philly is better with Comrie and the Leafs will have to upgrade if they want to beat this team in the playoffs.

I'm not saying I don't believe in the Leafs or anything. But we all know (regardless of this winning streak) that if we want the Cup, we will have to get better.

Thoughts?

Mess 12-16-2003 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McFly_GoLeafsGo
After the big Comrie to Philly trade, I think there is added pressure on JFJ to make a deal for that defenseman, or whoever he sees fit to improve this team.

It is now obvious that Philly is better with Comrie and the Leafs will have to upgrade if they want to beat this team in the playoffs.

I'm not saying I don't believe in the Leafs or anything. But we all know (regardless of this winning streak) that if we want the Cup, we will have to get better.

Thoughts?

They are very strong down the middle already ...With Roenick, Primeau, Handzus and with top prospects Jeff Carter and Mike Richards on the way ..seems like a strange move...

Also from the Edmonton side ...Woywitka is a Alberta boy.. but rather than the 1st why not get one of the young centers from Philly I mentioned...also Edmonton is hurting up front and particularly at center so to trade Comrie away and defensive depth is a bit strange unless now they trade say Brewer for Forward Help... Hey how about Antropov and one of our young dman prospects like Kondratiev for Brewer???

The Messenger....

King of Kelvington 12-16-2003 12:34 PM

pressure will always be on fergie, what philly does dosent alter that much imo. Comrie has upside but isnt a 'big name' gamer ala joe sakic or rob blake...maybe someday but not this year, especially after missing the first 30 games...minimal impact, more of a distraction than anything else.

TO has needed a stud D for years and this trade wont make this process go any faster...

Mess 12-16-2003 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McFly_GoLeafsGo
After the big Comrie to Philly trade, I think there is added pressure on JFJ to make a deal for that defenseman, or whoever he sees fit to improve this team.

It is now obvious that Philly is better with Comrie and the Leafs will have to upgrade if they want to beat this team in the playoffs.

I'm not saying I don't believe in the Leafs or anything. But we all know (regardless of this winning streak) that if we want the Cup, we will have to get better.

Thoughts?

ASK yourself this..

Would you trade Colaiacovo , a 1st and 3rd for Comrie???

I WOULD NOT....

King of Kelvington 12-16-2003 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
ASK yourself this..

Would you trade Colaiacovo , a 1st and 3rd for Comrie???

I WOULD NOT....

i would, the first will be late most likely, the third is a crap shoot and cocacola is unproven in the NHL...Comrie is, easy deal IMO.

McFly 12-16-2003 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
ASK yourself this..

Would you trade Colaiacovo , a 1st and 3rd for Comrie???

I WOULD NOT....

Uh NO. I don't rate Comrie very high.

But at what point in my post did I suggest the Leafs missed the boat or should've even made a pitch for Comrie?

Mess 12-16-2003 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McFly_GoLeafsGo
Uh NO. I don't rate Comrie very high.

But at what point in my post did I suggest the Leafs missed the boat or should've even made a pitch for Comrie?


No where I agree...but you said it puts pressure on Fergy..

If you don't rate him high and if you wouldn't make a trade of equal value...

Then why the pressure on Fergy.????.

You make it sound that Fergy has to do something now to counter balance this move...

Its all about the Playoffs and Comrie will have his work cut out for him then ...

Savage 12-16-2003 01:03 PM

I must be the only one that thinks this is a horrible move by the Flyers. Granted from a value stand point they got the better of the deal but you also have to look at things such as how a Comrie and Hitchcock would get along and if the past means anything I would say not well at all.

There's also the fact as mentioned that they're incredably deep down the middle which means diminished ice time for Comrie or one of the other centers which could lead to some ego trouble. They could ask Comrie to move to the Wing but I see a player like Comrie with his skill set and size have some serious trouble playing either Wing.

In the end I truly see Comrie and Hitch knocking heads around 25 games into his Philly career and him leaving after a full season.

If he thought the pressures of Edmonton were bad god help him if he doesn't perform in Philly.

McFly 12-16-2003 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
No where I agree...but you said it puts pressure on Fergy..

If you don't rate him high and if you wouldn't make a trade of equal value...

Then why the pressure on Fergy.????.

You make it sound that Fergy has to do something now to counter balance this move...

Its all about the Playoffs and Comrie will have his work cut out for him then ...

