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-   -   Isles/Hawks Proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=41889)

IslesJack 01-07-2004 04:08 PM

Isles/Hawks Proposal
 
Posted this on the *************.com Boards and New York Islander Board here at HFBoards. Now I am proposing it to everyone to see what they think.

I am not 100% behind this idea, but I would consider it come the Trade Deadline if A) Yashin is still hurt or has not made a full recovery yet. B) If Yashin's play suffers since the injury. C) Parrish hasn't made a full recovery (You can see these types of injuries can be nagging and longer to recover then expected. An example is Paul Kariya with his wrist.) D) If, god forbid, we get another injury to a goal scorer and E) If we just want to acquire more offense to help make our playoff run stronger.

So, is trading for Alexei Zhamnov a possibility? He has his problems (like every player), but you cannot ignore his offensive ability. He can put the puck in the net and be a valuable assest to our team come playoff time.

He makes $4,500,000 this year, the final year of his contract. Which is too much for the Islanders but most of it will be paid by then. Of course he is a UFA.

The Blackhawks are cheap and aren't going anywhere so he would probably come pretty cheap. Maybe a draft pick and a mid level prospect?

He is a natural center, but may be able to play wing. Hey...why not? Let me know what you think?
__________________________________________________ ___________

With that said......

To Islanders:
Alexei Zhamnov
fifth round draft pick

To Hawks:
third round pick
Prospect Vladimir Gorbunov
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect.php?pid=30

With Jeremy Colliton, Evengy Tunik and Dmitri Chernykh all at RW in the depth charts he seems expendable.

Chicago gets a good prospect and decent round draft pick to help them in the rebuilding process and most importantly they get something of value for a player they probably won't resign.

The Isles would probably do this after the All-Star break or more likely at the Trade Deadline when Zhamnov's salary has mostly been payed. Zhamnov is a great rental and it is 100% that the Isles wouldn't resign him. Perhaps this gives the Isles that one last push and offensive punch to make a strong playoff run.

Thank you.

Behn Wilson 01-07-2004 04:12 PM

Zero interest in that trade from the Hawk standpoint. We arent going to give our best player away. That offer is awful, we got more for Jon Klemm.

If we hold onto him and let him go we get a compensatory second rounder.

IslesJack 01-07-2004 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behn Wilson
Zero interest in that trade from the Hawk standpoint. We arent going to give our best player away. That offer is awful, we got more for Jon Klemm.

If we hold onto him and let him go we get a compensatory second rounder.

Yeah, he's your best player, but where are the Hawks going? His value all depends on how many teams are interested and how much they're willing to give up. Which due to his soft, inconsistent and lack of defensive play makes his unattractable to many teams.

You got a second round pick and a 6th defenseman for a top four defenseman and a fourth round pick? That wasn't a better trade, it's a typical salary dump, UFA deal.

Although the circumstances were SLIGHTLY, at best, different look at what Tony Amonte fetched the Coyotes last year? Not much....

A second round pick is better then a third and a projected second line winger? :shakehead

By the way, he is Russian which helps when dealing with the Hawks and there fascination for Russian players. :joker:

Mike Milbury has made his fair share of ridiculous trades, but Bob Pulford?? :lol: that's a different story. :teach:

Behn Wilson 01-07-2004 04:34 PM

In what world do you consider Robidas, who we got for Klemm a top 4 NHL defenseman. He is a borderline AHL talent, undersized and with NO offensive skills, but at least he plays wwith heart.

And you 12th ranked prospect is a projected AHL player, not second line NHL player. Your offer is laughable and does not even merit discussion.

Just because the Hawks arent doing well, we arent going to give players away.

And Amontes trade value was minimal as he ws signed to a long term contract well in excess of his worth at this point in his career.

Ice Cream Man 01-07-2004 04:38 PM

Hakws wouldn't, and shouldn't, touch this with a ten-foot pole. Zhamnov might be able to garner a better return, especially around the deadline.

