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Oiltalk 01-06-2004 02:02 AM

Trade immenent?
 
It's funny how a few injuries, and people coming back from injuries can change the outlook of a team substantially. We lose Reasoner to injury and pick up Oates. Smith and Cross both go down, neither placed on IR, yet the Oilers sign Ulanov, and recall Bergeron.

Forwards

Centers: Reasoner, Stoll, Horcoff, Oates, York
RW: Isbister, Dvorak, Hemsky, Pisani, Laraque
LW: Smyth, Torres, Chimera, Moreau

Defence

Brewer, Smith, Cross, Ferguson, Staios, Semenov, Bergeron, Luoma, Ulanov

Yesterdays lineup.

Smyth - Oates - Isbister
Torres - York - Dvorak
Moreau - Horcoff - Hemsky
Chimera - Stoll - Pisani

Brewer - Staios
Ulanov - Ferguson
Bergeron - Semenov

Healthy scratches: Laraque, Luoma

Looking at the above lineup one would think a Center must be dealt. Sure York can play LW, but I don't see Chimera heading to the pressbox and Torres, one of the only guys in the lineup that can score, moving down to the 4th line. The Rightside is pretty much set in terms of players staying in the lineup. Pisani will once again be a key player to the checking line.

Now the defence is tricky. Brewer and Staios are our top two dman on the current roster. Ulanov is showing early signs of being a mainstay in the lineup. Ferguson...Well he is a decent depth guy. Bergeron and Semenov are two future keys to the backend.

I now ask what happens when Smith, Cross, and Reasoner return to the lineup? Does Luoma go back down, still leaving us with one dman to worry about? Could always trade Ferguson for a late rounder, but is it in the books?
If that scenario works the Oilers have
Brewer-Staios
Ulanov-Smith
Cross-Semenov
Bergeron
Not bad at all. Problem is the Oilers have to give Luoma a longer chance or else trade him in fear of losing him for nothing. The foward lineup is still a mystery as well. Have to head off to work, so I'll cut this short. :D

Post your lineup for when then the team is healthy, and possible trade ideas. keep it realistic of course. I'll post mine tommorow.

Mr Sakich 01-06-2004 02:59 AM

smith to toronto for coliocovo
laraque and rita to montreal for komaresik

oates to whoever loses a centre to injury for a 2nd round pick. Could be toronto, philly, stl etc

oilerdynasty 01-06-2004 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
smith to toronto for coliocovo
laraque and rita to montreal for komaresik

oates to whoever loses a centre to injury for a 2nd round pick. Could be toronto, philly, stl etc

Stupid to trade Smith, really stupid.

Komisarek for that package is never going to happen.

And you won't get a second round pick for Oates, who is 41 and not doing a single thing.

Try to use your head next time.

Yanner39 01-06-2004 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilerdynasty
Stupid to trade Smith, really stupid.

Komisarek for that package is never going to happen.

And you won't get a second round pick for Oates, who is 41 and not doing a single thing.

Try to use your head next time.

Easy there buddy. Smith makes $2.3M and will probably ask for over $3.5M next year. Also, isn't he an UFA after this season. If someone will get traded for some offense or whatever, it'll be him. We lost Marchant, Cujo and Beaukaboom and Richardson to free agency, I doubt Lowe will allow Smith to leave for nothing in return.

Mr Sakich 01-06-2004 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilerdynasty
Stupid to trade Smith, really stupid.

Komisarek for that package is never going to happen.

And you won't get a second round pick for Oates, who is 41 and not doing a single thing.

Try to use your head next time.

thank you for that insightful response. In the future, I will run all my "opinions" past you before posting here so that I can benefit from your "opinion".

Smith will be UFA after next season. If there is a major stoppage, Lowe will lose him for nothing as it is doubtfull that any gm will offer much for a soon to be ufa if they are not actually playing hockey that year.

As for the Komarasek idea, your opinion of his value is just as valid as mine but I am not going to call you stupid for having that opinion. You obvioously don't need anyone else commenting on you as your own words speak volumes.

Oates is a face-off specialist who is playing better and can help any team in the short term. It was just two years ago that Clarke paid a 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick plus an elite prospect for Oates when they had a short term need.

windowlicker 01-06-2004 06:43 AM

Lets look at it this way....

On D:

Brewer is getting huge minutes each game (being showcased or seeing just how much he can handle..... If theres a Smith departure) Staios is getting killed with minutes as well. Fergie is Fergie. Luoma can play. So can Lynch. Semenov is playing much better. Bergeron is back up. Ulanov looked good last nite. Thats 9 defencemen in the mix (either here or Toronto)

Plus, theres a glut at forward (especially with Reasoner almost ready),
not to mention Rita and Salmelainen deserving of a roster spot.

