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-   -   Canucks/Sharks Proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=39412)

Hi-wayman 12-29-2003 09:06 AM

Canucks/Sharks Proposal
 
To SJ: Daniel & Henrik Sedin
To Van: Patrick Marleau, Rob Davison

SpinTheBlackCircle 12-29-2003 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
To SJ: Daniel & Henrik Sedin
To Van: Patrick Marleau, Rob Davison

Ummm. No. We'll give you Ricci.

Peter Griffin 12-29-2003 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild GM
Ummm. No. We'll give you Ricci.

For the Sedins?

SpinTheBlackCircle 12-29-2003 09:16 AM

Just as fair as the first proposal.

Peter Griffin 12-29-2003 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild GM
Just as fair as the first proposal.


Sure...... :shakehead

San Jose likely wouldn't trade Marleau for the Sedins, but the value is there.

Hi-wayman 12-29-2003 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild GM
Just as fair as the first proposal.

How so? Please explain. The way I see it is the main reason the Sharks likely would not be interested is that Marleau is required for the Sharks offense if they feel Damphousse couldn't pick up the slack. The Sedins still are quality talent, would be sorely missed by the Canucks & IMHO Michalek, together with the twins, would be a dangerous line to be reconded with for many years to come.

Marleau would excell on the Canucks as the Canucks have better wingers to play with him IMO. Davison is also the type of stay at home, #6 defenseman with a mean streak the Canucks also need.

nordique 12-29-2003 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
How so? Please explain. The way I see it is the main reason the Sharks likely would not be interested is that Marleau is required for the Sharks offense if they feel Damphousse couldn't pick up the slack. The Sedins still are quality talent, would be sorely missed by the Canucks & IMHO Michalek, together with the twins, would be a dangerous line to be reconded with for many years to come.

Marleau would excell on the Canucks as the Canucks have better wingers to play with him IMO. Davison is also the type of stay at home, #6 defenseman with a mean streak the Canucks also need.

Marleau is probably San Jose's most valuable asset. Considering the Sedins "talent" hasn't amounted to a whole lot in the NHL, I think you're wildly overestimating their trade value.

San Jose laughs at this and moves on.

Baron Von Shark 12-29-2003 09:57 AM

Marleau is finally starting to play at a consistent level. He's no longer a shy, timid perimeter player. Instead, he's goign into high traffic zones and using his size to his advantage. The Sharks would be crazy to trade Patrick Marleau right now, especially for the Sedin sisters.

Rob Davison has also proven to be more valuable to the Sharks than he would be in a trade. He is a solid, no non-sense physical dman, young and filled with drive. He's a keeper, for now.

canucksfan 12-29-2003 10:04 AM

As a Canucks fan I would do that trade in a second. Marleau is an extremely talented forward and the Sedins seem to be developing as checking third liners that cant score.

Hi-wayman 12-29-2003 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nordique
Marleau is probably San Jose's most valuable asset. Considering the Sedins "talent" hasn't amounted to a whole lot in the NHL, I think you're wildly overestimating their trade value.

San Jose laughs at this and moves on.

How have the Sedins "talent" not amounted to a whole lot in the NHL? They are already two of the best players in the NHL in keeping & controlling the puck in the opposition's end of the rink. They may not score as much as many fans would like, but few teams score on them or actually get to even touch the puck when they are on the ice. Their puck control & cycling is a major factor why the Canuck defensemen can move up into the play & contribute to the team's overall scoring. Few teams in the league would not be enthusiastic to acquire the Sedins if they could. Vancouver is actually one of the few teams that can reasonably replace their skills because the team could feild a similar puck control/cycling line of Arvedson - Chubarov/Kesler - Linden/Cooke if they wanted to. My only reasoning of replacing the twins on the Canuck 2nd line is that we could make up a Arvedson - Chubarov - Linden line while using King & Cooke as Marleau's (or Morrison if Marleau was used with Naslund & Bertuzzi) wingers to add to our scoring & flip-flop those two lines as our #2 & #3 lines depending on the team we were playing.

I don't say this trade idea is likely, but it isn't unreasonable & I think could be tweaked to work if necessary to the benefit of both teams. Davison coming to the Canucks though, is a key ingrediate in making this trade work on a Canuck's view point. Without Davison's mean/stay at home defense being added, the Canucks give up too much defensive control in changing from a defensively aware #2 & #3 line to just one of those lines thinking defense first, offense second. The Canucks need to add a defensively minded defenseman as their defense is top heavy with offensively minded defensemen & defense prospects.

