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-   -   Habs PP without Souray (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=389022)

VanNistelrooy 06-13-2007 11:04 PM

Habs PP without Souray
 
I was wondering if Kovalev would be a great fit with Markov at the blue line. He can move the puck well, get the play installed in the zone, and can be really creative as well. With Ryder, Koivu and Higgins upfront, I think this PP would be very effective.

Habs 4 Life 06-13-2007 11:17 PM

Im sure Gainey knows and has a plan.We'll talk about this in July

SpreeEndaz 06-13-2007 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanNistelrooy (Post 9545413)
I was wondering if Kovalev would be a great fit with Markov at the blue line. He can move the puck well, get the play installed in the zone, and can be really creative as well. With Ryder, Koivu and Higgins upfront, I think this PP would be very effective.

Kostitsyn too could do well on the blueline during PP with his great slapshot.

znk 06-13-2007 11:22 PM

It just wont be the same. The anticipation of seeing Souray seting up for a shot is something unique.

coolguy21415 06-13-2007 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by znk (Post 9545552)
It just wont be the same. The anticipation of seeing Souray seting up for a shot is something unique.

I agree. I love the giant lug but I think he's going to want too much money or just doesn't want to come back. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if none of the Cali teams wanted him and he came back to Montreal.

I recall 2 seasons ago that Kovalev played periodically on the point, likely while Souray was injured. He's an effective puck distributor we'd just need to make sure the players down low could capitalise on the space when a man comes out to pressure him.

Ohashi_Jouzu 06-13-2007 11:29 PM

It's no secret that Kovalev can play the point on a powerplay. He has done it before, and will probably find himself there on occassion before he retires. Atleast with the man advantage his over-thinking and extra moves won't cause him to be as much of a defensive liability. He has the shot and the imagination to handle the duties from time to time. I would still rather have Souray, though.

Kriss E 06-14-2007 12:10 AM

Our PP isnt gonna be that much worst..
A lot of people overestimate Souray's importance on the PP..

The only reason he had so many goals was because everytime we were on the PP Kovalev..Koivu..MArkov..whoever..was always setting up to pass it back to Souray for his shot..
With Souray gone..others will step in and the PP gameplan will be different so the pass back to the point wont be as popular but there's other ways..and btw Markov has a great shot too...so does Streit..and maybe we'll get a new Dman in the offseason..
Im not sayign will be able to finish #1 PP again..but bottom line...having the #1 PP in the league during a full season allowed us to finish 10th in the East....
So really...who gives a ****????

Ice Poutine 06-14-2007 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriss E (Post 9545866)
Our PP isnt gonna be that much worst..
A lot of people overestimate Souray's importance on the PP..

The only reason he had so many goals was because everytime we were on the PP Kovalev..Koivu..MArkov..whoever..was always setting up to pass it back to Souray for his shot..
With Souray gone..others will step in and the PP gameplan will be different so the pass back to the point wont be as popular but there's other ways..and btw Markov has a great shot too...so does Streit..and maybe we'll get a new Dman in the offseason..
Im not sayign will be able to finish #1 PP again..but bottom line...having the #1 PP in the league during a full season allowed us to finish 10th in the East....
So really...who gives a ****????

A bit hard to read but i agree with you! Souray isnt the 'end of it all' - We will stil have a very good PP next year.

Phil Parent 06-14-2007 12:49 AM

I agree that Souray has a presence to him. You can hear it in the crowd when he's got it at the point on the PP, people are getting on the edge of their seat ready to jump.

What pressure though. 42,000 + eyes on YOU. Crap.

Ice Poutine 06-14-2007 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Parent (Post 9546062)
I agree that Souray has a presence to him. You can hear it in the crowd when he's got it at the point on the PP, people are getting on the edge of their seat ready to jump.

What pressure though. 42,000 + eyes on YOU. Crap.

And that translated in a guy who scored 26 goals but was the last line of defense in front of the goalie and let in 28 goals... do the math. :shakehead

Clumsyhab 06-14-2007 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriss E (Post 9545866)
A lot of people overestimate Souray's importance on the PP..

Absolutely wrong. Souray was the bread & butter on the PP last season. He was also the reason why Ryder was left wide open tons of times. Without #44, I guarantee we wouldn't be #1 in the league in the department, top 10 at best.

JohnnyB11 06-14-2007 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriss E (Post 9545866)
Our PP isnt gonna be that much worst..
A lot of people overestimate Souray's importance on the PP..