And the most important fact lately has been that Salo is looking like a player again, and we know that in short stints Conks can be excellent.

I have a feeling something is brewing........though with Lowe you never know.

Jamie 01-06-2004 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
Oates is a face-off specialist who is playing better and can help any team in the short term. It was just two years ago that Clarke paid a 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick plus an elite prospect for Oates when they had a short term need.

I'm going to have to agree with the loudmouth there, I highly doubt we could get a 2nd rounder for Mr. Oates. And this example, is more of an example of a BAD GM, more than anything. He severly overpaid then, and Oates is no where near where he was then.

Aso for your Komi idea, I doubt Montreal would do it, close value wise, but just not something I could see the Habs doing at this point. To them, his value is Hemskyish, despite the fact he's done 0 at the NHL level:S

Smith for Colaicovo is not only fair, it looks doable as well. Toronto could definetly use SMith over there. As for Edmonton, I don't think we will do that personally. I think pretty much any more Lowe makes dealing a core player, he'll get someone who can help now. Therefore, onto my own ideas to get shot down:)

Trade #1
Get a true, young #1 centerman
Smith, Laraque, Horcoff
for
Richards(or Vinny L. if they prefer ;) )

Maybe I'm dreaming, but if Ulanov can play like we're all hoping he will, and this deal got made, we'd be set on D and forwards(goaltending is another question)

Trade#2
Actually... on 2nd thought, 2 trades happening is not gonna happen, so I'll stop there.

Post trades
Smyth-Richards-Isbister
Torres-Reasoner-Dvorak
York-Stoll-Hemsky
Moreau-Oates-Pisani

Brewer-Semenov
Staios-Ulanov
Cross-Luoma/Bergeron

Personally I'd prefer Oates stay out of the lineup and we went with this instead
Smyth-Richards-Isbister
Torres-York-Dvorak
Rita-Reasoner-Hemsky
Moreau-Stoll-Pisani

And those there would be the ideal lines for me, therefore, they'd probably never happen with Mac-T. Chimera can sub in for Rita when he decides to stop playing for a few games and Moreau can jump up to switch lines with him. Oates is there for injury and if Stoll ever caught a slump. That'd give us 3 scoring lines, each with defensive responsability.

Narnia 01-06-2004 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windowlicker
Lets look at it this way....

On D:

Brewer is getting huge minutes each game (being showcased or seeing just how much he can handle..... If theres a Smith departure) Staios is getting killed with minutes as well. Fergie is Fergie. Luoma can play. So can Lynch. Semenov is playing much better. Bergeron is back up. Ulanov looked good last nite. Thats 9 defencemen in the mix (either here or Toronto)

Plus, theres a glut at forward (especially with Reasoner almost ready),
not to mention Rita and Salmelainen deserving of a roster spot.

And the most important fact lately has been that Salo is looking like a player again, and we know that in short stints Conks can be excellent.

I have a feeling something is brewing........though with Lowe you never know.

According to Sportsnet prior the game against New Jersey, Ulanov was signed because the Oilers are decimated by injuries on the blueline. I think the Roadrunners are decimated by injuries on the blueline as well. Both Bobby Allen and Jan Horacek are out indefinitely because of injuries. They also had to call a defenseman up from the ECHL. Do the math and figure it out that both the Roadrunners and Oilers are decimated by injuries on the blueline.

Brewer and Staios have been getting more minutes than they should in the last 2 games but that's because the team is decimated by injuries to the blueline. Both Smith and Cross are out and that left Brewer and Staios to log most of the ice by the defense.

Mr Sakich 01-06-2004 07:29 AM

here is my thought on oates:

as it stands right now, I wouldn't give a 2nd roound pick for him but he is playing a lot better lately and everyone here hopes he continues to improve. My idea of someone offering a 2nd round pick is based on them having a key injury late in the year.

When clarke traded for him, it was the reusult of recchi (?) getting injured and clarke having to deal from a position of weakness. If you read my original idea, it took this into account. Someone is going to get injured and Oates (if he is playing well) is one of the best short term rntals in the nhl. He is smart, excellent defensively and wins most of his draws. In short, everything you look for in a 2nd/3rd line centre in the playoffs.

dawgbone 01-06-2004 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie
Trade #1
Get a true, young #1 centerman
Smith, Laraque, Horcoff
for
Richards(or Vinny L. if they prefer ;) )

Not with the ludicris contract Richards signed this summer.

