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-   -   Why not Scatchard? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=39205)

Sonik 12-28-2003 12:27 PM

Why not Scatchard?
 
I know, I'm surely biased (if you haven't notice my avatar), but I can't understand a guy like Dave Scatchard isn't in the trade rumors between Isles and Habs.

If you don't really know him, read this:

-Height : 6' 3"
-Weight : 220
-Age : 27 (28 in feb)
-27 goals last year
-108 pen. minutes last year
-One of the best faceoff man in the league (around 15th in my memory, he could fill in Perreault skates next year)
-Salary : $1,4 M
-Have a good tendency to drop the gloves

What do you think? He's a real fighter, a potential power foward, and he plays on the 4th line in NY. I also read that Milbury wants him to move. So, it could be a great addition to the Habs.

I can see Gainey give a 2 class prospect since he's an underrated player and Milbury wants to drop his team salary. Am I the only one who wants him with the Habs? :dunno:

5_for_fighting 12-28-2003 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonik
I know, I'm surely biased (if you haven't notice my avatar), but I can't understand a guy like Dave Scatchard isn't in the trade rumors between Isles and Habs.

If you don't really know him, read this:

-Height : 6' 3"
-Weight : 220
-Age : 27 (28 in feb)
-27 goals last year
-108 pen. minutes last year
-One of the best faceoff man in the league (around 15th in my memory, he could fill in Perreault skates next year)
-Salary : $1,4 M
-Have a good tendency to drop the gloves

What do you think? He's a real fighter, a potential power foward, and he plays on the 4th line in NY. I also read that Milbury wants him to move. So, it could be a great addition to the Habs.

I can see Gainey give a 2 class prospect since he's an underrated player and Milbury wants to drop his team salary. Am I the only one who wants him with the Habs? :dunno:

nope, you aren't the only one who wants Scratch in mtl. I'd also take him.
what a welcomed addition to the habs he would make :yo:

Patty Roy 12-28-2003 12:54 PM

I'd love to have Scatchard in Montreal...but his contract is more than fair...i don't see what would motivate the Islanders to trade him at this point.

Freaky Habs Fan 12-28-2003 12:56 PM

I would Like ti see him in Montreal to but I don't see the Isle's take a mid prospect for him but maybe BG could make a package with Begin...They are both the same type of player but give a lot more scoring potential to Scatchard.

Begin+pick for Scatchard???

goalchenyuk 12-28-2003 01:24 PM

1997-98 Vancouver Canucks NHL 76 13 11 24
1998-99 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 13 13 26
1999-00 Vancouver Canucks NHL 21 0 4 4
1999-00 New-York Islanders NHL 44 12 14 26
2000-01 New-York Islanders NHL 81 21 24 45
2001-02 New-York Islanders NHL 80 12 15 27
2002-03 New-York Islanders NHL 81 27 18 45
2003-04 New-York Islanders NHL 15 4 2 6
NHL Totals 480 102 101 203

difficult to say ; he's not having consistant numbers ; and what i don't like about that is that most of the time , players have less goals when they are playing for the canadians...$&%?$$

Patty Roy 12-28-2003 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan
I would Like ti see him in Montreal to but I don't see the Isle's take a mid prospect for him but maybe BG could make a package with Begin...They are both the same type of player but give a lot more scoring potential to Scatchard.

Begin+pick for Scatchard???

Unless that pick is a 1st, i don't see the Islanders biting. Begin has been a real nice suprise this season and has brought alot of intensity to the Habs, but my guess is that his perception around the league is still very much as fringe NHLer. Scatchard is a big center whose salary is under the league average and who scored 27 goals last season...he won't come cheap.

Mike8 12-28-2003 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonik
I can't understand a guy like Dave Scatchard isn't in the trade rumors between Isles and Habs.

Easy: the Isles have no motivation to deal him. He's not overpaid, he's one of the main contributors to the Isles' physical play, and he's a strong third line player.

BTW, he's been playing third line in Long Island, and will only see his role increase with Yashin's injury.

CREW99AW 12-28-2003 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonik
I know, I'm surely biased (if you haven't notice my avatar), but I can't understand a guy like Dave Scatchard isn't in the trade rumors between Isles and Habs.

If you don't really know him, read this:

-Height : 6' 3"
-Weight : 220
-Age : 27 (28 in feb)
-27 goals last year
-108 pen. minutes last year
-One of the best faceoff man in the league (around 15th in my memory, he could fill in Perreault skates next year)
-Salary : $1,4 M
-Have a good tendency to drop the gloves

What do you think? He's a real fighter, a potential power foward, and he plays on the 4th line in NY. I also read that Milbury wants him to move. So, it could be a great addition to the Habs.

