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BBR 01-08-2004 06:03 PM

Dagenais
 
I no you dont like him but he score.
He as 7 goals,20games in less then half42games Zednik13 goals.
He will never be rough or defensif .
We ad Bellows that play same style,He can help offence.

Maithz 01-08-2004 06:09 PM

I don't see the point of your thread :dunno: ... But I agree that Dagenais could make the 2nd effort on defensive , I'd rather have a Balej , Plekanec , Hossa on the 2nd line . He have for sure a great scoring touch but he sucks on defensive

Vicious 01-08-2004 06:09 PM

S-K-A-T-I-N-G.

Kirk Muller 01-08-2004 06:21 PM

Don't even mention Brian Bellows with Pierre Dagenais. Bellows was 10 times the player that Dagenais can ever hope to be.

While Dagenais can help on the Powerplay, he is absolutely useless on five on five and is a liability. He shows no intensity, no willingness to use his size, can't pass, useless along the boards, can't carry the puck, and frankly I think I am being kind.

Simply, if he didn't have success with Ribeiro in junior, he wouldn't have even been signed, and probably wouldn't currently be in the lineup.

BBR 01-08-2004 08:52 PM

He can score you cut some slack to Killger
doesnt score doesnt hit but he can skate
wit no hockey sense what good is he :dunno:
I dont say is a super star but he can plug a
hole tell somebody is ready.
Give the guy some slack ;)
And he score 2 g on pp
and 5 g 5on5

Guy! 01-08-2004 10:01 PM

You're exactly right, BBR. For the short-term, there's no reason why he shouldn't be here. He puts the puck in the net and is an offensively aware player which is something this team needs.

However...

Dags is not an NHL quality player. When the *only* thing you do is shoot, your are a one-dimensional player with little prospect in the NHL. For now, he's fine, but he's transitionary and only here until we find someone better.

ACF

Et bienvenue. :-)

Darz 01-09-2004 04:05 AM

He's better than Audette.

Habber 01-09-2004 04:18 AM

I cringe every time Dags scores because it means it will be that much longer he will stay on the 2nd line. He really is a terrible hockey player.

But...having said that, like you guys say, he is scoring. He's been Jonny on the spot, and I guess being at the right time in the right place is a skill in itself.

JV 01-09-2004 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habber
I cringe every time Dags scores because it means it will be that much longer he will stay on the 2nd line. He really is a terrible hockey player.

But...having said that, like you guys say, he is scoring. He's been Jonny on the spot, and I guess being at the right time in the right place is a skill in itself.

Yeah, he may not be physical, but he gets to where he needs to be to bang in rebounds and get off shots on goal. They should give him drugs and make him stay in cheap motels, away from the team....see if that helps.

mcphee 01-09-2004 04:25 AM

Sometimes when evaluating players we get too caught up in the breakdown of abilities, and underrate the importance of putting the puck in the net. Dagenais is a threat whenever he receives a pass in the offensive zone. He can do little else, but the game is decided on goal totals. You can't afford to have players like Dagenais if you don't have players like Bullis, but the opposite can also be true. If you are commited to a pretty passing type like Ribeiro, you have to have a pure finisher with him. In the long run you'd prefer a player who is also a threat off the rush with speed, but until then I have no problem with Dagenais. if he doesn't balance out his game, he'll be replaced soon enough. If the Balej's and Higgins' are more complete and can score, well it becomes an easy choice.

goalchenyuk 01-09-2004 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
Sometimes when evaluating players we get too caught up in the breakdown of abilities, and underrate the importance of putting the puck in the net. Dagenais is a threat whenever he receives a pass in the offensive zone. He can do little else, but the game is decided on goal totals. You can't afford to have players like Dagenais if you don't have players like Bullis, but the opposite can also be true. If you are commited to a pretty passing type like Ribeiro, you have to have a pure finisher with him. In the long run you'd prefer a player who is also a threat off the rush with speed, but until then I have no problem with Dagenais. if he doesn't balance out his game, he'll be replaced soon enough. If the Balej's and Higgins' are more complete and can score, well it becomes an easy choice.

well said mcphee.

the team needs goals and by now there is not a lot of players in the team that are able to do it.If you look the stats of the team , Dagenais have the best goal /game ratio.So , so may be is not a good all around player ( he's still +1 ), may be he's not physical, but he scores more often than his teammate by now.

