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Verbal Kint* 01-01-2004 10:18 AM

Defencemen Value
 
Since I always hopelessly homer in proposals what would the Leafs need to give up in order to get:

Mattias Norstrom
Mike Rathje
Alexiei Zhitnik
Adrian Aucoin/Roman Hamrlik
Sergei Gonchar
Bryan Leetch
Keith Carney
Darryl Sydor
Eric Brewer

There, no more homering.

Unless STL is willing to give up Pronger for a fourth round pick :joker:

Darth Milbury 01-01-2004 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Since I always hopelessly homer in proposals what would the Leafs need to give up in order to get:

Mattias Norstrom
Mike Rathje
Alexiei Zhitnik
Adrian Aucoin/Roman Hamrlik
Sergei Gonchar
Bryan Leetch
Keith Carney
Darryl Sydor
Eric Brewer

There, no more homering.

Unless STL is willing to give up Pronger for a fourth round pick :joker:


What makes you think that all of those players are available? I can assure you, for example, that Aucoin is not going to be dealt at any reasonable price and Hamrlik will not be moved until the Isles are clearly out of contention for a playoff spot. There is also no way that LA trades Norstrom or the Rangers trade Leetch, The Leafs have no real shot at about half those players, and they'd have to overpay badly to get some of the others.

The most likely outcome for the Leafs is that they run with what they have (which, btw, happens to be one of the best teams in the league) and then try and add an impending UFA type at the deadline.

Verbal Kint* 01-01-2004 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
What makes you think that all of those players are available? I can assure you, for example, that Aucoin is not going to be dealt at any reasonable price and Hamrlik will not be moved until the Isles are clearly out of contention for a playoff spot. There is also no way that LA trades Norstrom or the Rangers trade Leetch, The Leafs have no real shot at about half those players, and they'd have to overpay badly to get some of the others.

The most likely outcome for the Leafs is that they run with what they have (which, btw, happens to be one of the best teams in the league) and then try and add an impending UFA type at the deadline.

Completely agree Darth, however I'd like to see what our options are. Norstrom was kind of a dream if LA sinks to the 9th/10th spot, and the mention of Leetch was just because of some talk last year near the deadline that he may wave his no-trade clause.

Either way, I'd still like a good look at the possibilities.

willie 01-01-2004 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Since I always hopelessly homer in proposals what would the Leafs need to give up in order to get:

Mattias Norstrom

We'll give you Norstrom if you give us Sundin because, honestly, it would take a huge overpayment to get Norstrom out of LA.

Peter Griffin 01-01-2004 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Alexiei Zhitnik

Pick/prospect if the Sabres are out of the playoffs at the deadline. I can see him being traded for a 2nd round pick.

Quote:

Adrian Aucoin/Roman Hamrlik
A goal scoring winger. Don't really see Toronto having anything the Isles would want.


Quote:

Sergei Gonchar
If Washington decides to move him at the deadline for picks/prospects,
then something centered around Carlo Colaicovo with an NHL d-man going to other way.


Quote:

Bryan Leetch
Untouchable IMO.

Quote:

Keith Carney
Same as Zhitnik if Anaheim is out of the playoffs at the deadline.

Quote:

Darryl Sydor
Not sure on this one.

Quote:

Eric Brewer
Nik Antropov would have to be going to Edmonton.

Jovavic 01-01-2004 05:22 PM

Second rounder for Sydor. Deal could be expanded if the Leafs wanted someone like Sanderson or Cassels to help the depth for the playoffs.

TVanek26* 01-01-2004 05:47 PM

Well, last year Regier was intent on Colaiacovo, while Quinn was supposedly offering Tucker from what I read.I think Regier would take Tucker and a 3rd or 4th for Zhitnik, but not right now.There are faint playoff hopes for the Sabres, and will only change when the Sabres have no chance at the playoffs (Deadline)

And for Brewer, Ferguson would have to send Carlo Colaiacovo for Brewer.Antropov is so injury prone and really isn't that impressive to me, while Brewer is a top young defenseman.

Fighter 01-01-2004 05:50 PM

Not a chance that Anaheim will give away Carney for a second round pick since he's our best d-men and a leader.

