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-   -   col/nyi proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=40084)

DRL 01-01-2004 12:51 AM

col/nyi proposal
 
to col: cairns & snow

to nyi: boychuk & a pick

i believe both snow & cairns are impending ufa and would fill the avs most pressing needs, tough depth dman and veteran backup.

snow is playing really right now so i doubt he gets moved, but maybe near the deadline?

the rick should be the #1 sooner or later and i think snow is preventing him from achieving #1 status.

snow also been to the finals before which provides experience and leadership.

boychuk's a decent prospect but i dont know if he is what the isles need, which leads me to this question:

isles fans what would need in order to make this trade work?

Verbal Kint* 01-01-2004 01:20 AM

I can see this at the trade deadline if NYI isn't making the post season. However giving up their best "tough" defenceman and arguably their NO. 1 goaltender for a prospect and a pick. Somehow I find that unlikely. Add a 4th/borderline 3rd line player to the mix for the Av's and I can see it happening.

Legionnaire 01-01-2004 02:16 AM

Question. Does snow get to wear his "armor" when he plays for Colorado? If not, I ask why? From either teams perspective.

It would leave the Ricker as the sole and only focus for the Isles, which in the end could make him even less valuable than Boychuck.

For the Avs: Why would you give up a potential solid top for Dman for a backup goalie and a poorly skating thug?

Belgian Fan 01-01-2004 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Question. Does snow get to wear his "armor" when he plays for Colorado? If not, I ask why? From either teams perspective.

It would leave the Ricker as the sole and only focus for the Isles, which in the end could make him even less valuable than Boychuck.

For the Avs: Why would you give up a potential solid top for Dman for a backup goalie and a poorly skating thug?

Boychuk probaly not going to be a 'top' D man but probably more of a #3 or #4 if he pans out.

The idea is that the Avs will try to get their hand on a veteran backup goalie for the Playoffs. Everybody seems to be set on the idea that Aebi will get to start, but at the same time evryone tinks PL will be looking for some insurance should Abby go down and not be left with Sauve to carry us in the playoffs.
As for Cairns, he seems to be popular amongst Avs fans these days, even though I for one am not really sold on the idea that he will improve us much...

And I'm also thinking that the next move of the PL will have rather Skoula leaving Colorado than another prospect, I think his time is up...

Legionnaire 01-01-2004 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
Boychuk probaly not going to be a 'top' D man but probably more of a #3 or #4 if he pans out.

The idea is that the Avs will try to get their hand on a veteran backup goalie for the Playoffs. Everybody seems to be set on the idea that Aebi will get to start, but at the same time evryone tinks PL will be looking for some insurance should Abby go down and not be left with Sauve to carry us in the playoffs.
As for Cairns, he seems to be popular amongst Avs fans these days, even though I for one am not really sold on the idea that he will improve us much...

And I'm also thinking that the next move of the PL will have rather Skoula leaving Colorado than another prospect, I think his time is up...

Fair enough, but there was a lot to be said about Foote during the same time of his development.

Honestly, when the Avs look back(and I don't like the Avs) look back, they will look back and say-why did we trade him

Darth Milbury 01-01-2004 07:08 AM

Honestly, I don't think either team would do this. Snow has been great as of late, and is the main reason that the Isles have done so well over the last 10 games. He is the only vet goaltender in the system and a key guy is they hope to make the playoffs. So, Isles are very unlikely to trade him.

On the other hand, COL is very unlikely to even want him. Snow has been hot, but under usual circumstances, he is a mediocre goalie and not a true number 1 on a contender by any stretch of the imagination. Not the sort of guy you sacrifice a nice young prospect for. DRL's offer for Snow is too generous, from COL's perspective at least.


Cairns has little to no trade value. But, he is worth more to the Isles than he would return.

Tiki 01-01-2004 07:32 AM

[QUOTE=DRL]to col: cairns & snow

to nyi: boychuk & a pick

QUOTE]

Not a chance from the Isles. We've won 6 in a row and and Snow has been in net for all of them.Why mess with a good thing? If the Isles belive they can make some noise in the playoff's I would bet they hang on to Snow.

