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-   -   Trade proposal - Van/Florida (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=43132)

membleypeg 01-12-2004 07:38 AM

Trade proposal - Van/Florida
 
To Van - Hordichuk + Lilja
To Florida - Chubarov + Ruutu + Malik

Reasons

Van could use extra grit heading into the last half of the season and playoff run.

Florida (watched last two games vs Canucks and Flames) looks like they need help on the PK and defensive game. Chubarov, Ruutu, and Malik are all responsible shut down types.

nucks2001 01-12-2004 07:42 AM

little much from Vancouver. Hordichuk has bounced around a bit and isn't worth that much. Lilja is under rated certainly but there is still too much there from Vancouver. Hordichuk isn't some mega-experienced playoff guy either so I'm not sure what you are saying there. Not to mention we would lose all of our forward depth to add a goon. Not worth it at all.

TMac21 01-12-2004 07:44 AM

Yeah, Vancouver does overpay.

NFITO 01-12-2004 07:49 AM

I don't see why Vancouver makes this deal???

Lilja might be a nice dman, but Malik has been solid as well ... if we're replacing Malik in the lineup, I'd want to see a Witt type coming back, a hardnosed tough dman to play against who could play in the top 4.

Chubarov and Ruutu have also been solid for us too... both have improved this year - especially Ruutu, and both get solid minutes on our PK - which is #3 I believe right now in the league.

I don't really see any fits with Florida here... in the playoffs, would the Canucks even play a guy like Hordichuk over vets like May or Keane??

Hordichuk's toughness would be nice, but not at the price of any regular roster players, who are all contributing well for us.

Heimy 01-12-2004 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by membleypeg
To Van - Hordichuk + Lilja
To Florida - Chubarov + Ruutu + Malik

Reasons

Van could use extra grit heading into the last half of the season and playoff run.

Florida (watched last two games vs Canucks and Flames) looks like they need help on the PK and defensive game. Chubarov, Ruutu, and Malik are all responsible shut down types.


From a Florida POV it's a fair offer value wise but isn't practical. Having dealt Worrell away Florida needs to keep Hordichuk as their enforcer. Also, having watched him while a Hurricane I've never thought much of Malik.

BTW, I didn't get to see last night's game. How did Lilja play? He's been the weakest link on Florida's blueline for most of this season and is starting to catch some heat from the beat writers here.

nucks2001 01-12-2004 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heimy
From a Florida POV it's a fair offer value wise but isn't practical. Having dealt Worrell away Florida needs to keep Hordichuk as their enforcer. Also, having watched him while a Hurricane I've never thought much of Malik.

BTW, I didn't get to see last night's game. How did Lilja play? He's been the weakest link on Florida's blueline for most of this season and is starting to catch some heat from the beat writers here.

I didn't really notice him much. Florida d-men weren't really promintent until the last period when they were all under fire. He did try to pick a fight with Jovo in the OT that didn't go so well for him though.

NFITO 01-12-2004 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heimy
From a Florida POV it's a fair offer value wise but isn't practical. Having dealt Worrell away Florida needs to keep Hordichuk as their enforcer. Also, having watched him while a Hurricane I've never thought much of Malik.

BTW, I didn't get to see last night's game. How did Lilja play? He's been the weakest link on Florida's blueline for most of this season and is starting to catch some heat from the beat writers here.

Lilja played okay - none of the panthers blueliners really stood out IMO -although Vancouver played a very weak first 40 minutes last night...

Malik has been pretty consistent as a Canuck, playing with Jovo since coming to Vancouver.

but if Lilja has been the weakest link on Florida's blueline, how does a trade like this do anything for the Canucks?? all it'd do is make us a weaker team.

xtra 01-12-2004 08:51 AM

easy trade that i could see happening is:

Chubarov for Huselius with picks going one way or the other

Ajacied 01-12-2004 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtra
easy trade that i could see happening is:

Chubarov for Huselius with picks going one way or the other

Howbout Cooke for Huselius straight up? Huselius might have a superior upside, but Cooke plays a game the Cats seem to lack.

Take it or leave it, but I do now that they wouldn't take Chub with their overload at the C already.

nucks2001 01-12-2004 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Howbout Cooke for Huselius straight up? Huselius might have a superior upside, but Cooke plays a game the Cats seem to lack.

Take it or leave it, but I do now that they wouldn't take Chub with their overload at the C already.

Cooke is the only one who hits.. Ruutu does sometimes but it seems like it takes Cooke to get him going. So the Canucks can't trade Cooke for a no hitter like Huselius.

xtra 01-12-2004 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Howbout Cooke for Huselius straight up? Huselius might have a superior upside, but Cooke plays a game the Cats seem to lack.

Take it or leave it, but I do now that they wouldn't take Chub with their overload at the C already.