Peter Griffin 01-07-2004 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Hakws wouldn't, and shouldn't, touch this with a ten-foot pole. Zhamnov might be able to garner a better return, especially around the deadline.

Exactly, and if he doesn't, they still will get compensation when he becomes a UFA and signs with another team(assuming he remains in the NHL). I would say at the trade deadline, the Hawks would deal Zhamnov for a 2nd round pick and a decent prospect, maybe a 3rd instead of a 2nd.

Darth Milbury 01-07-2004 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behn Wilson
Zero interest in that trade from the Hawk standpoint. We arent going to give our best player away. That offer is awful, we got more for Jon Klemm.

If we hold onto him and let him go we get a compensatory second rounder.


You don't necessarily get a second rounder. That is the best you can do. A more likely outcome is a 4th or 5th rounder. The NHL has some bizare formula for determining compensation, that is based on the player's impact on your team and also takes into account other players signed by your team. Ifs realtively rare the the compensation is as a high as a second rounder, and the player involved is probably not high profile enough to warrant that return.

Peter Griffin 01-07-2004 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
You don't necessarily get a second rounder. That is the best you can do. A more likely outcome is a 4th or 5th rounder. The NHL has some bizare formula for determining compensation, that is based on the player's impact on your team and also takes into account other players signed by your team. Ifs realtively rare the the compensation is as a high as a second rounder, and the player involved is probably not high profile enough to warrant that return.

I believe the compensation is mostly based on how much the player signs for as a UFA. Zhamnov is making $4.5 mil this season, I can't see him signing for that much this summer, probably around what Andy Cassels got, in the $3 mil range. I think the Canucks received a 3rd round pick as compensation...

Darth Milbury 01-07-2004 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I believe the compensation is mostly based on how much the player signs for as a UFA. Zhamnov is making $4.5 mil this season, I can't see him signing for that much this summer, probably around what Andy Cassels got, in the $3 mil range. I think the Canucks received a 3rd round pick as compensation...


$ is only one part of the equation. They also look at other signings that the team makes. If the ChiHawks make any additional signings themself, they might not receive any compensation.

Peter Griffin 01-07-2004 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
$ is only one part of the equation. They also look at other signings that the team makes. If the ChiHawks make any additional signings themself, they might not receive any compensation.

I know, that's why I said "mostly" ;)

I know that team salary is also a factor. If a team makes over a certain ammount, they are ineligible to receive compensation for their UFA's, regardless if they don't sign anyone. That is the reason we saw teams like Toronto, New York and Dallas trading their soon to be UFA's to teams such as Calgary, Edmonton and Nashville, so they could at least receive something in return while Calgary would receive the compensatory pick from the league.

Teemu 01-07-2004 07:24 PM

jeez....

i highly doubt, first of all, that zhamnov will even be traded to a team that isnt in serious contention. Why trade Archie to a team like the isles, in which we get a crappy return like this, when we can trade him to a contender and get a good prospect and a good draft pick at least?

Peter Griffin 01-07-2004 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemu08
jeez....

i highly doubt, first of all, that zhamnov will even be traded to a team that isnt in serious contention. Why trade Archie to a team like the isles, in which we get a crappy return like this, when we can trade him to a contender and get a good prospect and a good draft pick at least?

Who says a contender will want him? Does Colorado need another center? No. Detroit, not really. New Jersey? No. Ottawa? No. Philly? No. St.Louis? No. Toronto? No. Vancouver? Perhaps.

In any case, expecting a "good prospect and a good draft pick at least" for a soon to be UFA who is coming off of an injury that has kept him out all season and a guy who has very little playoff experience(contenders will value playoff experience) is wishful thinking IMO. That type of offer would likely be the absoulte most the Hawks would get for Archie.