Bulis 43 games 8 goals
Koivu 29 games 7 goals
perreault 35 games 9 goals
Ryder 42 games 9 goals
Zednk 42 games 13 goals
Ribeiro 42 games 8 goals

Dagenais 20 games 7 goals

as you said , i am sure that when youg guns like Baleij or Plekanek are going to play for the team , Dagenais won't be a part of our team for a longtime...

Bob Bastards 01-09-2004 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious
S-K-A-T-I-N-G.

Dave Andreychuk is a worst skater then Dagenais and yet play 1500 game in the NHL and score over 600 goal, mostly garbage goal. Does it mean Andreychuk is a bad player? Hell no! Sometime having a pure goal scorer can be a really good thing and since our team is so desperate in term of goal, Dag fit the bill for now. By the way, do you really think this guy will be with us if he would skate as fast as Bure? Skating is a big part of the game, but its not they only part.

Howie Morenz 01-09-2004 06:59 AM

Please don't compare Dagenais to Bellows. Brian Bellows was a solid even strength player throughout his career.

Guy Caballero 01-09-2004 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob ********
Dave Andreychuk is a worst skater then Dagenais and yet play 1500 game in the NHL and score over 600 goal, mostly garbage goal. Does it mean Andreychuk is a bad player? Hell no! Sometime having a pure goal scorer can be a really good thing and since our team is so desperate in term of goal, Dag fit the bill for now. By the way, do you really think this guy will be with us if he would skate as fast as Bure? Skating is a big part of the game, but its not they only part.

Yeah, there's also passing, defensive zone coverage, forechecking, keeping your heads up in the neutral zone to generate turnovers...

Get the picture? Dagenais does NONE of these things. All he does is shoot -- every time he gets the puck, no matter where he is. On paper, what he's done looks great, but guys like him do not play for contenders. As others have said, that's fine for now, since we are not one, but it's time to start thinking like one. That means looking around the league for players who add more "value" than creampuffs like Ribs and Dags. I say ship the both of them off to a non-playoff team and let them tantilize fans with their abundant skill there.

DRGO 01-09-2004 07:51 AM

Look at the numbers...
 
Saku Koivu GP=29 G=7 A=16 Pts=23 +/-=0 PIM=24 PPG=2
Pierre Dagenais GP=20 G=7 A=5 Pts=12 +/-=1 PIM=6 PPG=3

IMO Dagenais is here for one thing: help offensively. He is not such a threat defensively neither...

You can not expect all players to be good on all fronts. Since he is in the lineup, the team has been producing more steadily offensively and winning.

Rivet is a defensive threat! Look at the games that were lost against the Flyers, the Caps and the Leafs! Guess what: Rivet was on the ice for the three winning goals! Don't tell me you expect Rivet to compensate with his offense!

My humble opinion...

Bob Bastards 01-09-2004 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
Yeah, there's also passing, defensive zone coverage, forechecking, keeping your heads up in the neutral zone to generate turnovers...

Get the picture? Dagenais does NONE of these things.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but I don't think you can score at the NHL level if you don't have at least a little bit of those quality...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
All he does is shoot -- every time he gets the puck, no matter where he is.

I think the point of having him in the lineup was to have someone to finnish the play. I hope you did not think of him as a playmaker... Last year, everybody was going nut about the inability of our player to shoot the f**cking puck...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
On paper, what he's done looks great, but guys like him do not play for contenders. As others have said, that's fine for now, since we are not one, but it's time to start thinking like one. That means looking around the league for players who add more "value" than creampuffs like Ribs and Dags. I say ship the both of them off to a non-playoff team and let them tantilize fans with their abundant skill there.

I think you let your personal feeling get in the way here. You don't like Rib and Dag? Fine, ship them in Sibera and now who would you put in their place? Higgins? Plekanec? Balej? Oh no I forgot the "Let trade Perrault for Forsberg" idea. This one could work. ******! every time the team start to look like a team, there always somebody to say "Trade the whole bunch of them". Oh wait, since I write that Rib and Dag are not that bad, it probably mean I am a bad-Franco-racist-that-always-defend-the-french-player-on-this-board, right?

I really don't know what the people want sometime... :madfire:

Beatnik 01-09-2004 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
That means looking around the league for players who add more "value" than creampuffs like Ribs and Dags. I say ship the both of them off to a non-playoff team and let them tantilize fans with their abundant skill there.

you are right we should trade them agains gritty big skilled young players!!!

Maybe we could also trade Rivet for a hard hitting D-men with better offensive and defensive skills!!

