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-   -   Stop Overrating Hossa (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=402229)

BRONX_MADNESS* 07-17-2007 02:37 PM

Stop Overrating Hossa
 
The guy put up a few points, for a few games, with JAROMIR JAGR. His career highs are 10 goals, 8 apples, and 18 points playing 64 games in the NHL. If he had as much skill as many of you posit, he'd have been a 20 goal scorer for years now. Please silence yourselves, talk of him being a 1st line wing is ridiculous. An AHL call up such as dawes would be a very positive makeover, I mean Hossa has yet to score 20 goals IN THE AHL. He's dispensable, and you should want him gone. End of story.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 07-17-2007 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRONX_MADNESS (Post 9946996)
The guy put up a few points, for a few games, with JAROMIR JAGR. His career highs are 10 goals, 8 apples, and 18 points playing 64 games in the NHL. If he had as much skill as many of you posit, he'd have been a 20 goal scorer for years now. Please silence yourselves, talk of him being a 1st line wing is ridiculous. An AHL call up such as dawes would be a very positive makeover, I mean Hossa has yet to score 20 goals IN THE AHL. He's dispensable, and you should want him gone. End of story.

I tend to agree. I have seen a few line suggestions where people want to play two, better players out of position (Straka as 1st line Center and Drury as 3rd line Center) just so Hossa can get a spot on the first line.

NYROrtsFan 07-17-2007 02:44 PM

I have hated Hossa for a while, but for that stretch there, he was one of the better players on the ice.

And it wasn't because of Jagr. It was even the smaller period of time before they put him on the first line.

blue2noise 07-17-2007 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRONX_MADNESS (Post 9946996)
The guy put up a few points, for a few games, with JAROMIR JAGR. His career highs are 10 goals, 8 apples, and 18 points playing 64 games in the NHL. If he had as much skill as many of you posit, he'd have been a 20 goal scorer for years now. Please silence yourselves, talk of him being a 1st line wing is ridiculous. An AHL call up such as dawes would be a very positive makeover, I mean Hossa has yet to score 20 goals IN THE AHL. He's dispensable, and you should want him gone. End of story.

And who are you to tell anyone to silence themselves? The people who like Hossa have just as much of a right to talk as you.

Deal with it.

I hate people who say "end of story" like their argument was so awesome. :shakehead

NYR1724 07-17-2007 02:49 PM

I'm not saying that Hossa is better than Gomez or Drury, but what I am saying is that there is a possibility that Gomez and Drury do not play well with Jagr and vice versa. It would be stupid for the Rangers to not try Hossa and Straka with Jagr if god forbid Gomez or Drury cannot play with JJ.

Nich 07-17-2007 02:51 PM

hossa is a little over rated, but there was the period of time he was one of the best players on the ice on the 3rd line. i don't know about 1st line minutes, but i do think he deserves another contract to see if he can build on his success.

Renney=Savior* 07-17-2007 02:55 PM

Hossa's decent nothing more.

Geogaddi 07-17-2007 02:58 PM

For what he does i think hes a bit under-appreciated. Hes almost like malik sometimes when it comes to having a scapegoat around here. Yes he filled in Nicely when he played with Jagr, but there is no reason to have him on that top line. 3rd or 4th line is where we can gain a bit of a suprise offense from Marcel. With Cullen and Ortmeyer gone, Hossa is 2nd i think behind Betts for best PKers. The guy does have his spot on the team, but its not first line at all.

ZenBaja 07-17-2007 03:00 PM

I'm not overrating him. All I want is to see one more year of him to completely decide if he can breakout, or if he is a complete flash in the pan.

Don't get me wrong - he's a project for sure. If he goes to another team, I don't see him ever breaking out. However, he had about a month on this team under Renney, that was one of the best streaks in the NHL last year - just before the injury. Given his young age, don't you want to see if that was just luck or if there's something more? He's not getting paid much to find out. -Z

Larry Melnyk 07-17-2007 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRONX_MADNESS (Post 9946996)
The guy put up a few points, for a few games, with JAROMIR JAGR. His career highs are 10 goals, 8 apples, and 18 points playing 64 games in the NHL. If he had as much skill as many of you posit, he'd have been a 20 goal scorer for years now. Please silence yourselves, talk of him being a 1st line wing is ridiculous. An AHL call up such as dawes would be a very positive makeover, I mean Hossa has yet to score 20 goals IN THE AHL. He's dispensable, and you should want him gone. End of story.