Yes I don't rate him high. In his prime, he may be an 80 point producer but not a great physical presense. But what he does for Philadelphia is upgrade their offensive depth. He helps the transition game and gives them a fast, playmaking centre. The reason I don't rate him high is because I don't know what kind of player he can be in a tight checking, hard hitting playoff series. But he may just surprise people like me and be a Doug Gilmour type of performer. Comrie has not had much of a chance to show how he can play in the big playoff games. So yes he will help Philly's attack and give them more weapons up front. Just think how he compares to a Handzus or Primeau. He can create more offense but won't be nearly as physical.

Because of what he will bring to the Flyers, he makes them better. Philly was a slightly better team than Toronto to begin with. So if the Leafs want to compete with them in the playoffs, they will need to upgrade the defense. We all know that. If not, the Flyers can wear down the Leafs D with a heavy forecheck (like they did in 2003), then pass them by with a quick offense.

wasting time 12-16-2003 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
ASK yourself this..

Would you trade Colaiacovo , a 1st and 3rd for Comrie???

I WOULD NOT....

I am with you. I am so with you.

Comrie is not a world beater. Very similar price was paid for Nolan.

wasting time 12-16-2003 01:16 PM

he is actually kind of a suck. He should fit in well with the Flyers.

DutchLeafsfan 12-16-2003 01:44 PM

Surprised by the move...

Comrie is a nice young player, but the Flyers already had plenty of forward depth, esp. at C. I'd say if they'd need anything it would be a true superstar player, which they appear to be lacking now.

They paid a pretty steep price too, although they were dealing out of a position of strength with their defensive prospects. However I personally wouldn't have dealt Carlo, 1st and 3rd for Comrie. Especially ocnsidering it wouldn't fill a need (and didn't with the Flyers either)

sluggo* 12-16-2003 03:32 PM

I think this move will "light a fire" under Ferguson. The Leafs and the Flyers KNOW that one of them will have to beat the other in the playoffs, and this move does improve the Flyers offense (probably their goal tending since I think one of their centers will now be moved for a goalie). Its the samething that happened last year, the Leafs got Nolan and the Flyers countered by getting Amonte. Before the deadline Ferguson will counter with a D-man and maybe another foward to help them get past the Flyers in the playoffs.

Mess 12-16-2003 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sluggo
I think this move will "light a fire" under Ferguson. The Leafs and the Flyers KNOW that one of them will have to beat the other in the playoffs, and this move does improve the Flyers offense (probably their goal tending since I think one of their centers will now be moved for a goalie). Its the samething that happened last year, the Leafs got Nolan and the Flyers countered by getting Amonte. Before the deadline Ferguson will counter with a D-man and maybe another foward to help them get past the Flyers in the playoffs.

Toronto is looking for a Dman now and that doesn't change just because Philly is loading up on centers...Fergy qoould hope to make that move regardless of what other Eastern teams do..

sluggo* 12-16-2003 04:21 PM

Toronto is looking for a Dman now and that doesn't change just because Philly is loading up on centers...Fergy qoould hope to make that move regardless of what other Eastern teams do

But he hasn't, and part of the reason why is because his team is doing so well right now. He may have known he should get a D-man, but the Flyers adding Comrie makes it that much more important, and not something that they can do without, as some thought it was. When two teams know they will most likely have to play each other in the playoffs, and one starts to "arm up" the other follows.

And they do need more then just a D-man. A lot of the games in the Leafs 11 game point streak have been one goal games, and the Leafs have been out-shot a lot. That means Belfour is standing on his head to get the wins. And how many of their fowards have already had injury problems - Mogilny, Antropov, Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts? (that all of them?). Getting another foward who can score when others get hurt is a need this team has as well. They don't have to get a Naslund or anything, but they need something. Hell even tonight both goals came from Sundin and Roberts, if they lose a couple of those guys in the playoffs they'll be in trouble.

ATG 12-16-2003 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sluggo
Toronto is looking for a Dman now and that doesn't change just because Philly is loading up on centers...Fergy qoould hope to make that move regardless of what other Eastern teams do

But he hasn't, and part of the reason why is because his team is doing so well right now. He may have known he should get a D-man, but the Flyers adding Comrie makes it that much more important, and not something that they can do without, as some thought it was. When two teams know they will most likely have to play each other in the playoffs, and one starts to "arm up" the other follows.