The only reason he had so many goals was because everytime we were on the PP Kovalev..Koivu..MArkov..whoever..was always setting up to pass it back to Souray for his shot..
With Souray gone..others will step in and the PP gameplan will be different so the pass back to the point wont be as popular but there's other ways..and btw Markov has a great shot too...so does Streit..and maybe we'll get a new Dman in the offseason..
Im not sayign will be able to finish #1 PP again..but bottom line...having the #1 PP in the league during a full season allowed us to finish 10th in the East....
So really...who gives a ****????


That's too funny! The only reason Souray had so many goals was because of nice passes?!?!? Are you kidding me? A nice pass doesn't translate into a goal - with all of our other Dmen playing the point on the PP why weren't the goals spread around throughout the rest of the D? Souray scored 19 PP goals, the rest of the D combined scored a grand total of 8. Did Kovalev, Koivu and the rest just not pass it as nicely to anyone else but Sheldon?

It takes much more than a nice pass to score a goal.

Say what you want about Souray's defence, but don't dismiss the huge part he played on the PP last season just because he may not be around next year. The PP will suffer, no doubt.

Hackett 06-14-2007 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedScull (Post 9545578)
I agree. I love the giant lug but I think he's going to want too much money or just doesn't want to come back. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if none of the Cali teams wanted him and he came back to Montreal.

I recall 2 seasons ago that Kovalev played periodically on the point, likely while Souray was injured. He's an effective puck distributor we'd just need to make sure the players down low could capitalise on the space when a man comes out to pressure him.

Remember the 5 man unit that the pens used on their PP a few years ago? They didn't use any d-man on their unit and it was the deadliest PP in the league. Straka, and kovalev manned the point. Mario, Jagr, Lang up front

Kovy has done it many times in his career but I'd rather have him work the half boards. He's very good at it. He's got a great move where he fakes a move back to the point to open up room for himself. And I'd rather him dangling at the half boards rather than at the last line of defense... you never know with that guy. Markov is obviously going to shoot a bit more if souray leaves... he'll pick up some of the production... but Souray will never be fully replaced in that regard. I think Streit will be given every oppurtunity to join the #1 unit.... barring any major d-man signing, I'll stick to that.

WeThreeKings 06-14-2007 04:57 AM

Even if we get Souray back, he's going to pull a McCabe. Teams will overplay on Souray and eliminate his shot. Let's stop relying on our one-trick-pony PP and start improving our 5-on-5.

ECWHSWI 06-14-2007 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeThreeKings (Post 9546558)
Even if we get Souray back, he's going to pull a McCabe. Teams will overplay on Souray and eliminate his shot. Let's stop relying on our one-trick-pony PP and start improving our 5-on-5.

Agreed, and as an example, the teams that made it to their respective conf. finals, and the two Cup finalists of course...

regular season PP :
Anaheim : 3rd
Ottawa : 14th
Buffalo : 17th
Detroit : 21th

Hackett 06-14-2007 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeThreeKings (Post 9546558)
Even if we get Souray back, he's going to pull a McCabe. Teams will overplay on Souray and eliminate his shot. Let's stop relying on our one-trick-pony PP and start improving our 5-on-5.

The habs exploited the overplay on Souray often enough. It created some plays down low. You dont get the #1 PP if you only have one way to score. The habs could beat you in multiple ways on the PP but it revolved around souray's presence

A little off topic but whose going to replace souray in the character department? He stood up for every guy on this team. Players usually dont wanna mess with him... we've seen players turtle when souray drops the gloves. Whose gonna be the guy who stands up the next time koivu gets run over?

E = CH² 06-14-2007 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackett (Post 9546565)
The habs exploited the overplay on Souray often enough. It created some plays down low. You dont get the #1 PP if you only have one way to score. The habs could beat you in multiple ways on the PP but it revolved around souray's presence

A little off topic but whose going to replace souray in the character department? He stood up for every guy on this team. Players usually dont wanna mess with him... we've seen players turtle when souray drops the gloves. Whose gonna be the guy who stands up the next time koivu gets run over?

Agreed and I have the same question.

Looks to me like a bunch of people are realizing he's most likely gone and trying to convince themselves he won't be missed.

He had a much bigger impact on the PP than his goal totals indicate and from what we heard and saw on the ice he also had an impact in the dressing room.

I wish he'd come back at 4.5M. Would be perfect. People say his defense sucks, and last year I'll readily admit it was worse than ever. But remember against the leafs in that final game, Souray came up big defensively. He's the type of guy who'll raise his play to another level if the stakes are higher or if we pair him with a decent partner.