Hi-wayman 12-29-2003 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Von Shark
Marleau is finally starting to play at a consistent level. He's no longer a shy, timid perimeter player. Instead, he's goign into high traffic zones and using his size to his advantage. The Sharks would be crazy to trade Patrick Marleau right now, especially for the Sedin sisters.

Rob Davison has also proven to be more valuable to the Sharks than he would be in a trade. He is a solid, no non-sense physical dman, young and filled with drive. He's a keeper, for now.

You make a good arguement for the reasons the Sharks would not want to trade either Marleau or Davison, then you blow your total credibility by making a foolish derogatory remark about the Sedins. Whether the Sharks trade Marleau or not, it is players like the Sedins, Chubarov, Arvedson, Kesler & Linden that the Sharks could use more of. Your team has lots of good players & lots of good prospects, but the make up is not a good mix and they don't play like a team. They play far too individualistic to be a success in the near future. The Canucks & Calgary are examples the Sharks should be trying to immitate.

Volcanologist 12-29-2003 10:34 AM

The Sedins have five goals...COMBINED.

And you want Marleau? :lol:

SpinTheBlackCircle 12-29-2003 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
You make a good arguement for the reasons the Sharks would not want to trade either Marleau or Davison, then you blow your total credibility by making a foolish derogatory remark about the Sedins. Whether the Sharks trade Marleau or not, it is players like the Sedins, Chubarov, Arvedson, Kesler & Linden that the Sharks could use more of. Your team has lots of good players & lots of good prospects, but the make up is not a good mix and they don't play like a team. They play far too individualistic to be a success in the near future. The Canucks & Calgary are examples the Sharks should be trying to immitate.

Wow, you haven't seen a Sharks game all season, I can tell. The Sharks play EXACTLY like a team, which is why they are right there with Vancouver in goals against and in the top ten in the PK and PP.

The Sharks are in first BECAUSE they are playing like a team.

Ajacied 12-29-2003 11:02 AM

Close, though I'd say take out Marleau and its even better.. :joker:

Phaze 12-29-2003 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
The Sedins have five goals...COMBINED.

And you want Marleau? :lol:

The Sedins are the reason why King has 11 goals. Considering how many minutes they get per game (about 12), their production with King is pretty good. It would be nice to see them score more for sure, but they are playing decently and King would be nowhere without them. I am sure if they played with a good player in SJ, they would produce fairly well. The Sedins and Michalek, as someone already mentioned, would be a fantastic line for the future.
If this trade happened it would probably be a bad trade for both teams though, since the Sedins will only get better and could burn Vancouver, but SJ would lose alot of goal scoring and the best player in the trade.

Mr Brownstone 12-29-2003 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
How have the Sedins "talent" not amounted to a whole lot in the NHL?

What do they average? Maybe 30 points per season? Marleau is easily SJ's best player and there is no way in hell that him and Davison go for two kids who can't combined put up Marleau's numbers.

nordique 12-29-2003 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
You make a good arguement for the reasons the Sharks would not want to trade either Marleau or Davison, then you blow your total credibility by making a foolish derogatory remark about the Sedins. Whether the Sharks trade Marleau or not, it is players like the Sedins, Chubarov, Arvedson, Kesler & Linden that the Sharks could use more of. Your team has lots of good players & lots of good prospects, but the make up is not a good mix and they don't play like a team. They play far too individualistic to be a success in the near future. The Canucks & Calgary are examples the Sharks should be trying to immitate.

Tell me right now how Sedin + Sedin is a better duo than, say, Alyn McCauley and Wayne Primeau?

btmarshall 12-29-2003 05:08 PM

King started fast ... and hasn't scored in a month. No one talks about the guy in the same breath as Calder Trophy anymore. He had a hot streak. Many players do.

The Sedins do not have a great deal of trade value at present and are going to be Canucks for a while, at least until such time as they break out. Marleau has really turned it on this year, a significant part of the reason that SJ is in a tight division race with LA after a slow start to the season.

No one is going to convince anyone on this thread, but suffice it to say that the Sharks count Marleau as near to untouchable right now as it gets, without being overwhelmed with a proposal - and the Sedins do not come close to an overpayment. The Sharks would hang up, without a second thought.

btmarshall 12-29-2003 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super_Joe
Marleau in a Canucks jersey would be scary, he's awesome.

No less of a pipe dream though. He's not going to be traded, quite simply. This is merely wishful thinking from a fan.

Epsilon 12-29-2003 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresIn05
What do they average? Maybe 30 points per season? Marleau is easily SJ's best player and there is no way in hell that him and Davison go for two kids who can't combined put up Marleau's numbers.

Uh, you might want to look up the actual numbers.