And they do need more then just a D-man. A lot of the games in the Leafs 11 game point streak have been one goal games, and the Leafs have been out-shot a lot. That means Belfour is standing on his head to get the wins. And how many of their fowards have already had injury problems - Mogilny, Antropov, Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts? (that all of them?). Getting another foward who can score when others get hurt is a need this team has as well. They don't have to get a Naslund or anything, but they need something. Hell even tonight both goals came from Sundin and Roberts, if they lose a couple of those guys in the playoffs they'll be in trouble.

Comrie is a small guy playing center against some giants in they east he may be in some trouble.The west relies more on speed and skill while the east is more of a grind and skill conference, comrie is soft he's dead

Mess 12-16-2003 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sluggo
Toronto is looking for a Dman now and that doesn't change just because Philly is loading up on centers...Fergy qoould hope to make that move regardless of what other Eastern teams do

But he hasn't, and part of the reason why is because his team is doing so well right now. He may have known he should get a D-man, but the Flyers adding Comrie makes it that much more important, and not something that they can do without, as some thought it was. When two teams know they will most likely have to play each other in the playoffs, and one starts to "arm up" the other follows..

I think there are a lot of teams in the East like the Stanley Cup Champ NJ Devils and Ottawa and others that are not yet ready to conceed a Philly Toronto Conference Final just yet...

Stephen 12-16-2003 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage
I must be the only one that thinks this is a horrible move by the Flyers. Granted from a value stand point they got the better of the deal but you also have to look at things such as how a Comrie and Hitchcock would get along and if the past means anything I would say not well at all.

There's also the fact as mentioned that they're incredably deep down the middle which means diminished ice time for Comrie or one of the other centers which could lead to some ego trouble. They could ask Comrie to move to the Wing but I see a player like Comrie with his skill set and size have some serious trouble playing either Wing.

In the end I truly see Comrie and Hitch knocking heads around 25 games into his Philly career and him leaving after a full season.

If he thought the pressures of Edmonton were bad god help him if he doesn't perform in Philly.

I agree, the trade might not be as good for Philly as it looks on paper. Mike Comrie has been sitting out a very long time. Very seldom do you have a guy sit out for a long time and be effective right away. That said, they will need to work him into the lineup and it will take time away from their other centermen. They might even have to move someone to the wing. These considerations sort of make the Comrie acqusition a bit of a disturbance. Also, they could probably have used those assets to get a Gonchar, which would have been a more useful player.

Mess 12-16-2003 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen
I agree, the trade might not be as good for Philly as it looks on paper. Mike Comrie has been sitting out a very long time. Very seldom do you have a guy sit out for a long time and be effective right away. That said, they will need to work him into the lineup and it will take time away from their other centermen. They might even have to move someone to the wing. These considerations sort of make the Comrie acqusition a bit of a disturbance. Also, they could probably have used those assets to get a Gonchar, which would have been a more useful player.

On that same Gonchar Theme...If Toronto had giving up Carlo and a 1st and 3rd to get Comrie I would have been disappointed but if those kinds of assets land Leafs a Number 1 Dman like Gonchar than it would be easier to swallow...

Philly always seem to make these kind of trades ....Always adding forwards and never addressing the Defense (exclude draft pick..ie Pitkanen) and goaltending when they make trades and I would argue that you should build from the goalie out...

sluggo* 12-16-2003 04:48 PM

I think there are a lot of teams in the East like the Stanley Cup Champ NJ Devils and Ottawa and others that are not yet ready to conceed a Philly Toronto Conference Final just yet

First I never said that would be the Conference Final, just that they will probably face each otherin the playoffs again. And second, just because other teams aren't ready to conceed that as the final you don't bother to prepare for it? Rather they don't and then ***** when they get beat?This year is IT for the Leafs, this is the year for this team to win, and the Flyers are going to be a huge challange for them if they are going to win, they have to "keep up" with them. Look at the Flyers last year - the Leafs went out and got Nolan (larger for the Flyers series) and what did the Flyers do? They went out and got Amonte to counter him. This deal SHOULD light a fire under Ferguson and get his ass in gear to improve this Leafs team to the point it needs to be at to compete with the FLyers and win the cup. When your team is second in the league its easy to say "well I really do need a D-man, but we're winning so unless a great deal comes along I'm not really going to jump on it" (which is what seems to be happening), but when the first place team goes out and improves itself that should tell you that you better get off your ass and improve yourself.

sluggo* 12-16-2003 04:51 PM

"On that same Gonchar Theme...If Toronto had giving up Carlo and a 1st and 3rd to get Comrie I would have been disappointed"

I would say Stajan, Steen, Colaiacovo and Tellqvist are the Leafs untouchables. The Gonchar rumors had a package like - Berg, Kondratiev and a pick going for Gonchar.

