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True Blue 12-29-2003 04:03 AM

What the 'Leafs game clearly showed
 
was that the most glaring need on the Rangers goes unfilled every day. That need is a physical, stay-at-home defenseman. I am posting this in a seperate thread, becuase apparently the game thread is closed. What happened this time?
Anyway, let's just recall the first and last Leaf goals. On the first, Roberts simply went through Malacough and Bobo just stared at him. Mironov should have stopped Roberts from striding, untouched to the net, but he did nothing and a goal was scored. On the last, Malacough decided to get pretty with the puck and lost it to Sundin. Result? Goal. Game over.
Had we had just a regular stay-at-home, results could have been different. I don't know for a fact what could have changed, but one can make a guess that if a player simply gets in Roberts way, the goal may not be scored. Or if a player just does the simple play with a puck when Mats SUndin is draped all over him, the giveaway does not occur.
I seem to recall pleading in the offseason that if a UFA HAD to be signed, why not a defensive defensemen? Someone like Klee. I think that Melnyk took up the call as well. NOw I can't know if things would have been different for a fact, but one can make a guess that Klee, unlike Mironov, would get in Roberts way. Or unlike Malacough, would not cough up the puck in overtime.
Watching the game made it all the more clear. If this team could have a steady, stay at home to be a partner to Leetch, everything would seemingly lock into place. Leetch/said stay at home would be the first pairing, de Vries and Kasper would be the 2nd, and I guess we could live with M&M as our 3rd paring (not saying I like them, just saying).
To me this means that Poti is the oddman out. It is folly to pair him and Leetch. It is folly to have Leetch & Poti as a PK killing pair. I just think that there is not place for Poti on THIS team.
In other news, Kasper is playing the best he has since he got here. I REALLY like pairing him with de Vries. Kasper is playing his nasty self again.

Davisian 12-29-2003 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
was that the most glaring need on the Rangers goes unfilled every day. That need is a physical, stay-at-home defenseman.

Correction, two most glaring needs..

Stay at home defenseman, and more speed..

Which is why I proposed on the TR board the following..

Hal Gill, Dan McGillis and Brian Rolston

for

Tom Poti, Vlad Malakhov and Dan LaCouture

Don't know if the B's have any interest in Vlad, but I thought I'd try.. He's done at the end of the season, but Rolston also is a UFA.. Dan LAc and Poti are two Boston boys, and IMO would be good fits on that team..

I've wanted Rolston's speed on this team for several years, nd it may be a risk with his UFA status, but I'm willing to take that risk right now..

SingnBluesOnBroadway 12-29-2003 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
was that the most glaring need on the Rangers goes unfilled every day. That need is a physical, stay-at-home defenseman.

Everyday? Don't you mean every year? This team has never replaced Jeff Beukeboom.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 12-29-2003 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davisian
Correction, two most glaring needs..

Stay at home defenseman, and more speed..

Which is why I proposed on the TR board the following..

Hal Gill, Dan McGillis and Brian Rolston

for

Tom Poti, Vlad Malakhov and Dan LaCouture

Don't know if the B's have any interest in Vlad, but I thought I'd try.. He's done at the end of the season, but Rolston also is a UFA.. Dan LAc and Poti are two Boston boys, and IMO would be good fits on that team..

I've wanted Rolston's speed on this team for several years, nd it may be a risk with his UFA status, but I'm willing to take that risk right now..

I makes that deal in a heartbeat. But I can't seen Boston doing it.

JCProdigy 12-29-2003 04:34 AM

While I certainly agree that the Rangers most glaring need is a stay at home D, the most glaring thing on the OT goal from Sundin was that our goalie didn't make a save on a fairly stoppable shot from a bad angle in a crunch time situation. Granted, you're right that Sundin shouldn't have been in position to get the shot but players of Sundin calibre tend to make even the best defensive d-man make mistakes at times.

Another one of the Rangers biggest weakeness's is the lack of a prime time player on this team. With all the "stars" this team has, that game was ripe for the taking late in the third/OT and nobody could step up and drive the final nail into the coffin. I'm in no way proposing Jagr so I hope nobody thinks I'm going that way. I just wish one of thes guys would step up and complete the task. Guess that's the reason why I actually miss a guy like Bure who probably would have made the play that Sundin did.

Davisian 12-29-2003 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I makes that deal in a heartbeat. But I can't seen Boston doing it.

It was my understanding that they wanted a PP qb and that Rolston was on the block, but I'd certainly be willing to give a bit more to even things out..

I looked at it as Rolston>>> LaCouture and Poti>>> Gill...

Melrose_Jr. 12-29-2003 04:54 AM

I'm not sure the problem is as much the personnel as it is the game plan. Leetch is out of position as often as Malakhov. Everyone's first move is the poke check instead of simply taking the body. Covergage is blown around the net constantly. It shouldn't take a Norris candidate, or even Hal Gil, to understand the fundamentals of the game. Either the team doesn't understand the plan, can't execute the plan, or the plan flat out sucks, I dunno, but problem with the plan is more of a concern to me than the personnel at this point.