Ribs and Dagenais are what we have best for now on the 2nd lines.
Face it, they do their job right (bring goals without according more.). I don't care if they got points agains bad team we need to win those game too.

mcphee 01-09-2004 08:59 AM

Bob, relax, I want you to breathe deeply, have a beer and think pleasant thoughts. Remember how you felt when Koivu scored that playoff goal against Boston. OK, now that we're feeling better, Dagenais has only played about 80 NHL games and hasn't, by what I've read, dedicated himself to off ice conditioning. He may improve. If so, great. If not eventually someone will take his job. Until then, if this anger flares up again, I'll tell the story about how Richer body slammed Milbury in the playoffs in the late 80's. That'll make everybody feel better. Ahhh, nothing like Habs serenity. Now I'll try and get the Leaf fans to calm down and learn to take a joke. Alfredson was kidding guys,he didn't mean any harm. Don't take yourselves so seriously. Leave the Macho posturing to Mr. Domi, he gets paid for it.

Bob Bastards 01-09-2004 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcphee
Bob, relax, I want you to breathe deeply, have a beer and think pleasant thoughts. Remember how you felt when Koivu scored that playoff goal against Boston. OK, now that we're feeling better, Dagenais has only played about 80 NHL games and hasn't, by what I've read, dedicated himself to off ice conditioning. He may improve. If so, great. If not eventually someone will take his job. Until then, if this anger flares up again, I'll tell the story about how Richer body slammed Milbury in the playoffs in the late 80's. That'll make everybody feel better. Ahhh, nothing like Habs serenity. Now I'll try and get the Leaf fans to calm down and learn to take a joke. Alfredson was kidding guys,he didn't mean any harm. Don't take yourselves so seriously. Leave the Macho posturing to Mr. Domi, he gets paid for it.

Sorry, bad day, bad case of cold and a $hitty job...

Garnet 01-09-2004 10:25 AM

Dagenais
 
I think any Habs fan can say recalling Dag's from Hamilton is a bad thing for the team. He's got 12pts in 20 games and is a +1. +1 playing with Riberio and Zednik. Dag's hasn't been getting a lot of PP time lately. He on the 2nd PP and gets about 40 seconds on the PP.

So you want him to play better D-fence? Ok so whats if play plays better defencively and stops scoring? Where does he end up? Hamitlon.

If you had a player who is Big, Physical, good skater,who could scoring and play defence you have a superstar. Dagenais isn't a superstar but your expecting one. Hes just a guy trying to make it in the NHL and is currently. He's big than I expected!!

montreal 01-09-2004 10:46 AM

One has to wonder if seeing a flying Slovak coming down the RW instead of a slow poke in Dags wouldn't be better for the team down the road. (boy does he have trouble making quick turns) Josef Balej would be interesting to see even if just for a few games. Dags has such a good shot it's not even funny, but man is it painful watching the guy makes turns or skate up the ice. But Dags is scoring so until he stops doing that he will be in the lineup.

Breenger 01-09-2004 11:23 AM

Though it is pretty funny seeing Deganais trying to be physical and check someone (it looks like the most unnatural thing in the world for him), it just isn't his game. He is big (6'5") and everyone seems to think that means that he should be another Todd Bertuzzi, but he isn't. What he is, is a big guy with an amazing shot. He is only 25, and we all know that bigger players seem to blossom later. He isn't costing the team much, either.
So the rest of his game sucks.
Who cares? As long as he keeps putting the puck in the net, the Habs have enough 2-way talent to make up for that. If he keeps on improving, there's no reason why he can't become a pretty special goal-scorer. On the other hand, if he falls back into his old habits, he could find himself in the same position as he found himself earlier this year, without a contract.
If he continues to get better, that puts the Canadiens in a much better position of being able to trade some of their RW scoring prospects (Kats, Balej) to fill other holes in the lineup (like a geuine power forward).

goalchenyuk 01-09-2004 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breenger
If he continues to get better, that puts the Canadiens in a much better position of being able to trade some of their RW scoring prospects (Kats, Balej) to fill other holes in the lineup (like a geuine power forward).

or to trade Dagenais himself...

Lok 01-09-2004 01:43 PM

Dagenais have a physical play of Eric Daze with same size but less skills

Joe Malone 01-09-2004 02:19 PM

Dagenais may be as pure a goalscorer as we've seen in a Habs uniform in quite some time. He's got the big-time shot, and a knack for getting into scoring position. As McPhee said, he's a threat to score each time he's in the offensive zone. It's nice to have that luxory on our team.

I don't know that he's been a glaring defensive liability, and I'm willing to accept that he'll never skate like Russ Courtnall.


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