I can see Gainey give a 2 class prospect since he's an underrated player and Milbury wants to drop his team salary. Am I the only one who wants him with the Habs? :dunno:


Scatchard plays on the 3rd line and there hasn't been one article in any of the ny papers or on the all-sports radio stations that MM wants to move Scatchard.

his $1.4m salary and size/grit have drawn interest from other team.

the last time the press reported the nyi considered trading Scatchard,McKenzie(tsn.ca) says in July 2002 the Flames offered Derek Morris for Scatchard+Izzy.That was before Scatchard's 27 goal season.

Isles aren't dealing Scatchard for a class 2 prospect.They'd package him and get something of value.

Kvashinator12 12-28-2003 05:49 PM

Counter Proposal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan
I would Like ti see him in Montreal to but I don't see the Isle's take a mid prospect for him but maybe BG could make a package with Begin...They are both the same type of player but give a lot more scoring potential to Scatchard.

Begin+pick for Scatchard???



how about this package


Papineau and a pick for Zednik.


does that work? They are both undersized scorer types.

Freaky Habs Fan 12-28-2003 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
how about this package


Papineau and a pick for Zednik.


does that work? They are both undersized scorer types.


My point was: if the habs want to do a deal for Scrachard, they would have to give a player with grit who play the same type of game. Scrachard is not the best player of the Isle's...As for Zednik, he's one of our best player...And like other posters said, I dont see why New-York would like to move him...I was just making a sugestion of what I think it would take.

Sonik 12-28-2003 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan
And like other posters said, I dont see why New-York would like to move him...

You're right... I'm just a dreamer... But who knows? :p

Kvashinator12 12-29-2003 02:11 AM

And
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan
My point was: if the habs want to do a deal for Scrachard, they would have to give a player with grit who play the same type of game. Scrachard is not the best player of the Isle's...As for Zednik, he's one of our best player...And like other posters said, I dont see why New-York would like to move him...I was just making a sugestion of what I think it would take.


Scatchard is one of our best players while Begin is a fringe NHL'er at best. TO say he plays the same game as Scatchard isn't correct. When he scores 20 and fights anyone to protect his teammates then maybe.

Jeffrey 12-29-2003 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
Scatchard is one of our best players while Begin is a fringe NHL'er at best. TO say he plays the same game as Scatchard isn't correct. When he scores 20 and fights anyone to protect his teammates then maybe.

begin can't score 20 ... but he surely can fight anyone and protect his teammates ...
anyway .. NYI won't trade Scatchard unless they pack him with somebody else and even there i doubt..

Marksman 12-30-2003 08:55 AM

Why not Scatchard, its easy to see.

But why not Green or Wiemer?

Darth Milbury 12-30-2003 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonik
I know, I'm surely biased (if you haven't notice my avatar), but I can't understand a guy like Dave Scatchard isn't in the trade rumors between Isles and Habs.


What do you think? He's a real fighter, a potential power foward, and he plays on the 4th line in NY. I also read that Milbury wants him to move. So, it could be a great addition to the Habs.

I can see Gainey give a 2 class prospect since he's an underrated player and Milbury wants to drop his team salary. Am I the only one who wants him with the Habs? :dunno:


He isn't in trade rumors because he is not available. And, he would certainly cost more than "a 2 class" prospect to acquire. And, btw, he has never been demoted to the 4th line at any time in his Islander career. He usually plays on the third line, but takes shifts on the second line, the PP. He is almost always on the ice during the last few minutes of the game, either to predict a lead or to help tie it up.

tinyzombies 12-30-2003 09:02 AM

We have a ton of kids at forward coming up through the minor leagues, we don't need a checking line player who can't create or pass or sustain a spot on the second line with the New York Islanders.

The rebuilding program continues...

Darth Milbury 12-30-2003 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan
My point was: if the habs want to do a deal for Scrachard, they would have to give a player with grit who play the same type of game. Scrachard is not the best player of the Isle's...As for Zednik, he's one of our best player...And like other posters said, I dont see why New-York would like to move him...I was just making a sugestion of what I think it would take.


What did the Habs pay for Begin? Nothing.

What does that tell you about his trade value?


I like Begin and think he was a decent pickup for the Habs. But, it is urnrealistic to suggest that he could be the principal in a deal for Scatchard. I think the Papineau for Zednik deal proposed above was an example on same scale of one-sidedness.

tinyzombies 12-30-2003 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
What did the Habs pay for Begin? Nothing.

What does that tell you about his trade value?


I like Begin and think he was a decent pickup for the Habs. But, it is urnrealistic to suggest that he could be the principal in a deal for Scatchard. I think the Papineau for Zednik deal proposed above was an example on same scale of one-sidedness.

I think we're lowballing each other...lol. Begin is not equal value for Scatchard, but he is a heart and soul player. How the Sabres didn't protect this guy is beyond me. Begin has the potential to be an elite checking line player.