I think he's not going anywhere if ANA don't reach another big d-men. Keep in mind that besides Popovic, the Ducks lack in good d-men prospects.

Gibsons Finest 01-01-2004 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin

Brian Leetch-Untouchable IMO.



Keith Carney-Same as Zhitnik if Anaheim is out of the playoffs at the deadline.



So you mean to tell me that Leetch is untouchable, but Keith Carney, one of the best d-men to ever don the Duck, will go for a prospect or pick at the deadline? Keep dreaming.

Just goes to show you how underrated Keith Carney is.

willie 01-01-2004 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
don the Duck

Priceless expression. :joker:

Sammy* 01-01-2004 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
So you mean to tell me that Leetch is untouchable, but Keith Carney, one of the best d-men to ever don the Duck, will go for a prospect or pick at the deadline? Keep dreaming.

Just goes to show you how underrated Keith Carney is.

Are you somehow suggesting Carney & Leetch are somehow equivalent?

Jerky Leclerc 01-01-2004 06:15 PM

With the contracts Anaheim gave Fedorov, Prospal, Rucchin, and Giguere, the Ducks don't plan to rebuild any time soon. So there is no way they would give up Carney. The guy is the most valuable player on the team and IMO one of the main reason why Anaheim got to the Stanley Cup last year. Fortunately for the Ducks, Carney still got one more year left on his contract after this season.

Gibsons Finest 01-01-2004 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy
Are you somehow suggesting Carney & Leetch are somehow equivalent?

Somehow equivalent? Leetch is old and overpaid. Carney is THE most underrated d-man in the game. They may not be exact, but there is no way Carney is closer to Zhitnik than Leetch.

Gibsons Finest 01-01-2004 06:24 PM

Mattias Norstrom-Don't think he's available
Mike Rathje-I'd say a pick or something, maybe a d-man going back too
Alexiei Zhitnik-2nd rounder at the deadline(if Sabres out of playoffs)
Adrian Aucoin/Roman Hamrlik-A good winger
Sergei Gonchar-Coliacavo and something; Colo could be changed to Bell or Hedin if surounding package was upped
Bryan Leetch-He'll always be a Ranger
Keith Carney-UNTOUCHABLE
Darryl Sydor-CBS fan said 2nd rounder, so I'll go with that
Eric Brewer-Bell/Hedin package

FacelessButcher 01-01-2004 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
So you mean to tell me that Leetch is untouchable, but Keith Carney, one of the best d-men to ever don the Duck, will go for a prospect or pick at the deadline? Keep dreaming.

Just goes to show you how underrated Keith Carney is.

funny just 2 and half years ago Carney was traded for exactly that a second round pick(although a better one then Toronto's) but I do concur given the Ducks are not rebuilding and very much need what he brings to the team he is without a doubt untradeable under current circumstances. Jason Smith on the other hand might be available for the right price(not just a second pick ;)) and plays a very similair game to Carney.

Darth Milbury 01-01-2004 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Mattias Norstrom-Don't think he's available

Adrian Aucoin/Roman Hamrlik-A good winger

No.

The Isles have shown little intrest in trading dmen for wingers and Aucoin is not going to be traded either way.

You've basically argued that Keith Carney is some sort of untouchable stud dman, and then in the same post you assume that higher-level players like Aucoin, Hamrlik, Brewer, etc, could be had relatively easily. Aucoin and Hamrlik are every bit as vaulable to the Isles as Carney is to the Ducks, and they're aren't going to be moved for just a "good winger."

Peter Griffin 01-02-2004 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
So you mean to tell me that Leetch is untouchable, but Keith Carney, one of the best d-men to ever don the Duck, will go for a prospect or pick at the deadline? Keep dreaming.

Just goes to show you how underrated Keith Carney is.

Leetch is one of the best d-men to play the game over the last decade and one of few New York Ranger players that actually gives a damn. Leetch is the face of the New York Rangers, he'll retire in New York. Carney is a soon-to-be UFA on a non-playoff club. If the Ducks are out of the playoff hunt at the deadline, I can see them trading Carney for something like a pick/prospect. If they re-sign him before the deadline or are in the playoffs, they don't trade him. What's so hard to believe? I can't believe you are actually comparing the two situations...