JCProdigy 12-29-2003 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
I'm not sure the problem is as much the personnel as it is the game plan. Leetch is out of position as often as Malakhov. Everyone's first move is the poke check instead of simply taking the body. Covergage is blown around the net constantly. It shouldn't take a Norris candidate, or even Hal Gil, to understand the fundamentals of the game. Either the team doesn't understand the plan, can't execute the plan, or the plan flat out sucks, I dunno, but problem with the plan is more of a concern to me than the personnel at this point.

Yep, but they still could use an upgrade on D. It's a mish mash of all the above probably but as Ranger's fans, we just have to hope that they can correct something that they haven't been able to over the past several years. I'm not betting on it.

Davisian 12-29-2003 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
but problem with the plan is more of a concern to me than the personnel at this point.

I think the problem is the personnel that's supposed to follow the plan.. If that makes any sense..

Seems like there's not enough speed and presence on the blueline to execute the plan the way it's supposed to.. A little late to the play here, a little to weak in front or in the corner there..

Jackson Ranger 12-29-2003 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davisian
I think the problem is the personnel that's supposed to follow the plan.. If that makes any sense..

Seems like there's not enough speed and presence on the blueline to execute the plan the way it's supposed to.. A little late to the play here, a little to weak in front or in the corner there..

Agree 100%. In the past I would have said we needed a tough, stay at home defenseman but in today's hockey, you need the wheels to execute the trapping defensive systems. Which is probably why this team isn't that successful with the trap.

This team has a lot of holes and the first one I would correct is the speed. It's a lot easier to get that than the tough, stay at home d'man.

True Blue 12-29-2003 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Either the team doesn't understand the plan, can't execute the plan, or the plan flat out sucks, I dunno, but problem with the plan is more of a concern to me than the personnel at this point.

While you and I have certainly speculated about the gameplan, there is a little more to it. To be sure, the problem starts with what you said. Either Sather's/Renney's is too complex to understand, or is just unexecutable, or the players refuse to execute it. Another problem is the fact that you cannot make a manageable NHL-worthy top 6 defensemen out of this group. While we can get away with having de Vries/Kasper as our 2nd pairing and M&M as our 3rd (though we ALL would rather the 3rd pairing was more concerned with clearing the crease than personal points), we cannot get away from the fact that defensively, the Leetch/Poti pairing is inept. Utterly incapable of clearing the crease and an absolute handicap on the PK. Trading Poti + for a similarly aged partner for Leetch would set everyone into better roles. Leetchie would be paired with a crease clearer, de Vries and Kasper would be the 2nd pairing, and M&M would have to squek by as our 3rd.
This teams refusal to clear the crease is glaring. I am getting pretty good and tired of Poti move out of the way of an onrushing skater so that the goalie can "see the shot better". I am pretty sick and tired of Malacough or Krispy coughing up the puck or (while they are more than capable of delivering a hit along the boards) getting too preoccupied with rushing the puck instead of clearing the crease.

kazo 12-29-2003 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
I'm not sure the problem is as much the personnel as it is the game plan. Leetch is out of position as often as Malakhov. Everyone's first move is the poke check instead of simply taking the body. Covergage is blown around the net constantly. It shouldn't take a Norris candidate, or even Hal Gil, to understand the fundamentals of the game. Either the team doesn't understand the plan, can't execute the plan, or the plan flat out sucks, I dunno, but problem with the plan is more of a concern to me than the personnel at this point.

Couldn't agree more as far as defensive zone coverage is concerned, especially in front of the Ranger net. As far as I'm concerned, I think this bunch could be the worst in the league. Nobody except for maybe deVries touches anybody in the low slot and opposing players are allowed to whack away at lose pucks. And as far as I'm concerned Leetch is as big a culprit as anybody else. Well, maybe Malakhov is the worst. How bad must Bouchard and Purinton be if they can't crack this top six. That pathetic poke check by Malakhov on Sundin's game winner should have been enough to cause something dramatic to happen. But it won't.

Couple of other thoughts. Why do Simon and Barnaby not get more ice? and what exactly does Pascal Rheaume add to this team?

True Blue 12-29-2003 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazo
and what exactly does Pascal Rheaume add to this team?

Whatever it is, it's more than Hlavac adds.

sickboy35 12-29-2003 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazo
Couldn't agree more as far as defensive zone coverage is concerned, especially in front of the Ranger net. As far as I'm concerned, I think this bunch could be the worst in the league. Nobody except for maybe deVries touches anybody in the low slot and opposing players are allowed to whack away at lose pucks. And as far as I'm concerned Leetch is as big a culprit as anybody else. Well, maybe Malakhov is the worst. How bad must Bouchard and Purinton be if they can't crack this top six. That pathetic poke check by Malakhov on Sundin's game winner should have been enough to cause something dramatic to happen. But it won't.