Chubarov and May for Huselius and a pick.

thats fair cause the panthers get a player who takes the body a defensive center and deal a player they don't seem to happy with.


also clears out a roster spot for Brookbank

NFITO 01-12-2004 09:35 AM

I can't see the Canucks having any interest in Huselius... too soft a player for us really.

especially for a fan fav like Cooke... Burke would never make that deal.

the only way that Burke even looks at Huselius is if Dudley just wants to dump him and give him up cheap - and Burke could be interested same he was in Hlavac - as a project player.

but for Hlavac we gave up a soon to be UFA who was becoming a cancer in the dressing room, and someone they were actively looking to move out...

Cooke is the exact opposite.

Mizral 01-12-2004 09:41 AM

Huselius is worth a lot less than people realize, I'd reckon. He's playing terrible and is super-soft. At one time I thought this guy was going to be a future 30 goal scorer, maybe more. But now I realize, he's simply too soft to hack it in the NHL for much longer. Reminds me a bit of Kamensky.

Idealy, I'd love to see the Canucks pick up Olli Jokinen for our 1st round pick & something else, but I just don't see the Cats moving him. Oh well.

membleypeg 01-12-2004 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I don't see why Vancouver makes this deal???

Lilja might be a nice dman, but Malik has been solid as well ... if we're replacing Malik in the lineup, I'd want to see a Witt type coming back, a hardnosed tough dman to play against who could play in the top 4.

Chubarov and Ruutu have also been solid for us too... both have improved this year - especially Ruutu, and both get solid minutes on our PK - which is #3 I believe right now in the league.

I don't really see any fits with Florida here... in the playoffs, would the Canucks even play a guy like Hordichuk over vets like May or Keane??

Hordichuk's toughness would be nice, but not at the price of any regular roster players, who are all contributing well for us.

After watching Hordichuk's performance last night, I was very impressed. He finished check after check without taking cheap penalties. He was very effective at disrupting our defence and causing turnovers which led to scoring chances. I was surprised at the quality of his skating, and feel that he would be a great addition to the energy and toughness of the fourth line (much better than May or Ruutu). With a disciplined performance like this, there is no question that he would be invaluable during the playoffs. Also, ask Mr. Ohlund if he would like to play against Hordichuk (he literally bent him in half near the Canuck bench).

As for Lilya, I don't think that he can be dismissed by "He has been the weakest defender on the Florida blueline this year". Last night he showed grit throughout the game. He was a constant thorn to the Canuck forwards including Bertuzzi. He may have got tagged by Jovanovski, but got right back up without giving an inch (showed courage).

I will agree that I have proposed quite a loss to the Canucks in giving up Ruutu, Chubarov, and Malik. I feel however that the make up of the players coming back would benefit the Canucks much more in their attempt to contend for the cup.

Having both Hordichuk and Brookbank in the lineup would ensure that we would not have to worry about liberties being taken on Naslund, the Sedins, etc. by any club. I am willing to bet that this would translate into more room given to these skill players, and would allow them to be more successful in their offensive pursuits. I imagine that the Vancouver crowd would love to see Hordichuk stirring it up. Just think of a line of May, Cooke, and Hordichuk.

NFITO 01-12-2004 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by membleypeg
Having both Hordichuk and Brookbank in the lineup would ensure that we would not have to worry about liberties being taken on Naslund, the Sedins, etc. by any club. I am willing to bet that this would translate into more room given to these skill players, and would allow them to be more successful in their offensive pursuits. I imagine that the Vancouver crowd would love to see Hordichuk stirring it up. Just think of a line of May, Cooke, and Hordichuk.

hate to see a line like that!

There isn't a center on that line - Cooke hasn't played center since junior - and the few games they tried him there in the past he's sucked - just doesn't have the same energy when he's not crashing the boards on the wings.

also Cooke is doing well playing in a bigger role than the 4th line.

if we could get Hordichuk of May and a pick I'd be all for that...

could have a 4th line of Ruutu-Chubarov-Hordichuk, and then still have Cooke with Linden and Arvedson on the 3rd unit...

Brookbank is a parttimer - and probably always will be... he'll likely be a healthy scratch in every game of the playoffs.

but that's really all I'd be willing to give up at this point for Hordichuk... toughness is nice, but having a shutdown center like Chubarov who ALWAYS steps up his game in the playoffs is a lot nicer... and Ruutu is quickly becoming very well liked by the coaching staff for the hard work he has been putting out - and has been rewarded with more icetime and bigger roles as a result - so I doubt they add him as a throw in, in a deal like they may have done a few months ago.