Carins is 29 and makes 900k. He is a couple of years away from UFA status barring a lowering of the age in a new CBA. He's getting decent ice time as a #6 and is one of the top fighters in the league.

Unless the Isles really need to slash more payroll, they don't go anywhere near this trade.

bleedgreen 01-01-2004 08:55 AM

i know everyone thinks the avs will acquire a goalie before the deadline. my quetion this far into the season is ...why? has Aebisher not done his part? i think he has played awesome, but either way why would Snow be an upgrade? even as a back-up his presence alone would do nothing but create controversy in who starts every night. if the avs get anyone, it has to be a bona-fide starter whose presence over aebisher is unquestioned. the way he has played this season, even burke, kolzig and khabi are only more experienced-not necessarily better.

Jones23 01-01-2004 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRL
to col: cairns & snow

to nyi: boychuk & a pick

Isles can't go with DiPietro and Kochan!

I also believe that Cairns and Snow are probably the two most respected guys in the lockeroom.

I'd hope the Isles are interested in winning right now!...this deal does nothing to help now.

Darth Milbury 01-01-2004 09:06 AM

[QUOTE=Tiki]
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRL
to col: cairns & snow

to nyi: boychuk & a pick

QUOTE]

Not a chance from the Isles. We've won 6 in a row and and Snow has been in net for all of them.Why mess with a good thing? If the Isles belive they can make some noise in the playoff's I would bet they hang on to Snow.

Carins is 29 and makes 900k. He is a couple of years away from UFA status barring a lowering of the age in a new CBA. He's getting decent ice time as a #6 and is one of the top fighters in the league.

Unless the Isles really need to slash more payroll, they don't go anywhere near this trade.

I think Cairns is an UFA this summer, but I can't recall all the details.

Jones23 01-01-2004 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I think Cairns is an UFA this summer, but I can't recall all the details.

Isn't it because he makes under the league average? :dunno:

Darth Milbury 01-01-2004 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPeca
Isn't it because he makes under the league average? :dunno:


I think so, but in all honesty, I'm not sure.

Tiki 01-01-2004 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPeca
Isn't it because he makes under the league average? :dunno:

The rule, I belive, is under league average pay and you have to have 10 years of NHL experince. As of this year he has played in the NHL in 8 different seasons.

Still, he could somehow become a UFA, but it would have to be a strange rule I know nothing about.

DRL 01-01-2004 11:14 AM

[QUOTE=Tiki]
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRL
to col: cairns & snow

to nyi: boychuk & a pick

QUOTE]

Not a chance from the Isles. We've won 6 in a row and and Snow has been in net for all of them.Why mess with a good thing? If the Isles belive they can make some noise in the playoff's I would bet they hang on to Snow.

Carins is 29 and makes 900k. He is a couple of years away from UFA status barring a lowering of the age in a new CBA. He's getting decent ice time as a #6 and is one of the top fighters in the league.

Unless the Isles really need to slash more payroll, they don't go anywhere near this trade.


yeah thats pretty much what i stated in my 1st post, snow is too crucial to the isles playoff chances to deal him right now, but maybe at the deadline if they are not in it?

another poster worried about aebi becoming worried about a veteran backup> like another said snow and cairns are great team guys and would have no problem getting few minutes or sitting in order for the team to win.

the reason i offered boychuk is because our forwards prospects are weak, while we have a strong d men prospects with foote, blake, liles, morris and skoula all capable of at least 5 more years.

i'd also like to keep skoula and have him and cairns battle it out for the #6 spot or play which player better suits the opponent, ie if u need toughness play cairns etc.

our top 4 is set with blake-foote-morris-skrastins,

whereas skoula and liles and for that matter cairns would all be question marks.

liles: is he to small for the playoff grind?
skoula: will his mental errors cost us a playoff game?
cairns: is he too slow for the fast paced west. conference?

so having 3 qualified 5-6 defensemen would only help the coaching staff make easier decisions.