Maybe your fictional story. But if you want to deal with reality, the reality is that Renney loves Hossa, Jagr likes playing with Hossa, Hossa has played on the 1st line with Jagr, and the line played pretty succesful with Hossa on it using his big body before he got hurt late last year. So, to not think that Hossa has a chance of playing on a top line with Jagr is assinine.

None of that means I think Hossa is a top line player. IMO he is not. I still think he has yet to prove that he is a consistent 2nd or 3rd liner, let alone a first line. ANd he has yet to really produce much as far as goals. But there is some talent and skill there to go with some size and an increased willingness to use it (not neccessarily big hits but being physical). And he matches/plays well with Jagr. It will probably be Straka with Gomez and Jagr but Hossa is still a real possibility all things being considered for this team..

MisterUnspoken 07-17-2007 03:16 PM

The Annual Hossa Bashing Thread has commenced... this should be good...

This is always my favorite thread of the offseason.

Hossa plays on the PK rather effectively, Hossa is not a top line player, but he's a very very good utility player who CAN play on a top line OR grind it out on the bottom lines without missing a beat.

He's going to be on the team whether anyone wants him or not. Renney likes players who can fill multiple roles.

patnyrnyg 07-17-2007 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRONX_MADNESS (Post 9946996)
The guy put up a few points, for a few games, with JAROMIR JAGR. His career highs are 10 goals, 8 apples, and 18 points playing 64 games in the NHL. If he had as much skill as many of you posit, he'd have been a 20 goal scorer for years now. Please silence yourselves, talk of him being a 1st line wing is ridiculous. An AHL call up such as dawes would be a very positive makeover, I mean Hossa has yet to score 20 goals IN THE AHL. He's dispensable, and you should want him gone. End of story.

He can be productive when given ice time and is a great insurance policy for when guys from the top-6 go down with a small injury and have to miss a game or two. He can also play all 4 lines and be effective. Not great, but effective.

rodmunch 07-17-2007 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken (Post 9947465)
The Annual Hossa Bashing Thread has commenced... this should be good...

This is always my favorite thread of the offseason.

Hossa plays on the PK rather effectively, Hossa is not a top line player, but he's a very very good utility player who CAN play on a top line OR grind it out on the bottom lines without missing a beat.

He's going to be on the team whether anyone wants him or not. Renney likes players who can fill multiple roles.

Exactly

I for one used to loathe Hossa, but Renney has really turned him into a pretty useful player.

He can play the bottom lines and PK very well, and can also step into the top six in a pinch if needed

He may inferior to his brother, but he is a good player

nyrcallahan24 07-17-2007 03:27 PM

When hossa plays with Jags he is really good. If those two played two on two with any other team (2) they would probably win. Hossa has the size, he scores when you give him the chance, he's really good at pk's and he was the best scorer for us last year in the shoot out. Next year everyone will be saying "we got the good Hossa", unlike two years ago when every body was saying "I hope Sather knows we got the wrong Hossa" He can do great things. He just needs a chance.

Voice of Reason 07-17-2007 03:29 PM

Would you guys go so far as to call him a younger Sergei Brylin? Plays where asked, does a good job but nothing spectacular and possesses enough of a scoring threat . If Hossa could perform like that, he'll end up with a nice long career and maybe a Cup or two.

nyrcallahan24 07-17-2007 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason (Post 9947574)
Would you guys go so far as to call him a younger Sergei Brylin? Plays where asked, does a good job but nothing spectacular and possesses enough of a scoring threat . If Hossa could perform like that, he'll end up with a nice long career and maybe a Cup or two.

Hossa is almost there. all he needs to do is have more of a scoring threat ;)

BwayBshirt 07-17-2007 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRONX_MADNESS (Post 9946996)
The guy put up a few points, for a few games, with JAROMIR JAGR. His career highs are 10 goals, 8 apples, and 18 points playing 64 games in the NHL. If he had as much skill as many of you posit, he'd have been a 20 goal scorer for years now. Please silence yourselves, talk of him being a 1st line wing is ridiculous. An AHL call up such as dawes would be a very positive makeover, I mean Hossa has yet to score 20 goals IN THE AHL. He's dispensable, and you should want him gone. End of story.

oh dear lord this again...

let's ask this...can dawes be as versatile EVER in his career as marcel is right now? likely not.

goal scoring and stats are not the be-all, end-all.

nyrcallahan24 07-17-2007 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWayBShirt (Post 9947613)
oh dear lord this again...

let's ask this...can dawes be as versatile EVER in his career as marcel is right now? likely not.

goal scoring and stats are not the be-all, end-all.

yah. He has good size, and he's extremely good in the shoot outs.