Peter Griffin 01-02-2004 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Somehow equivalent? Leetch is old and overpaid. Carney is THE most underrated d-man in the game. They may not be exact, but there is no way Carney is closer to Zhitnik than Leetch.

You put Ducks players on a pedestal, don't you? Carney is a UFA, just like Alexei Zhitnik. The Ducks are a non-playoff team, just like the Sabres. If the Ducks don't sign Carney before the trade deadline, why won't they trade him to get at least some return on him? They can always re-sign him in the offseason just like Carolina did with Glen Wesley. You're acting like Carney is some high profile, stud d-man that has spent his entire career with the Ducks and trading him at the deadline would be a slap in the face. You could say that about Brian Leecth, but Keith Carney, give me a break...

SingnBluesOnBroadway 01-02-2004 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Somehow equivalent? Leetch is old and overpaid. Carney is THE most underrated d-man in the game. They may not be exact, but there is no way Carney is closer to Zhitnik than Leetch.


Old and overpaid. OK.....

2/3 of the league is overpaid.

And old? I'll refer you to Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens, and Chris Chelios. All three are older than Leetch and have played stellar hockey into their 40s. Leetch remains an elite defenseman who can dominate a game. He has lost a step defensively but he is still a top blueliner.

Darth Milbury 01-02-2004 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Old and overpaid. OK.....

2/3 of the league is overpaid.

And old? I'll refer you to Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens, and Chris Chelios. All three are older than Leetch and have played stellar hockey into their 40s. Leetch remains an elite defenseman who can dominate a game. He has lost a step defensively but he is still a top blueliner.


Its also sort of daft to compare Carney to Leetch. Leetch is an elite player, one of the best dmen in the league over the last two decades. Carney is a very solid defensive dman but he'd be a #4/#5 on some teams. Carney is nowhere near Leetch's class.

Ajacied 01-02-2004 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Ozzie X
Second rounder for Sydor. Deal could be expanded if the Leafs wanted someone like Sanderson or Cassels to help the depth for the playoffs.

How has he been though? Cause Stars fans are still moaning about him, and we'd like to have him back. I would deal your very own 2nd rounder back for Darryl, too bad it won't happen due to salary problems.

NFITO 01-02-2004 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Somehow equivalent? Leetch is old and overpaid. Carney is THE most underrated d-man in the game. They may not be exact, but there is no way Carney is closer to Zhitnik than Leetch.

boy reading that it seems more like he's THE most OVERrated d-man in the game!!

Carney is a good #4 dman... but to mention him with the likes of Leetch is ridiculous... Zhitnik is a decent #2 dman IMO, and better overall than Carney is.

Out of that original list, I'd say that Carney is at the bottom of the list (albiet it's a pretty talented list there).

SabresRule 01-02-2004 09:41 AM

Alexiei Zhitnik is the only 1 i can tell for, his avalable at the right price, so's every1 tho. not specifically avaiable. ok enough rambling and BS.

imho his worth a top 2 defender of a first line forward.

his a puck moving, hitting defensman who plays no.1 minutes effeciantly, most of the time. and he can now hit the net.

NFITO 01-02-2004 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresRule
Alexiei Zhitnik is the only 1 i can tell for, his avalable at the right price, so's every1 tho. not specifically avaiable. ok enough rambling and BS.

imho his worth a top 2 defender of a first line forward.

his a puck moving, hitting defensman who plays no.1 minutes effeciantly, most of the time. and he can now hit the net.

isn't he an UFA after this season??

can't be worth a top 2 defender or a 1st line forward if so... I'd guess more so a 2nd round pick and/or a decent prospect.

SabresRule 01-02-2004 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
isn't he an UFA after this season??

can't be worth a top 2 defender or a 1st line forward if so... I'd guess more so a 2nd round pick and/or a decent prospect.

yeh, he is, but the sabres arnt gonna take another run at him. but true, im talking his true worth tho, not inc. UFA status.


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