Jamie 01-06-2004 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
Not with the ludicris contract Richards signed this summer.

????
Whats the ludicrous contract? I take it NHLPA must be out of date in Richards case then, they say his salary is at $2,400,000, which is only $100,000 more than Smiths contract is at. Is there a lot of bonus's or something?

fulk hogan 01-06-2004 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie
????
Whats the ludicrous contract? I take it NHLPA must be out of date in Richards case then, they say his salary is at $2,400,000, which is only $100,000 more than Smiths contract is at. Is there a lot of bonus's or something?

I believe the third year of the deal jumps up to $4.3M.

dawgbone 01-06-2004 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie
????
Whats the ludicrous contract? I take it NHLPA must be out of date in Richards case then, they say his salary is at $2,400,000, which is only $100,000 more than Smiths contract is at. Is there a lot of bonus's or something?

That is only for the first year... next year he makes over 3 mil, and the last year is over 4 mil.

Jamie 01-06-2004 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
That is only for the first year... next year he makes over 3 mil, and the last year is over 4 mil.

Ah, I see, but thats still not bad. We'd lose Smith and Laraques large contracts. And Smith will most likely get more than $3 million this offseason anyways in a one year deal and end up being UFA the following year, while Richards would be here for quite a while I'd imagine. And hopefully with the new CBA, we'd be able to keep his salary at just over $4 million once his contract needed to be renewed as I'm pretty sure he will be a very good player by that point(he allready is very good for that matter)

windowlicker 01-06-2004 08:19 AM

Theres no way we can land Richards....unless we overpay.

Slats432 01-06-2004 08:56 AM

Who is this guy Imminent and why do we always want to trade him?

Oi'll say! 01-06-2004 09:20 AM

I like the fact that Cross and Smith aren't on the IR, in Cross's case especially it must be nice to know that his spot is there waiting for him when he gets healthy.

I'd like to see a 2-for1 deal that nets us a better player than either of the guys we trade away.

IMO our most likely trading partner is the Bruins, with them being in the eastern conference having a less than healthy and productive left side. Realistically the B's have a solid all-around team and should be gearing up for this year's playoffs, they could likely use a scoring power forward on the lw.

Would they part with P Bergeron?

The Rage 01-06-2004 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats432
Who is this guy Imminent and why do we always want to trade him?

Beacuse we can't afford him.

OYLer 01-06-2004 10:16 AM

Time to wake-up and smell the coffee!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
Easy there buddy. Smith makes $2.3M and will probably ask for over $3.5M next year. Also, isn't he an UFA after this season. If someone will get traded for some offense or whatever, it'll be him. We lost Marchant, Cujo and Beaukaboom and Richardson to free agency, I doubt Lowe will allow Smith to leave for nothing in return.

Firstly, Smith has been put on the IR . Secondly, Jason Smith could be earning ZERO (0) next year because of an owners' lockout. In the NEW REALITY, post NHL work stoppage, he will likely be making less than he is making now. If our Captain were smart he'd negotiate a multi-year deal at a reasonal salary now.

In any event, trading him (while injured) before the trade deadline would be poor asset management and would have a disastrous effect on team morale. Those paying the freight (long time season ticket holders) would go ballistic. The purpose of hanging-on until a new CBA allows for small market teams to retain their core personnel, is to do just that--and retaining your team captain I dare say might just qualify as--core personnel!

Frankly, I'm so tired of all this Magic bullet trade talk, and, if only we could get the perfect draft pick crap. Detroit, the Devils, the Avs, and the Stars have won the Stanley cup because they can afford to carry more talent on their Taxi-Squads then the small market teams carry on their real payrolls. Detroit can afford to take a chance on a smallish forward with skills because they could always go out and purchase the services of guys like 'Jason Smith' when they finally learned how to play the difficult position of a top six defensemen. With all the injuries in the NHL, the 23 man rosters are just the first of 35 or more players that it will take to earn a Stanley cup. And all 35 bodies have to be of NHL quality.

The Oilers have to assemble a core rosters first, then build on that core with trades. With 30 NHL teams (six too many) the talent pool is depleted. The fans won't support the obscene salaries while mediocre players on trap-type teams clutch and grab their way to challenge for a Championship. All the while their bedazzled fans thinking they could possibly defeat the Big Market skill teams with the fattest wallet, come trade deadline, with the hottest goaltender, who will eventually win the Tainted Cup, year after year, anyway. Most new American fans love winners not hockey and have already chosen to watch Bowling before becoming hockey conscious. Older Canadian fans are disgusted and ready to spend their entertainment dollars elsewhere.