If you think Scatchard's upside is as a 30-goal, physical center, then it's underpaying. I happen to think Scatchard has no offensive upside...lol. He is an elite checker already tho.

Darth Milbury 12-30-2003 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I think we're lowballing each other...lol. Begin is not equal value for Scatchard, but he is a heart and soul player. How the Sabres didn't protect this guy is beyond me. Begin has the potential to be an elite checking line player.

If you think Scatchard's upside is as a 30-goal, physical center, then it's underpaying. I happen to think Scatchard has no offensive upside...lol. He is an elite checker already tho.


Scatchard scored 27 goals last season and has averaged 20 goals a seasons for the past three years. I seriously doubt he has 30 goal upside, but those are still very impressive numbers.

Begin, in his entire career, has never shown hints of being an "elite checkling line player." What he has shown is that he can be a valuable 4th line guy. A useful pickup and a player who could help many of the teams in the NHL? certainly. Elite? Probably not.

Not only did Buffalo fail to protect him, but a bunch of teams failed to show any interest in acquiring him. Begin doesn't have much, if any, trade value.

tinyzombies 12-30-2003 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Scatchard scored 27 goals last season and has averaged 20 goals a seasons for the past three years. I seriously doubt he has 30 goal upside, but those are still very impressive numbers.

Begin, in his entire career, has never shown hints of being an "elite checkling line player." What he has shown is that he can be a valuable 4th line guy. A useful pickup and a player who could help many of the teams in the NHL? certainly. Elite? Probably not.

Not only did Buffalo fail to protect him, but a bunch of teams failed to show any interest in acquiring him. Begin doesn't have much, if any, trade value.

You haven't seen him play this year, obviously. He's been awesome. Considering his low trade value and his high value to the Habs, I would think he is untradeable anyway. I don't know why anyone would bring his name up.

Darth Milbury 12-30-2003 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
You haven't seen him play this year, obviously. He's been awesome.


I have seen him play. He has been a solid pickup and done well. That doesn't make him "elite" or "awesome." Begin is a solid physical 4th line forward - a useful role player. Nothing more.

You're basically talking about a journeyman 4th line forward here with limited skill level. Yeah, he is a guy that could help some teams because of his grit and size. But, he has no offensive skills to speak of (1 goal in 26 games) and is only average in terms of defensive skills. I would not even want to argue that Begin is an above average fourth liner at this point.

tinyzombies 12-30-2003 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I have seen him play. He has been a solid pickup and done well. That doesn't make him "elite" or "awesome." Begin is a solid physical 4th line forward - a useful role player. Nothing more.

You're basically talking about a journeyman 4th line forward here with limited skill level. Yeah, he is a guy that could help some teams because of his grit and size. But, he has no offensive skills to speak of (1 goal in 26 games) and is only average in terms of defensive skills. I would not even want to argue that Begin is an above average fourth liner at this point.

Average defensive skills? Say what? He has been awesome in his stints on the checking line and has singlehandedly carried the fourth line. Not only that, but he's a leader and plays with heart, one of the few guys on our team that does. If your idea of awesome is limited to offensive output, I want to play your team every day!

Darth Milbury 12-30-2003 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Average defensive skills? Say what? He has been awesome in his stints on the checking line and has singlehandedly carried the fourth line. If your idea of awesome is limited to offensive output, I want to play your team every day!


You're seriously overstating what Begin has accomplished. According to NHL.com, Begin played about 10 minutes a night. He hasn't seen that much time on the PK (about two minutes per night) and isn't even a plus player.

This is a mediocre fourth liner with little to no trade value. He does some things well, but Dave Scatchard he is not. I like Begin, but it is more than a bit of an over statement to call him "elite."

tinyzombies 12-30-2003 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
You're seriously overstating what Begin has accomplished. According to NHL.com, Begin played about 10 minutes a night. He hasn't seen that much time on the PK (about two minutes per night) and isn't even a plus player.

This is a mediocre fourth liner with little to no trade value. He does some things well, but Dave Scatchard he is not. I like Begin, but it is more than a bit of an over statement to call him "elite."

I said he had the potential to become elite. But it looks like we've agreed to disagree. It could be also that I'm overly excited to see a player with any heart whatsoever. It's been a longhaul the last ten years! :D

Darth Milbury 12-30-2003 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I said he had the potential to become elite. But it looks like we've agreed to disagree. It could be also that I'm overly excited to see a player with any heart whatsoever. It's been a longhaul the last ten years! :D


OK, but to be clear, I'm not saying that Begin doesn't have heart or isn't a useful player. I was surprised that he was available in the waiver draft as well and think he is a very solid 4th line guy. I just think the term "elite" should be reserved for the best players in their positions and roles - and I don't see Begin being at that level.


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