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JerseyRangers 04-18-2007 10:48 PM

Rangers Youth
 
One thing I'd like to comment on is the great job that our minor league system has been doing preparing some of these young guys. In watching both Cally and Girardi the one thing I gotta say is that for such young players they read and see the game at a very mature level. For instance, Cally and his ability to forecheck. He realizes that he's not going to run over Exelby or Sutton so instead he used body positioning to establish a superior position on the forecheck and win the puck. This isn't like Rico Fata who sould storm in and lose most of his puck battles because of size. Cally is smart enough to know that he won't outmuscle these guys so he depends more on establishing a superior position along the boards in order to come out with the puck. Same in his puck support and his defensive assignments -- the kids got great talent but at the same time its obvious that he's been really well coached.

Girardi is the same way. He always seems to be in the right place. In the last couple of months I've seen veterans like Malik and Rachunek lose their heads under pressure while a guy like Girardi was keeping his. Its not a coincidence -- he's obviously been very well coached and it shows! Again this goes back to the staff in Hartford.

This organization is starting to work more and more like the Devils. Guys are coming in and they can play within the system because of what they've been taught in Hartford. I remember when we had our team in Binghampton. Guys would come outta there and look completely outta place. The Rangers organization has improved to the level where we can confidently bring up kids from the minors and know that they will be ready to step in and not look outta place. Thats somethign that even 3 years ago you couldn't say for this organization. Alot of credit has to go to Sather for recognizing the flaws in our system and turning one of the glaring weaknesses in our organization into one of its strengths! :handclap: :handclap:

jgrangers2 04-18-2007 11:09 PM

The future looks bright on Broadway. Sather has done a great job of mixing solid veterans with a great group of youngsters while we still have more on the way from Hartford. He should continue to follow this plan, it's worked well so far.

tjs252 04-18-2007 11:14 PM

Callahan, Girardi...Bourret and Staal coming.

Cupboard's not bare anymore!

stuart 04-19-2007 12:03 AM

They have more talent coming then that
 
the problem for next years team is where to find spots for all this talent.

Hollwegg, orty, betts(probably not), and Orr will have a tough time making next years team.

The rangers should play like Buffalo next year play 4 lines all the time with the unspectacualr puck moving D.

They may have the talent to do this..

I am not getting carried away, they have alot of good young players; don't forget Dubinsky, Dupont, Korpikorski, and more..........

Pizza 04-19-2007 01:03 AM

It's mostly about veterans right now even though the younger Rangers are looking great. But the future; as I've been saying for a long time, is looking very bright indeed.

A key will be how the guys down in Hartford (that are ready now) can be integrated into the Rangers line up over the next year or so. Others will need to be phased out and that could get a little tricky, but it's a great problem to have. I'm loving it.

RangerFan_48 04-19-2007 11:52 AM

Hollwegg, orty, betts(probably not), and Orr will have a tough time making next years team.

Why do you say that? Betts I can see but Hollwegg and Ortmeyer?

Lion Hound 04-19-2007 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart (Post 8988678)
the problem for next years team is where to find spots for all this talent.

Hollwegg, orty, betts(probably not), and Orr will have a tough time making next years team.

The rangers should play like Buffalo next year play 4 lines all the time with the unspectacualr puck moving D.

They may have the talent to do this..

I am not getting carried away, they have alot of good young players; don't forget Dubinsky, Dupont, Korpikorski, and more..........


Betts is signed through 09 I believe, but Otry is a UFA, and Hollweg is an RFA. I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if Ortmeyer gets decent offers to play else where. For Hollweg, I know Renney really like Hollweg, but I agree that it will be hard for him to make this club next season.

Noonan25 04-19-2007 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjs252 (Post 8987910)
Callahan, Girardi...Bourret and Staal coming.

Cupboard's not bare anymore!

Sangunetti, Dawes, and Montoya as well

mnorman1 04-19-2007 12:45 PM

The future may be exciting, but I think this is the year to do it. The chemistry is great, and it takes a LOT just to get back to the second round. I doubt Avery will be here beyond next winter. Win now, the future is still just the future.

DutchShamrock 04-19-2007 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerFan_48 (Post 8992726)
Hollwegg, orty, betts(probably not), and Orr will have a tough time making next years team.

Why do you say that? Betts I can see but Hollwegg and Ortmeyer?

Because we have guys in the minors that do what they do but also score more. Ortmeyer probably has a better handle on his spot but Orr and Hollweg unfortunately may have their days numbered. Dawes could push Ortmeyer to the 4th and one of those two out of the lineup all together. Dubinsky and Helmenien might force others out as well. It'll be interesting.