Souray is getting underated on these boards because of his plus/minus on a terrible team. He's probably not as good offensively as he showed last season and better defensively than what he showed too. Consciously or not, he was probably a bit more concerned about his statistics than usual given the fact it was a contract season and his impending UFA status.

peperebougon* 06-14-2007 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Poutine (Post 9546068)
And that translated in a guy who scored 26 goals but was the last line of defense in front of the goalie and let in 28 goals... do the math. :shakehead

his minus 28 doesn't mean he was reponsible for the 28 goals! come on! plus/minus are an overrated stat. It gives a good idea, yes but you cannot judge a player solely based on this stat.

RC51 06-14-2007 06:55 AM

The habs did NOT make the playoffs, remember.
We dissected this team all year.
We know what needs to be done.

the 5 on 5 play needs to improve, the habs need to get much more dangerous forcing the opposition to play much more defence. It's a cascading effect. Last years supporting players played as good as they could to shut down but contributed little to the " dangerous" side.
Add to that the underachievment of some attack forwards and what do you get?

close but no cigar.

Sauray got most of his points on the PP, but then again anybody that plays all PP will get extra production. The Habs need to get much better production when the Habs are not on the PP.

all this we already know as FACT, so we must let Gainey dump.trade,bring up rookies, in fact whatever it takes to upgrade the entire Habs lineup.

Now the good news, the habs are NOT stuck with little in the prospect pool and are NOT stuck with no cap room.

So can we just wait and see what Gainey will put together in this off season please before we go NUTS. This next training camp will be the MOST interesting one in years.

Lots of open spots and lots of quality options then the habs will enter the 2007-8 season with at least 4-5 new faces in addition to a full season of Kostitsyn and Lapierre and hopefully a faster Latendresse.
Thats a lot of change over the team that was put forward at the beginning of last year.

toshiro 06-14-2007 07:46 AM

Maybe Kots can play the point? Like Bernie did.

znk 06-14-2007 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriss E (Post 9545866)
Our PP isnt gonna be that much worst..
A lot of people overestimate Souray's importance on the PP..

The only reason he had so many goals was because everytime we were on the PP Kovalev..Koivu..MArkov..whoever..was always setting up to pass it back to Souray for his shot..
With Souray gone..others will step in and the PP gameplan will be different so the pass back to the point wont be as popular but there's other ways..and btw Markov has a great shot too...so does Streit..and maybe we'll get a new Dman in the offseason..
Im not sayign will be able to finish #1 PP again..but bottom line...having the #1 PP in the league during a full season allowed us to finish 10th in the East....
So really...who gives a ****????

I dont know how someone can overestimate the importance of a defensemen who broke the NHL record for most PP goals. Could you explain your position a bit more?

znk 06-14-2007 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Poutine (Post 9546068)
And that translated in a guy who scored 26 goals but was the last line of defense in front of the goalie and let in 28 goals... do the math. :shakehead

this stat means that 5 on 5 he was on the ice for 28 more goals by the opposition. Yes....but it does not mean he was responsible for them. He also has something like 40PP points...and those dont give a +
He was minus 3 in the last game of the year. I posted videos of the goals here before. Just go on the NHL site. Just watch and come back and try to serioulsy tell me he had anything to do with them.

GoHabs20 06-14-2007 08:21 AM

nobody will be able to replace SOURAY's hard and accurate shot. Habs PP will suffer.:cry:

Don't think Kosts should play the point at all.:p:

E = CH² 06-14-2007 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by znk (Post 9547070)
this stat means that 5 on 5 he was on the ice for 28 more goals by the opposition. Yes....but it does not mean he was responsible for them. He also has something like 40PP points...and those dont give a +
He was minus 3 in the last game of the year. I posted videos of the goals here before. Just go on the NHL site. Just watch and come back and try to serioulsy tell me he had anything to do with them.

Regardless of his +/- that game, I saw Souray play a good game defensively. (supporting your point)

loudi94 06-14-2007 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by znk (Post 9547036)
I dont know how someone can overestimate the importance of a defensemen who broke the NHL record for most PP goals. Could you explain your position a bit more?

I didn't write the quote, but my interpretation of this situation revolves around the 5 on 5 situation. The Habs clearly need to improve upon that area. What is Souray's worth 5 on 5? His contributions to the powerplay were significant, but the Habs have enough talent to replace a lot of those goals. Markov alone should be good for 10 on the PP, while some of the other suggestions made regarding replacements seem like they can make up the difference. Bottom line- what are Souray's 26 goals worth on a talented non-playoff team that has trouble 5 on 5? I say his leadership is his biggest asset that will hurt the most if he goes.


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