Couple of other thoughts. Why do Simon and Barnaby not get more ice? and what exactly does Pascal Rheaume add to this team?


i was at the game and what true blue says is right! i don't know what these guys are thinking? if gary roberts is going to the net, unmolested, while our defense is backing up, practiclly running into our own goaltender, something is very wrong!! roberts did the same thing twice against us! they know they are not going to pay a price against us! if it were me i'd take my forearm and implant it in roberts head, just for thinking he can do that! malacough goes to play the puck instead of the body? look what happens? we have not replaced beukeboom and i think some of the guys on here have been saying it for a while, as have i! we are not gm's! we are fans! how could we know this and not them? get poti off this team as quick as possible? as i said to one of the guys at the game, "we traded mike york for this?" "no wonder what is wrong with this team?" he flat out sucks!! i don't want to hear a peep about his offensive skill!! he just sucks!! he might as well bend over when an opposing player comes at him! because all they are going to do to him is a$$ **** him!! also, why the hell do ranger fans let opposing teams fans abuse them? i had a few over by me yelling ***** and talking all kinds of smack, finally i turned around and said " shut the f@#$ up or i'm coming over there and kicking your effin a$$es up and down the garden isles!" as soon as i said it everyone wanted in? what do we need someone to hold our hand? if they did that crap in philly they would've gotten their a$$es kicked! when did the garden get so wimpy?

kazo 12-29-2003 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Whatever it is, it's more than Hlavac adds.

Six of one............

In any case, how can anyone seriously expect this team to contend for a playoff spot when at least 1/3 of the forwards are unable to contribute in a positive way and the entire defense is amont the worst in the league. You can talk about systems all you want but the real problem(s) are a lack of talent and a lack of caring.

True Blue 12-29-2003 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazo
Six of one............

Not really. At least with Rhueme, we are getting defensive play and backchecking. Can't say that about Hlavac.
As for not enough talent, that is not really accurate. We DO have talent. Plenty of it. But it is not the type of players we need. We have entirely too many players more concerned with padding stats than with any hard work. Right now, our defense has 3 players who are playing well and actuall try to pay attention to defense. They are Leetch, Kasper, & de Vries. Yes, Leetchie gets caught out of position, but he hustles, and is not afraid of giving up the body and plays well defensively for the most part.

DLaCouture39 12-29-2003 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Not really. At least with Rhueme, we are getting defensive play and backchecking. Can't say that about Hlavac.
As for not enough talent, that is not really accurate. We DO have talent. Plenty of it. But it is not the type of players we need. We have entirely too many players more concerned with padding stats than with any hard work. Right now, our defense has 3 players who are playing well and actuall try to pay attention to defense. They are Leetch, Kasper, & de Vries. Yes, Leetchie gets caught out of position, but he hustles, and is not afraid of giving up the body and plays well defensively for the most part.

Since we need a defensive defenseman, what would it take to get D Richard Matvichuk here. I think he would be a good pair for Leetch. He blocks shots and takes the body.

How about Richard Matvichuk to Rangers for 3rd round pick in 2004.

Then we dump Malakhov to say Kings for Sean Avery.

kazo 12-29-2003 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Not really. At least with Rhueme, we are getting defensive play and backchecking. Can't say that about Hlavac.
As for not enough talent, that is not really accurate. We DO have talent. Plenty of it. But it is not the type of players we need. We have entirely too many players more concerned with padding stats than with any hard work. Right now, our defense has 3 players who are playing well and actuall try to pay attention to defense. They are Leetch, Kasper, & de Vries. Yes, Leetchie gets caught out of position, but he hustles, and is not afraid of giving up the body and plays well defensively for the most part.

Pascal Rheaume is a redundant piece of the puzzle. How many faceoff men and defensive forwards can you have? If you're going to have him on the team, get rid of Ortmyer and Lacouture.

As far as talent is concerned, when do we get to the point when we say NYR talent is overrated? After how many years of watching the same kinds of things happen game in and game out and year in and year out? When I talk about talent I'm talking at least as much about intangibles as about physical ability.

I disagree on Leetch and Kasper. Neither one, as far as I can see plays any kind of tough D in front of the net. Kasper may play tough elsewhere but not there. Leetch still has it offensively but he is nowhere near the player he used to be defensively.

I watched the Toronto feed Friday nite and I'm not a big fan of their broadcasts but Glen Healy nailed it on the head when he said the Ranger play in front of their net was embarrasingly pitiful throughout the four games between the two teams.