Larry Melnyk 04-19-2007 02:06 PM

Old discussion, but from the get go, I loved the way the Rangers handled the kids this year and giving almost all of them the time to develop in Hartford which has allowed some to contribute big time in NY while a few others could also be doing the same in their spot..

The pipe line is flowing...Not only do you have Callahan up and ready, but Dawes and Immo (though not my favorite) are ready to be playing full time in the NHL,,and, it's only a matter of time---hell, it might be even now or the start of the season, that guys like DUbinsky, Bouret and Byers are also ready full time...That's SIX forwards..Obviously all won't start the season in NY no matter how ready, but what a problem to have...The bet here is that one or two of them is dealt in a package for either a top pick or a top young player..ANd 2 or 3 make it up at the start...

Hard to say these things now, but I think Hollweg's Ranger career ended with his baording penalty in Boston and will be replaced by a more talented player...Same might be true with one of Orts or Betts...

And then you have the defense...we already have a slew of kids playing..And then you add in baranka (if he could ever stay healthy) or Liffiton (not both) plus, most probably, Marc Staal..

Bottom line is that the ranger organization is the strongest and deepest it's been in ages...Not only in Hartford, but also the kids coming out of Juniors (Dupont, Staal, Pyatt, Sauer, Sanguinetti) and COllege..The one thing missing is a top line young player, but there sure are quite a bit of NHLers...also quite a bit of assets and trade chips that will allow Sather/Maloney to be very flexible whiel trying to improve the team/organization via trade....What a change from 4-5 years ago!

The Thomas J.* 04-19-2007 02:21 PM

Lets not forget this team was kind of lost without Ortmeyer until he came back, Ortmeyer & Hollweg are the heart & sould of this team to a certain extent, it would be damaging to let them both go, but if I had to pick one I would keep ortmeyer.

Speedtrials 04-19-2007 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Thomas J. (Post 8994459)
Lets not forget this team was kind of lost without Ortmeyer until he came back, Ortmeyer & Hollweg are the heart & sould of this team to a certain extent, it would be damaging to let them both go, but if I had to pick one I would keep ortmeyer.

I agree. Ortmeyer, even though doesn't score, seems to mean a lot to the team, plus he is such a great penalty killer, I think it would be a mistake to get rid of him. Hollweg is a nice piece to have on your team, and has been a great Ranger, but I think in the future we will have players who can provide the same energy, and bring more to the table. I wouldn't be suprised if he is gone within the next season or two, just to make some room for the rookies.

Blueshirt Special 04-19-2007 02:55 PM

Do not undervalue Betts. His work taking face-offs and killing penalties has been extremely important in this run to make the playoffs. Anyone have his stats against guys like Crosby for face-off wins?

nyr2k2 04-19-2007 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrappedinNJ (Post 8994912)
Do not undervalue Betts. His work taking face-offs and killing penalties has been extremely important in this run to make the playoffs. Anyone have his stats against guys like Crosby for face-off wins?

Agreed. It's a tough situation because all of Betts, Orts and Holly play important roles on the team. Do you take a gamble and let one or more go and fill the spot with a rookie? Of all of them, I'd be most likely to let Ortsy walk, which breaks my heart so say (I have two of his sweaters).

MidnightRanger 04-19-2007 03:20 PM

hollweg is the weakest link in that trifecta. i see byers as his immediate replacement. but orts and betts can kill penalties and you need that. hossa and cullen as well. we should not mess with something good.

mattyd99 04-19-2007 03:23 PM

I think we should add Pock to this discussion. He played outstanding the last 2 games and even threw in 3 assists. He might not play the rest of the playoffs, but I have a feeling he's not going away.

Pizza 04-19-2007 04:13 PM

I'd be very surprised if Betts were not our starting 4th line center in October. I think it will be extremely hard for someone to move him aside.

jas 04-19-2007 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk (Post 8994262)
Old discussion, but from the get go, I loved the way the Rangers handled the kids this year and giving almost all of them the time to develop in Hartford which has allowed some to contribute big time in NY while a few others could also be doing the same in their spot..

The pipe line is flowing...Not only do you have Callahan up and ready, but Dawes and Immo (though not my favorite) are ready to be playing full time in the NHL,,and, it's only a matter of time---hell, it might be even now or the start of the season, that guys like DUbinsky, Bouret and Byers are also ready full time...That's SIX forwards..Obviously all won't start the season in NY no matter how ready, but what a problem to have...The bet here is that one or two of them is dealt in a package for either a top pick or a top young player..ANd 2 or 3 make it up at the start...

Hard to say these things now, but I think Hollweg's Ranger career ended with his baording penalty in Boston and will be replaced by a more talented player...Same might be true with one of Orts or Betts...