Darth Milbury 01-07-2004 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemu08
jeez....

i highly doubt, first of all, that zhamnov will even be traded to a team that isnt in serious contention. Why trade Archie to a team like the isles, in which we get a crappy return like this, when we can trade him to a contender and get a good prospect and a good draft pick at least?


First of all, Isles probably would have little to no interest in Zhamnov. No offense to my friend Islesjack, but just because he raised Zhamnov's name doesn't mean the Isles would really be interested.

Second, good luck getting a "good prospect" and a "good draft pick" for that player. He doesn't have nearly that kind of value.

Teemu 01-08-2004 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
First of all, Isles probably would have little to no interest in Zhamnov. No offense to my friend Islesjack, but just because he raised Zhamnov's name doesn't mean the Isles would really be interested.

Second, good luck getting a "good prospect" and a "good draft pick" for that player. He doesn't have nearly that kind of value.

neither did adam oates.

im not saying we will get an adam oates-esque return (or even close to it), but if a team wants to win, they'll take the risk.

blitzkriegs 01-08-2004 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemu08
neither did adam oates.

im not saying we will get an adam oates-esque return (or even close to it), but if a team wants to win, they'll take the risk.

the risk is adding Zhamnov to your roster, not what you are going to trade to get him (which will be minimal).

Zhamnov will stay in CHI. Why? because he has no trade value. They will probably have to keep him because the return value is so low it would be embarrasing to make the trade. If a trade does happen, then a statement like "not going to resign him, so we got the best we could get" will be thrown to CHI fans.

and when was the last time someone added a enigmatic Russian player for that critical playoff run?

Trottier 01-08-2004 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
and when was the last time someone added a enigmatic Russian player for that critical playoff run?

Devils - Alex Mogilny and Vlad Malakhov. Helped them win a Cup in '00.

Actually, assuming he proves to be healthy, I see Zhamnov being a solid fit in NJ for a short, stretch run. Guys come there, adapt to the system, and suddenly remember how to become consistent, productive players. (Win a Cup, then leave for more $$$ and a less oppressive culture. :joker:)

Under the right circumstances, Zhamnov will fetch a high #2, low #1 from a team looking to take a mow-rsik chance to win it all.

Howard35 01-08-2004 02:19 PM

regardless of how bad the team is doing, a 3rd rounder and a OK prospect for zhamnov is brutal. The hawks are better off keeping him for 4.5 a year then lossing him for nothing that will help them

blitzkriegs 01-08-2004 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
Devils - Alex Mogilny and Vlad Malakhov. Helped them win a Cup in '00.

Actually, assuming he proves to be healthy, I see Zhamnov being a solid fit in NJ for a short, stretch run. Guys come there, adapt to the system, and suddenly remember how to become consistent, productive players. (Win a Cup, then leave for more $$$ and a less oppressive culture. :joker:)

Under the right circumstances, Zhamnov will fetch a high #2, low #1 from a team looking to take a mow-rsik chance to win it all.

good point, but then again they went to the Devils. I wouldn't put Mogo in the same class as Zhamnov because he has produced with every team he has played on.

Malakhov is more comparable as enigmatic, but he was a #4 in NJ for that run.

Darth Milbury 01-08-2004 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemu08
neither did adam oates.

im not saying we will get an adam oates-esque return (or even close to it), but if a team wants to win, they'll take the risk.


The Adam Oates situation is completely irrelevant. Oates was leading the NHL in assists, and was coming off a 80+ point seasons when he was traded. At the time, Philly was desperate because of injuries and they made one of the worst deals in their history. Zhamnov doesn't begin to approach Oates' status at the time and, even if a team does suffer a freak injury or two, he is not going to be seen as the final piece.


I'd say a third rounder and a second tier prospect is about what you could expect.

jumptheshark 01-08-2004 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behn Wilson
Zero interest in that trade from the Hawk standpoint. We arent going to give our best player away. That offer is awful, we got more for Jon Klemm.

If we hold onto him and let him go we get a compensatory second rounder.


Saying AZ is your best player is a very sad statement


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