Philly always seem to make these kind of trades ....Always adding forwards and never addressing the Defense (exclude draft pick..ie Pitkanen) and goaltending when they make trades and I would argue that you should build from the goalie out...

And right now they have a tone of centers, its VERY possible one of them will be traded for a goalie, and that could have been the plan all along. The Thrashers GM said on Leafs Lunch he was interested in Comrie, I wouldn't be susprised at all if he gets moved to them for Defoe.

Mess 12-16-2003 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sluggo
I think there are a lot of teams in the East like the Stanley Cup Champ NJ Devils and Ottawa and others that are not yet ready to conceed a Philly Toronto Conference Final just yet

First I never said that would be the Conference Final, just that they will probably face each otherin the playoffs again. And second, just because other teams aren't ready to conceed that as the final you don't bother to prepare for it? Rather they don't and then ***** when they get beat?This year is IT for the Leafs, this is the year for this team to win, and the Flyers are going to be a huge challange for them if they are going to win, they have to "keep up" with them. Look at the Flyers last year - the Leafs went out and got Nolan (larger for the Flyers series) and what did the Flyers do? They went out and got Amonte to counter him. This deal SHOULD light a fire under Ferguson and get his ass in gear to improve this Leafs team to the point it needs to be at to compete with the FLyers and win the cup. When your team is second in the league its easy to say "well I really do need a D-man, but we're winning so unless a great deal comes along I'm not really going to jump on it" (which is what seems to be happening), but when the first place team goes out and improves itself that should tell you that you better get off your ass and improve yourself.

You would have to agree that the only way you can guarantee a Leaf Philly series is if they are the last 2 remaining...because as it stands right now and I realize things could change ...but you made that bold statement today..and Philly and Toronto are now offically tied with Leafs win tonight for 1st in the conference..

So either you are thinking one team will have a total colapse or you are making a pretty bold prediction that you can not guarantee..

A betting person would actually say that a matchup is less likely to happen...

sluggo* 12-16-2003 05:00 PM

You would have to agree that the only way you can guarantee a Leaf Philly series is if they are the last 2 remaining...because as it stands right now and I realize things could change

"Things could change" - nuff said, they could play in the first round again. And like I said, do you bother not to prepare for the Flyers because you might not face them? Its not liek strengthing the team for the FLyers will also help against the Devils or the Senators.


A betting person would actually say that a matchup is less likely to happen..

ya, better no prepare at all for the Flyers, after all they might not face them, who cares that they out played the Leafs last year in the playoffs and in the season so far. Who cares they are the top team in the NHL, who cares that if the Leafs are going to go to the finals they will probably have to beat them or a team good enough to beat them, and who cares they just improved their team. Plus its not like anyone they add with the Flyers in mind will improve the team when they play the Devils or the Senators etc.....None of that creates a bigger need for the Leafs to improve themselves, not at all.

Mess 12-16-2003 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sluggo
You would have to agree that the only way you can guarantee a Leaf Philly series is if they are the last 2 remaining...because as it stands right now and I realize things could change

"Things could change" - nuff said, they could play in the first round again. And like I said, do you bother not to prepare for the Flyers because you might not face them? Its not liek strengthing the team for the FLyers will also help against the Devils or the Senators.

Yes that was my point exactly ... Now you are taking my side... You don't simply plan on playing one team ....and you do not react just because someone in the East makes a trade... Would you have taken the same stance if NJ would have acquired Comrie or another player for that matter... Because a Leaf NJ series is just as Mathimatically possible as a Philly one, Half way through the Season..

Mike1 12-16-2003 05:10 PM

The pressure has been on JFJ to improve the defence since the start of the season. I don't see how it changes anything now with the Comrie deal.


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