And then you have the defense...we already have a slew of kids playing..And then you add in baranka (if he could ever stay healthy) or Liffiton (not both) plus, most probably, Marc Staal..

Bottom line is that the ranger organization is the strongest and deepest it's been in ages...Not only in Hartford, but also the kids coming out of Juniors (Dupont, Staal, Pyatt, Sauer, Sanguinetti) and COllege..The one thing missing is a top line young player, but there sure are quite a bit of NHLers...also quite a bit of assets and trade chips that will allow Sather/Maloney to be very flexible whiel trying to improve the team/organization via trade....What a change from 4-5 years ago!

Damn, your good...why it sounds like the exact thing I've saying...oh, yeah, it is, since it's been an area of agreement between you and I all year. BTW, congrats...we've been at this both here and at RFC for almost a decade now, and, let's face it, as Ranger fans, we deserve this. Sure beats the hell out of the discussions of St. Manny, Nedved v. Fleury and so many other pointless arguments in too many futile seasons.

jas 04-19-2007 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pizza (Post 8995835)
I'd be very surprised if Betts were not our starting 4th line center in October. I think it will be extremely hard for someone to move him aside.


If you are watching closely, Betts does so many little things that help the Rangers win. He's very good defensively, reading passing lanes, winning faceoffs and getting back defensively. He earned Renney's trust a long time ago.

DutchShamrock 04-19-2007 06:22 PM

Unfortunately for Hollweg, this 4 game sweep is showing how this team can cope without him. He has heart and energy, but look at Callahan: Heart, energy, speed, skill, scoring and intelligence. There are even more guys just like this in Hartford, you cannot deny them a chance just because Hollweg is a fan favorite.

I agree that Ortmeyer and Betts are big parts of this team but you will begin to see them reduced to 4th line and penalty killing and that is honestly the best thing for them and the team. Eventually their spots will be in jeopardy as well.

Larry, I hope you're right about next year. The question is how do they create the openings in New York? Even if Hollweg is the odd-man out, Renney has shown his reluctance to play the developing kids on the 4th line (and rightly so).

gg 04-19-2007 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas (Post 8995997)
If you are watching closely, Betts does so many little things that help the Rangers win. He's very good defensively, reading passing lanes, winning faceoffs and getting back defensively. He earned Renney's trust a long time ago.

remember when we had to spend millions to buy grit and leadership in Skrudland and Keane? Remember how that failed?

No matter what, you need character players, guys who will do the dirty work, kill penalties, etc. And those guys are far better when developed internally then when traded for or given big money as FA's. I'm not saying that Betts and Orts should not be replaced but let's not kid yourselves and think we should replace them with people who would be ill suited to those roles. That sets up the kids for failure and it is bad for the team. More talent does not equal a better fit.

Larry Melnyk 04-19-2007 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas (Post 8995980)
Damn, your good...why it sounds like the exact thing I've saying...oh, yeah, it is, since it's been an area of agreement between you and I all year. BTW, congrats...we've been at this both here and at RFC for almost a decade now, and, let's face it, as Ranger fans, we deserve this. Sure beats the hell out of the discussions of St. Manny, Nedved v. Fleury and so many other pointless arguments in too many futile seasons.

I'm sorry, but the merits of Jeff Toms and Zdeno Cigar was far from a meaningless arguement...But yeah, it's great to have a team and an organization pointed in the right direction...

Larry Melnyk 04-19-2007 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugerya (Post 8997285)
Unfortunately for Hollweg, this 4 game sweep is showing how this team can cope without him. He has heart and energy, but look at Callahan: Heart, energy, speed, skill, scoring and intelligence. There are even more guys just like this in Hartford, you cannot deny them a chance just because Hollweg is a fan favorite.

I agree that Ortmeyer and Betts are big parts of this team but you will begin to see them reduced to 4th line and penalty killing and that is honestly the best thing for them and the team. Eventually their spots will be in jeopardy as well.

Larry, I hope you're right about next year. The question is how do they create the openings in New York? Even if Hollweg is the odd-man out, Renney has shown his reluctance to play the developing kids on the 4th line (and rightly so).


While I agree that Hollweg is on his way out becasue of the depth in the orgnaization, the Rangers played the Atlanta series with basically 11 forwards. Against a speedier and stronger team like Ottawa, a 12th forward that can skate and bang might be of benefit...Since only Hollweg offers a hint of that, maybe he sees some ice..but just as likely that someone gets recalled from Hartford..

As for next year, I agree it might be tricky opening up all the spots...But the right ones opened up this year and likely the same will happen next year.


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