In today's NFL, with revenue sharing first and a salary cap second, any team can win the SuperBowl. The best organization, with the best coaches, the right player mix, a little luck can win it for their fans. Is having a fair opportunity to win too much to ask for, or will the NHL lose another 25% of its fan base before it clues-in? The reason we in Edmonton want the Oilers to at least make the playoffs is because ... down deep we know that unless the gameplan for the Business of NHL Hockey changes we've won our last Stanley Cup. Therefore, we have already reduced our expectations to 'if only the Oilers' could win at least round #1 before elimination!' and that fellow fans--is pathetic!!!

Yanner39 01-06-2004 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OYLer
Firstly, Smith has been put on the IR . Secondly, Jason Smith could be earning ZERO (0) next year because of an owners' lockout. In the NEW REALITY, post NHL work stoppage, he will likely be making less than he is making now. If our Captain were smart he'd negotiate a multi-year deal at a reasonal salary now.

In any event, trading him (while injured) before the trade deadline would be poor asset management and would have a disastrous effect on team morale. Those paying the freight (long time season ticket holders) would go ballistic. The purpose of hanging-on until a new CBA allows for small market teams to retain their core personnel, is to do just that--and retaining your team captain I dare say might just qualify as--core personnel!

Frankly, I'm so tired of all this Magic bullet trade talk, and, if only we could get the perfect draft pick crap. Detroit, the Devils, the Avs, and the Stars have won the Stanley cup because they can afford to carry more talent on their Taxi-Squads then the small market teams carry on their real payrolls. Detroit can afford to take a chance on a smallish forward with skills because they could always go out and purchase the services of guys like 'Jason Smith' when they finally learned how to play the difficult position of a top six defensemen. With all the injuries in the NHL, the 23 man rosters are just the first of 35 or more players that it will take to earn a Stanley cup. And all 35 bodies have to be of NHL quality.

The Oilers have to assemble a core rosters first, then build on that core with trades. With 30 NHL teams (six too many) the talent pool is depleted. The fans won't support the obscene salaries while mediocre players on trap-type teams clutch and grab their way to challenge for a Championship. All the while their bedazzled fans thinking they could possibly defeat the Big Market skill teams with the fattest wallet, come trade deadline, with the hottest goaltender, who will eventually win the Tainted Cup, year after year, anyway. Most new American fans love winners not hockey and have already chosen to watch Bowling before becoming hockey conscious. Older Canadian fans are disgusted and ready to spend their entertainment dollars elsewhere.

In today's NFL, with revenue sharing first and a salary cap second, any team can win the SuperBowl. The best organization, with the best coaches, the right player mix, a little luck can win it for their fans. Is having a fair opportunity to win too much to ask for, or will the NHL lose another 25% of its fan base before it clues-in? The reason we in Edmonton want the Oilers to at least make the playoffs is because ... down deep we know that unless the gameplan for the Business of NHL Hockey changes we've won our last Stanley Cup. Therefore, we have already reduced our expectations to 'if only the Oilers' could win at least round #1 before elimination!' and that fellow fans--is pathetic!!!

All this is fine in a fantasy world. Bottom line, he's free to go to the highest bidder after thsi season. A new CBA won't make him a restricted free agent after this year.

Dont get your point about him making $0 next year if there is an owners lockout. Don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. You want the Oilers to approach the Smith situation the same they did will Cujo, Marchant and Richardson? Why? So the Oilers can get screwed again. I'm all for keeping him, but if they'ee gonna lose him, he does have some value why not get something even if it's a the trade deadline.

Quite frankly, if you're tired of the trade talk, don't read them. Fact is, Smith being traded is not beyond the realm of possibility.

Oi'll say! 01-06-2004 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OYLer
Firstly, Smith has been put on the IR . Secondly, Jason Smith could be earning ZERO (0) next year because of an owners' lockout. In the NEW REALITY, post NHL work stoppage, he will likely be making less than he is making now. If our Captain were smart he'd negotiate a multi-year deal at a reasonal salary now.

In any event, trading him (while injured) before the trade deadline would be poor asset management and would have a disastrous effect on team morale. Those paying the freight (long time season ticket holders) would go ballistic. The purpose of hanging-on until a new CBA allows for small market teams to retain their core personnel, is to do just that--and retaining your team captain I dare say might just qualify as--core personnel!

*snip*

I appreciate your passion and you make some strong arguments...

