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-   -   Can we learn from the Mets? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=425376)

nyr5186 10-02-2007 03:33 AM

Can we learn from the Mets?
 
I was thinking about the Mets' monumental collapse, and it got me thinking about the Rangers. Both teams went into (or are going into) the season with very high expectations. Both made significant strides the previous year, having some success in the playoffs before being ousted by teams that were, arguably, no better than them. Both are built to win now, and have a good blend of veterans and youth. Despite that, the Mets strolled through most of the season as if the playoffs were a foregone conclusion, playing lackadaisically throughout. In the end, their shoddy bullpen and inability to come through in the clutch led to them succumbing to the pressure of the city (and the Phillies' surge).

When I look at the Rangers this season, I see a team that is, on paper, extremely talented. Save for a few question marks, it looks like they are poised, and motivated, to make a run for the Cup. But at the same time, had you told a Met fan in April that his team would miss the playoffs this year, he would probably laugh. Pardon the pessimistic tone, but I would like to hear what people think about the possibility of the Rangers really dissappointing us this year. What if Gomez and/or Drury don't seem to fit in, and eventually become a new version of Fleury, Holik, Kovalev 2.0, etc.? What if Lundqvist gets hurt and struggles to play consistently, much like Beltran did? What if Jagr, Shanahan, and Straka show serious signs of age, and their lack of confidence and frustrations spill over to the rest of the team? What if the losses of Ortmeyer and Cullen really hamper our penalty killing, much like the Mets were missing Chad Bradford and Duaner Sanchez in the bullpen? What if guys like Girardi, Callahan and Prucha regress this season, or simply don't step up to greater challenges (think Heilman and Reyes)? What if Renney shows a penchant for questionable coaching decisions (something he's done in the past) and/or fails to elevate his status from a good players' coach to a championship-calibre tactitian/motivator (think Willie Randolph)? These are all questions that need to be asked before we assume that this team is "just preparing" for the playoffs. You need to get there first, and the Mets' demise this year has given me a new perspective on how I should view the Rangers: one of cautious confidence, rather than blind optimism.

Carlos Ranger 10-02-2007 04:19 AM

Not a fan of baseball, so can't relate to the Mets, however... just gotta believe that we'll have some luck. We've got a great core group of guys who are hungry and aren't going to just assume they'll breeze into the playoffs.

and as Dave Maloney said, "the atlantic division will keep the rangers honest." there will be no "getting bored" as was the case with the Mets.

Anything's possible, but injuries are the only thing that will hamper the success of this team... not motivation.. as for the Fleury, Holik comparisons, that's ridiculous and is old hat at this point.

Besides, two NY collapses in one year would be insanely rare.

Choice 10-02-2007 08:14 AM

I think the lesson the Rangers can take from the Mets is no matter how could you think you are, and may be, never take anything for granted because the Sens, Pens, Devils, Isles, Thrashers, Habs andd other are going to be just as hungry.

Lion Hound 10-02-2007 08:20 AM

Yeah buy when even risk the "Gooch" by bringing the Mets into a Rangers thread????

I Am Chariot 10-02-2007 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2noise (Post 10609393)
I think the Isles have more to learn from the Mets as both teams are gay.


:cheers:

In The Flesh 10-02-2007 10:10 AM

You have to have a decent season before you can collapse it, lets get there first.

And do we have to beat the mets discussion to a bloody pulp, its hard enough for us Mets fans to go through with this, we come to the ranger board to take our minds off it, and it comes up again. jeez.

Bluenote13 10-02-2007 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 (Post 10610403)
You have to have a decent season before you can collapse it, lets get there first.

And do we have to beat the mets discussion to a bloody pulp, its hard enough for us Mets fans to go through with this, we come to the ranger board to take our minds off it, and it comes up again. jeez.

You lost a 7 game lead, and this is NY. Your gonna have to deal with it for more than just a few days, sorry man. Btw, I'm a Yankee fan but i always root for the Mets away from the interleague games with us. How can any of you be happy a team from Philly won over a team from NY!?

But i do agree, this thread is silly, what happend to the Mets doesn't happen that often.

jc25 10-02-2007 10:27 AM

The owner/management of the Mets failed the players and the players failed the fans. It's really a rough situation for Mets fans right now, can't say that I care at all though :p. I could see the Rangers imploding with Avery and maybe an outburst from a D-man but I think the management is too goal oriented and swift with stuff like that, see Aaron Ward.

mnorman1 10-02-2007 10:36 AM

I'm a fan, not a student who needs a lesson.

Son of Steinbrenner 10-02-2007 10:39 AM

we can take a lesson from Mets fans and Yankees fans....

If the Rangers look great in November it doesn't mean you walk around town with your head up high like you already won something...

If the Rangers look terrible in November you don't give up...you don't call for random trades just to make a trade...

In The Flesh 10-02-2007 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner (Post 10610676)
we can take a lesson from Mets fans and Yankees fans....

If the Rangers look great in November it doesn't mean you walk around town with your head up high like you already won something...