Ender 12-29-2003 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
You make a good arguement for the reasons the Sharks would not want to trade either Marleau or Davison, then you blow your total credibility by making a foolish derogatory remark about the Sedins. Whether the Sharks trade Marleau or not, it is players like the Sedins, Chubarov, Arvedson, Kesler & Linden that the Sharks could use more of. Your team has lots of good players & lots of good prospects, but the make up is not a good mix and they don't play like a team. They play far too individualistic to be a success in the near future. The Canucks & Calgary are examples the Sharks should be trying to immitate.

Hey, that sound like it could be a trade - Ricci for Chubarov.

Marleau is the best Sharks (point wise) this seaosn, he is going to score more goals than the Sedins will points.

landshark 12-30-2003 12:25 AM

'Nuff said.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon
Uh, you might want to look up the actual numbers.

Uh, here's the numbers...


Henrik/Daniel DOB: 9/26/80
Patrick Marleau DOB: 9/15/79

GP G A PT
Patrick Marleau: 2002-03 San Jose Sharks NHL 82 28 29 57

Henrik Sedin: 2002-03 Vancouver Canucks NHL 78 8 31 39

Daniel Sedin: 2002-03 Vancouver Canucks NHL 79 14 17 31

NHL totals:

GP G A PTS
Patrick Marleau: NHL Totals 514 141 155 296

Henrik Sedin: NHL Totals 277 34 83 117

Daniel Sedin: NHL Totals 269 47 69 116

Now, before people go whining about the number of games Marleau has played as opposed to the Sedin's, here are Marleau's first three years in the NHL and NHL totals minus this year's numbers for the Sedin's.

Henrik Sedin: GP/238 G/33 A/71 Pts/104 VAN '00 - '03

Daniel Sedin: GP/233 G/43 A/54 Pts/97. VAN '00 - '03

Patrick Marleau: GP/236 G/51 A/66 Pts/117. SJ '97 - '00

I'd still take Marleau over two sets of Sedin's. Simply put, those numbers from the first three years for Marleau were with the Sharks. The Sharks, a then six year old expansion team.

Epsilon 12-30-2003 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landshark
Uh, here's the numbers...


Henrik/Daniel DOB: 9/26/80
Patrick Marleau DOB: 9/15/79

GP G A PT
Patrick Marleau: 2002-03 San Jose Sharks NHL 82 28 29 57

Henrik Sedin: 2002-03 Vancouver Canucks NHL 78 8 31 39

Daniel Sedin: 2002-03 Vancouver Canucks NHL 79 14 17 31

NHL totals:

GP G A PTS
Patrick Marleau: NHL Totals 514 141 155 296

Henrik Sedin: NHL Totals 277 34 83 117

Daniel Sedin: NHL Totals 269 47 69 116

Now, before people go whining about the number of games Marleau has played as opposed to the Sedin's, here are Marleau's first three years in the NHL and NHL totals minus this year's numbers for the Sedin's.

Henrik Sedin: GP/238 G/33 A/71 Pts/104 VAN '00 - '03

Daniel Sedin: GP/233 G/43 A/54 Pts/97. VAN '00 - '03

Patrick Marleau: GP/236 G/51 A/66 Pts/117. SJ '97 - '00

I'd still take Marleau over two sets of Sedin's. Simply put, those numbers from the first three years for Marleau were with the Sharks. The Sharks, a then six year old expansion team.

You just proved my point and didn't even make me waste the time of getting all those stats. Thanks.

Since when did Patrick Marleau become worthy of the praise being thrown around in this thread? He's beaten 50 points twice, and never hit 60 points. He's doing pretty well in terms of goals this season, but still on pace for about a 60 point campaign even if he keeps his pace up.

Ozy_Flame 12-30-2003 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon
You just proved my point and didn't even make me waste the time of getting all those stats. Thanks.

Since when did Patrick Marleau become worthy of the praise being thrown around in this thread? He's beaten 50 points twice, and never hit 60 points. He's doing pretty well in terms of goals this season, but still on pace for about a 60 point campaign even if he keeps his pace up.

Since when did the Sedins become such hot commodities? Like someone else said, 30 points per season. I don't see value in trading your #1 center (Marleau) for two checking line softies. Doesn't make sense.

Ender 12-30-2003 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon
You just proved my point and didn't even make me waste the time of getting all those stats. Thanks.

Since when did Patrick Marleau become worthy of the praise being thrown around in this thread? He's beaten 50 points twice, and never hit 60 points. He's doing pretty well in terms of goals this season, but still on pace for about a 60 point campaign even if he keeps his pace up.

Ya if he keeps up the pace he's had over the entire season so far, BUT if he keeps up the pace he has had since November he will surpass 40 goals and end up with over 65 or 70 points this year, in about 2 years he will be opening the 100 point door.


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