"In the NEW REALITY, post NHL work stoppage, he will likely be making less than he is making now."

I also love your optimistic outlook on this one, but Smith will be a ufa and is having a whale of a season right now.

As far as the timing of the trade is concerned, we've all see how deadline deals have failed to positively affect the team due to the limited # of games b4 the end of the season, so if there is to be a trade it should be sooner rather than later.

Yes JS is the captain, but he's also making big bucks and is a ufa at the end of the year. Wearing the "C" was the kiss of death for a while in the most prestigious dressing room in the nhl so being captain is no gaurantee of stability.

IMO you're bang on with your disdain for the magic bullet trade theory, but this team does have some extra names kicking around that are coveted elsewhere and we also have some needs.

oildrop 01-06-2004 10:54 AM

Why are some of you saying that Jason Smith is going to be a UFA after this season because of the new CBA? RFA's that are going to arbitration will be signed by August 15th, if I remember correctly. Smith will be signed by then and the CBA doesn't get under way until September. So are you saying that all players under contract will have their contracts revoked and then everyone will be a UFA? I highly doubt it, so I don't see why Smith would be a UFA.

OYLer 01-06-2004 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
All this is fine in a fantasy world. Bottom line, he's free to go to the highest bidder after thsi season. A new CBA won't make him a restricted free agent after this year.

Dont get your point about him making $0 next year if there is an owners lockout. Don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. You want the Oilers to approach the Smith situation the same they did will Cujo, Marchant and Richardson? Why? So the Oilers can get screwed again. I'm all for keeping him, but if they'ee gonna lose him, he does have some value why not get something even if it's a the trade deadline.

Quite frankly, if you're tired of the trade talk, don't read them. Fact is, Smith being traded is not beyond the realm of possibility.

Did you actually read my post, especially the 1st 2 paragraghs, maybe hit the link provided. Try considering and alternate point of view that is well argued, before you typo and misspell a lame response.

Trading Smith now would be plain dumb! Plus players on the IR can't be traded. Maybe, as I have already suggested, at the trade deadline, after he has definitely chosen to go unrestricted, and TO or Philly will mortgage tommorrow for a Smith today, only trade Jason when the Oiler can get the best return.

Further, IMHO those that would suggest we trade our captain when he is injured aren't true fans but people with too much time on their hands. Fans like players should exercise character and restrainst. No wonder NHL players like Tie Domi advise Darcy Tucker not to ever read the papers, watch the news or visit fan forums. It's no wonder NHL players become so quickly alienated from the fan base. My argument, if you had read it, suggested we should be able to resign Jason Smith, because no teams will be paying players more in the future. Players will be earning less--don't you get that???

Oi'll say! 01-06-2004 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oildrop
Why are some of you saying that Jason Smith is going to be a UFA after this season because of the new CBA? RFA's that are going to arbitration will be signed by August 15th, if I remember correctly. Smith will be signed by then and the CBA doesn't get under way until September. So are you saying that all players under contract will have their contracts revoked and then everyone will be a UFA? I highly doubt it, so I don't see why Smith would be a UFA.

Busted! :blush:

I never checked for myself but the word around here was ufa and I just believed it.

Smith has quite a bit more trade value as an rfa, and the Oil have been trading their players away in the last rfa year lately anyways, the times they haven't done that they weren't able to strike a deal - ie with Marchant, Cujo, & Richardson.

Smith was also a hard guy to sign last time around, and $2.3 won't likely be enough this time. If the Oil were showing signs that they were contenders then a Smith deal would be far less likely, but we can't pay too many d-men top dollar to golf four months a year.

Mr Sakich 01-06-2004 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oildrop
Why are some of you saying that Jason Smith is going to be a UFA after this season because of the new CBA? RFA's that are going to arbitration will be signed by August 15th, if I remember correctly. Smith will be signed by then and the CBA doesn't get under way until September. So are you saying that all players under contract will have their contracts revoked and then everyone will be a UFA? I highly doubt it, so I don't see why Smith would be a UFA.

smith will not be ufa at the end of this year, it won't happen till the end of next year. As an oiler fan, I realize that our team doesn't survive unless the new cba has some radical changes. In order for this to happen, a long strike is inevitable. In other words, many oiler fans are predicting / hoping that there won't be a season next year.

After that, smith will be 31 and ufa. Because there probably won't be a season next year, no other gm will be willing to trade for smith during that non-existant season therfore this trade deadline is the last realistic chance to trade smith if he can't be signed long term.

St Louis is in the same situation with Chris Pronger.


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