If the Rangers look terrible in November you don't give up...you don't call for random trades just to make a trade...

good call.

Sm0otHocKeySPeeD 10-02-2007 10:52 AM

What's the difference between a Mets hotdog and a Rangers hotdog??










...you can't buy a Mets hotdog in October!! OHhhhhh!!! lmao

-B

mnorman1 10-02-2007 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner (Post 10610676)
we can take a lesson from Mets fans and Yankees fans....

If the Rangers look great in November it doesn't mean you walk around town with your head up high like you already won something...

If the Rangers look terrible in November you don't give up...you don't call for random trades just to make a trade...

This is how HF works for every team, I doubt we'll be much different. As long as we don't get like Buffalo last spring...

ogie 10-02-2007 10:57 AM

we can't learn from the mets per-say but we can learn from this. Never, ever hire a yankees bench coach to be your Manager. It just don't work.

Sm0otHocKeySPeeD 10-02-2007 11:00 AM

Ummmm....didn't it TAKE a Yankee to make the Mets a team worth a dam??

Correct me if I'm wrong but since Willy crossed boroughs the Mets started makin some noise and became more than just that "other" baseball team in NY.

-B

Son of Steinbrenner 10-02-2007 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogie (Post 10610852)
we can't learn from the mets per-say but we can learn from this. Never, ever hire a yankees bench coach to be your Manager. It just don't work.

or...never fire a former yankees hitting coach when your team is running away with the division and league...

or...never compare jose reyes to derek jeter...

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-02-2007 11:09 AM

Guys this is not a Mets thread. It's not a rip the Mets thread. Let's find a way to bring this back around to the Rangers please.

Shadowtron 10-02-2007 11:22 AM

What have I learned from the Mets? Nothing. They're amateurs compared to the Rangers. We only have 4 cups in 80 years!

KreiMeARiver 10-02-2007 11:22 AM

This wouldn't happen to the Rangers for one simple reason:

CHARACTER

It's a lost art in sports other than hockey...

Fletch 10-02-2007 11:35 AM

It's just like anything in sports...
 
you can't take things for granted. The Mets fell apart. It's something that can happen to any pro team. It can happen to the Rangers. They can lead the division through March and after Henke plays in every game but 5, he tires and they fall out of contention (granted, it's harder to fall out of contention in hockey than in baseball). We saw a little bit of a tired team two seasons ago when they lost their last 5 games (15 out of 24) and four straight in the playoffs. Gotta play 82 games and you need to manage your assets well - which means that maybe Henke shouldn't play 70+ games. Perhaps Shanny shouldn't kill penalties. An so on.

danno2530 10-02-2007 03:44 PM

Here's the difference between the Mets and the Rangers..

The Mets took a big step forward last year, making it all the way to the NLCS Game 7. They knew that they were just a couple of arms away from getting back to that spot and possibly the World Series. However, for some unknown reason, Omar Minaya only added Moises Alou and Luis Castillo. Now while both players were very solid (especially Alou), Omar never addressed their biggest weakness: Pitching. Especially the bullpen.

Flash ahead to last week. While alot of the blame goes on Jose Reyes and some of the bats that went quiet, the fact is that the pitching couldn't get anybody out and Omar never added any big relievers at the deadline. You could argue that was the difference for them.

Now let's look at the Rangers. Much like the Mets, the Rangers made a huge step forward and were just 7 seconds away from grabbing momentum against Buffalo (and they WOULD have won Game 6). However, it was known that there was a big weakness - the Center position. Glen Sather knew this and went out and didn't just get one, but got TWO of the best centers available in years. Two centers that will be a huge part of the puzzle for many years.

Of course, alot of people say that defense was the problem and that this was not addressed, but I personally think the D is in much better shape than alot of people think.

In the end, I don't really think the Rangers need to learn anything from the Mets. I think they've already done more in doing what it takes to win...at least among management. Hopefully the players do the same thing.

Fletch 10-02-2007 03:47 PM

That's a good synopsis...
 
of course, we'll soon find out about the defense. Sather's MO is the offense (and goaltending) will take care of the defense - and that has worked - hopefully it will continue - but like with the Mets - hopefully some horses do not tire-out come March like guys like Billy Wagner did from being overused.

Alcoolique* 10-02-2007 04:15 PM

Well, the Rangers learned before the Mets.


Isn't in 2006 that they screw a 19point Lead on the Devils?(As for the Flyers, it was like... 4-6points?Can't remember).

Choice 10-02-2007 04:16 PM

Any team at any level can learn from the Mets abomination. If you lose focus and take anything for granted thats what will happen.

peanutbuttacallytime 10-02-2007 04:19 PM

As a diehard Mets and Rangers fan...i am devistated right now (and so happy I have Rangers hockey thursday!)...but i was thinking the same thing as you...these mets all year played with like the playoffs were already wrapped up and were just looking foward to the playoffs...believe me, i want a cup this season, i just dont want our rangers to think this is a lock and were just goin get ready for the post season. We have to play every game tough, nothing is guaranteed...great post:handclap:


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