True Blue 07-17-2007 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 9947060)
I tend to agree. I have seen a few line suggestions where people want to play two, better players out of position (Straka as 1st line Center and Drury as 3rd line Center) just so Hossa can get a spot on the first line.

Therein lie most of my issues. I do not like or dislike him, I just think that there are much better options for the top-3 lines. People cite how well he played with Jagr for 11 games, but Jagr even made Isbister look decent. Why are there no calls for him to be brought back? And people forget just how well Prucha looked there.

Playing Avery or Straka out of position just so that Hossa can play with Jagr is ludicrous. So too is playing Avery or Prucha on the 4th line, just so that Hossa can get a spot on the top-3 lines. Frankly, I do not see how either of these statements can be construed to be Hossa-bashing.

BwayBshirt 07-17-2007 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason (Post 9947574)
Would you guys go so far as to call him a younger Sergei Brylin? Plays where asked, does a good job but nothing spectacular and possesses enough of a scoring threat . If Hossa could perform like that, he'll end up with a nice long career and maybe a Cup or two.


the way i see it on this particular team his strength in the corners with the puck (when healthy as he was clearly was not after the knee injury) and his pk are certainly valuable. needed is a different question, but valuable.

True Blue 07-17-2007 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason (Post 9947574)
Would you guys go so far as to call him a younger Sergei Brylin? Plays where asked, does a good job but nothing spectacular and possesses enough of a scoring threat .

Absolutely not. Becuase the fact of the matter, unless you are pointing to short periods of time that have been the exception, as opposed to the rule, he cannot be considered "enough of a scoring threat".
Quote:

If Hossa could perform like that, he'll end up with a nice long career and maybe a Cup or two.
He has yet to show that he can play on such a level. Here is his synopsis....Hossa plays outstanding for a 10 games. Scores some goals. Then, the goals stop coming, but he still plays well-enough for a handfull of games. Then, his play promptly drops off a cliff to the level of no better than a 4th liner for a period of several months. He gets benched. He comes back and plays great again for a period of 10 games. Then he promptly disappears. And so on and so on and so on.

NYR94 07-17-2007 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway (Post 9947060)
I tend to agree. I have seen a few line suggestions where people want to play two, better players out of position (Straka as 1st line Center and Drury as 3rd line Center) just so Hossa can get a spot on the first line.

Yeah, some of those line combos are a bit strange. The only thing that really matters is how it affects the Rangers winning--will they win more games with Hossa on the first line with Jagr, or do they win more with Straka there and Hossa on a grinding line. Something tells me the Straka-Jagr connection should not be disrupted.

Hossa scored at a 50+ goal pace with Jagr. Is it realistic to expect him to match that over the course of an entire season? Of course not. More realistically, can he match/exceed the 25 goals Straka has averaged playing there? Jagr liked playing with Hossa, but does he like it enough to say goodbye to Straka on his line? He's already lost Nylander. And I don't know how the move would affect Straka's production. He plays very well with Jagr already. Hossa has more size than Straka, that's clear, but I don't think he's much of an upgrade defensively over Straka.

Fletch 07-17-2007 04:05 PM

Nyr...
 
I agree - I tend to think that so long as Straka's here, he is best-suited to play with Jagr. I think his play diminishes while not playing with Jagr, and his replacements aren't better than him on that line. With the Rangers breaking in a new centerman for Jagr, it may be best, at least to start, to have one familiar set of skates on that line.

Hossa did look good. Many argue so did Isbister. One can make a case that Straka and Prucha played well there too. In the end, if Jagr's healthy, he can make a lot of people look good on that line.

Inferno 07-17-2007 04:15 PM

the thing i like about hossa is that Jagr genuinely likes the kid, and WANTS him on his line. this allows the wealth to be distributed more to the lower lines.

with that said, i still play hossa on the 4th since i just dont see a way of getting him on the top line unless dubinsky just doesnt make this team.

ArtieAnisimov 07-17-2007 04:26 PM

Hossa is a good player, I'm not going to say whether he is great or not until this season starts and see how he is playing. But I don't think he deserves to be on the top line.


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