Trottier 01-01-2004 11:30 AM

Colorado has a better chance of reaching their goal (the Cup) with their current netminder than with Snow. (Much better chance than with most goalies in the league, in fact.) If your #1 goes down, chances are, so does your chances disappear, regardless of who is your backup.

Likewise, from a continuity perspective, no way does NYI move two character guys from its team. They are much more valuable than their statistics suggest. Snow battles every night, and if the team in front of him plays well (as they are doing now), he wins. Likewise, Cairns is the Isles enforcer, arguably as good as anyone there is.

Isles aren't disappearing anytime soon from the playoff hunt, they are not going backward into a youth movement, so all talk of such can be put to rest.

Milbury and company will deal -if/when they deal - to improve this core nearer-term, not rebuild. Thankfully.

Aerolanche 01-01-2004 11:33 AM

No Snow, thanks. I'd rather have Sauve by FAR. If the Avs are going to trade a goalie (not that I want it to happen at all) its going to be Aebischer. He does not want to share time with another goalie on this team.

bleedgreen 01-01-2004 09:11 PM

nobody's convinced me yet of a reason for the av's even wanting either of these guys. they do need more d, but i assume that d would have to be better than the current 5-7 guys. cairns is tough, but better than skoula and liles? i know skoula is everyones fave whipping boy-but hes still young, has improved every year, and is far more experienced in cup runs than cairns. the snow issue is a non issue, the avs dont need a backup (which is what he would be there)- they need a starter with credentials worthy of benching aebischer. neither of these guys push this team over the top. why would they give up a solid prospect for that. lacroix wants people he thinks will help him win the cup, not cast offs from other teams fishing for the avs better prospects. if he thought they were short of scoring, i could see parrish. if he thought they were short on d, i could see hamrlik or ninnimaa. those are lacroix-type moves (battaglia's the exception). i could see boychuck going for one of those defenseman. thats about it.

Belgian Fan 01-01-2004 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedgreen
i know skoula is everyones fave whipping boy-but hes still young, has improved every year, and is far more experienced in cup runs than cairns.

Not that I'm pleading for the Avs to get Cairns (as I said earlier in this thread), but your comments about Skoula are a bit of the mark.

Skoula hasn't progressed the least over the past few seasons, in fact he has actually regressed.
He was very impressive in his Rookie season and was also very good in his first two playoff runs.
But after that it's gone downhill with him. He can't seem to cut down on his errors in the defensive zone, and we all know that the first task of a defender is being solid in his own zone. Well, Skoula just isn't capable of doing that at the moment, and it's been like that for some time. I don't see enough games for a complete analysis but you should just ask some of the guys over at the Avs borad and you'll get a detailed description of every error he makes in every game. (he's the whipping boy as you know :))

He probably still has potential, but if he wants to fulfill it, he'll have to be quick. Maybe all he needs is a ticket out of town, who knows...

bleedgreen 01-01-2004 09:50 PM

i live colorado. i see ALL the games. hes just not that bad. everyone says he is has regressed- ithink they expect too much too soon. what is he 23? im not from colorado originally and dont have a lot of respect for the local fans, so im not really concerned about the postings on that board. they hate skoula. last year they hated tanguay, they hated deadmarsh! if sakic is in a slump, they want to trade him! there's no patience in a town handed the cup its first year. will skoula ever be an allstar...no. but i always think its a mistake to give up on young d, not to mention what does the d look like if there is a lockout. both foote and blake are older, injury-prone and not a sure thing to come back after a year off. what does that leave them with? skoula will be a very important piece then, and will be coming to proper age to really assess if he was worth the wait. i think most teams in the league would say he still has value. hes been deep in the playoffs multiple times with bourque, blake, foote, and morris. its bound to pay off eventually and im positive eric cairns isnt a significant upgrade. especially for a boychuck, who will be equally important in a season or two. lacroix always has aan eye on the future.


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