True Blue 12-29-2003 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazo
I watched the Toronto feed Friday nite and I'm not a big fan of their broadcasts but Glen Healy nailed it on the head when he said the Ranger play in front of their net was embarrasingly pitiful throughout the four games between the two teams.

There I agree with you. But the Rangers have been pitiful in front of the net all year. I agree that toughness along the boards (ie. Kasper)does not translate to toughness in front of your own net. But I think that trading Poti + to land one, young, tough SOB would be a good move to make. One can get by with say Leetch/Boyton-Gauthier-Gill and de Vries/Kasper as your top 2 pairings. We would just have to suffer through M&M being our 3rd paring.

"How about Richard Matvichuk to Rangers for 3rd round pick in 2004.

Then we dump Malakhov to say Kings for Sean Avery."

2 things. What drugs did you give to Dallas to make that trade? Second, do you ever have consideration of $$$ when you make your trade proposals? If you did, then you would know that there is no way that you can dump off Malacough on the Kings. Not without picking up the rest of the $$$ owed to him. And the last think the Kings D needs is an apathetic, over-the-hill Malacough. Andy Murray actuall thinks that the defense should take care of their own end first. Malacough has never thought that way.

kazo 12-29-2003 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
There I agree with you. But the Rangers have been pitiful in front of the net all year. I agree that toughness along the boards (ie. Kasper)does not translate to toughness in front of your own net. But I think that trading Poti + to land one, young, tough SOB would be a good move to make. One can get by with say Leetch/Boyton-Gauthier-Gill and de Vries/Kasper as your top 2 pairings. We would just have to suffer through M&M being our 3rd paring.

"How about Richard Matvichuk to Rangers for 3rd round pick in 2004.

Then we dump Malakhov to say Kings for Sean Avery."

2 things. What drugs did you give to Dallas to make that trade? Second, do you ever have consideration of $$$ when you make your trade proposals? If you did, then you would know that there is no way that you can dump off Malacough on the Kings. Not without picking up the rest of the $$$ owed to him. And the last think the Kings D needs is an apathetic, over-the-hill Malacough. Andy Murray actuall thinks that the defense should take care of their own end first. Malacough has never thought that way.

TB,

How can either Bouchard or Purinton be worse than Malakhov? Is that possible? Because if it is, neither of those guys belong in the NHL.

Malakhov for Avery? I'd fly out to LA personally to make the exchange.

kazo 12-29-2003 11:00 AM

One other point on Friday night's game. Did anyone comment on the fact that the two forwards with the least amount of icetime where Simon and Barnaby. How in the hell does the coaching staff reconcile that fact?

True Blue 12-29-2003 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazo
How can either Bouchard or Purinton be worse than Malakhov? Is that possible? Because if it is, neither of those guys belong in the NHL.

I don't disagree here. As far as I'm concerned, I do not think that anyone can disagree with the fact that at this point, there is no way that Poti, Malacough, and Krispy should be playing while Bouchard is on the bench. Now, I would be in favor of playing Purinton as well. But there are people here that would disagree. I agree with you, Kazo. Neither Bouchard nor Purinton can do worse than our current worst 2 defensemen, Poti & Malacough. After that comes Krispy.

"How in the hell does the coaching staff reconcile that fact?"

Because like Uncle Glen must think, surely we cannot have either Simon or Barnaby play the PP becuase it would disrupt what is a cohesive unit. Personally, I would have Simon out there on all PP's with the instrucitions that his only job is to park himself in front of the net. And there is no way that Hlavac should have more ice time than Barnaby. I would give Matty a shot on the PP as well.

NYR469 12-29-2003 02:16 PM

sather tried to sign ken klee, but klee took LESS $$ and less years to sign with toronto...

NYR469 12-29-2003 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davisian
Hal Gill, Dan McGillis and Brian Rolston

for Tom Poti, Vlad Malakhov and Dan LaCouture

rolston would be a great addition but gill & mcgillis would be like popovic and karpa revisited...i know people are just looking for any way to get rid of poti & malakhov but this deal doesn't really improve anything...

nhlpa.com show that mcgillis & gill have thrown a combined 84 hits, poti & malakhov have thrown a combine 68...so you are adding a 1/2 hit/game between the 2 combined...

and poti is NOT getting traded for hal gill...reports in boston say that sather is demanding one of the bruins top young players in return for him

sickboy35 12-29-2003 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
rolston would be a great addition but gill & mcgillis would be like popovic and karpa revisited...i know people are just looking for any way to get rid of poti & malakhov but this deal doesn't really improve anything...

nhlpa.com show that mcgillis & gill have thrown a combined 84 hits, poti & malakhov have thrown a combine 68...so you are adding a 1/2 hit/game between the 2 combined...

and poti is NOT getting traded for hal gill...reports in boston say that sather is demanding one of the bruins top young players in return for him


well i say get him off this team!! tytuin(spelling) is ready! if you can work a trade for rolston, do it!!


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