I agree with you that adding a tougher player would be nice, but it should be done at a cheaper price, and replacing someone who's supposed to bring that currently - so either replace May with an everyday tough guy, or replace Brookbank with a part time one (who's got better skills).... still need to do it without taking out the other intangibles we have - Chubarov and Ruutu are both 2 of our top 4 PK forwards right now and our PK has been a huge reason for our success.

jumptheshark 01-12-2004 11:16 AM

Cooke for Husalius straight up is funny---Cooke who is an every day player that the nucks wish they could clone--for a player from florida that is in and out of the line up for indifferant play?

as for the original trade offer--the nucks over pay by a lot. Chubby is a perfect 3rd line center--aint fancy--but he gets the job does. As for Ruutu----a euro that drops the gloves to back up his annoying habits

Peter Griffin 01-12-2004 11:40 AM

That's a pointless trade for the Canucks. Right now, Malik and Lilja are pretty even. So why would the Canucks trade Chubarov and Ruutu for an unneeded Hordichuk? You do realize that the Canucks just acquired an even tougher version of Hordichuk in Wade Brookbank, so why would they have any interest in Darcy?

BrianBurke 01-12-2004 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Howbout Cooke for Huselius straight up?

Yeah sorry, this one doesn't go for Canucks fans. Cooke is the type of agitator that makes a difference out there, and his energetic play tends to spark teh Canucks on nights when they need a jump.

From what I hear, Huselius has as good a chance of being a Jan Hlavac type as he does of being an impact scorer. We can do better.

Ajacied 01-12-2004 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianBurke
Yeah sorry, this one doesn't go for Canucks fans. Cooke is the type of agitator that makes a difference out there, and his energetic play tends to spark teh Canucks on nights when they need a jump.

From what I hear, Huselius has as good a chance of being a Jan Hlavac type as he does of being an impact scorer. We can do better.

Judging on some of the Nuck fans here who all claimed how they are such a tough, all-round team, why wouldn't they trade Cooke for a player that would adress their biggest need, namely a legit 2nd line scoring threat? Ruutu is a poor man's Cooke, and I personally wouldn't be dissapointed to see Bouck take Ruutu's role either.

As in value for their respective teams, no doubt Cooke is more valueble, but as in pure and strict trade value, Huslelius, IMO, would gather more on today's market.

Peter Griffin 01-12-2004 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Judging on some of the Nuck fans here who all claimed how they are such a tough, all-round team, why wouldn't they trade Cooke for a player that would adress their biggest need, namely a legit 2nd line scoring threat?

How is Huselius a "legit 2nd line scoring threat"? He has 5 goals this season, Matt Cooke is outscoring him while playing well defensively and playing his usually gritty self. And this in 10 less games. Huselius isn't anymore of a proven secondary scorer than Jan Hlavac was when the Canucks acquired him for a soon to be UFA, Donald Brashear.

Quote:

Ruutu is a poor man's Cooke, and I personally wouldn't be dissapointed to see Bouck take Ruutu's role either.
Cooke is turning into more of a two-way, shutdown player for the Canucks. Ruutu won't replace Cooke in any of the other aspects aside from agitating.

Quote:

As in value for their respective teams, no doubt Cooke is more valueble, but as in pure and strict trade value, Huslelius, IMO, would gather more on today's market.
That's very debateable. With Cooke, you know what you're getting. A soid two-way forward who can put up decent offensive numbers(15 goals, 40 points) while playing on the 3rd line. He's gritty and a sparkplug. Huselius is a talented player no doubt, but he's extremely soft, inconsistent and poor defensively. Thus far this year, he has failed to put up quality offensive numbers and isn't contributing in any other way, shape or form. Teams will be interested in Huselius, but likely only if he could be had for cheap. Cooke is the type of player that any team would like to add, Huselius isn't.

Arastiroth 01-12-2004 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Howbout Cooke for Huselius straight up?

That sounds like the Peca for Mogilny trade all over again for the Canucks. Only thing is I doubt Huselius ever becomes close to Mogilny. I don't think Cooke will become Peca, either, but I think he'll come closer to Peca then Huselius to Mogilny.

I'd rather have Cooke then Huselius. Cooke is one of the best 3rd liners in the league, imo, and still has some upside to him.

EDIT: Fixed it to being I doubt Huselius ever becomes close to Mogilny instead of Peca...

BrianBurke 01-12-2004 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Judging on some of the Nuck fans here who all claimed how they are such a tough, all-round team, why wouldn't they trade Cooke for a player that would adress their biggest need, namely a legit 2nd line scoring threat? Ruutu is a poor man's Cooke, and I personally wouldn't be dissapointed to see Bouck take Ruutu's role either.

As in value for their respective teams, no doubt Cooke is more valueble, but as in pure and strict trade value, Huslelius, IMO, would gather more on today's market.


Zeroing in on that last sentence, no freakin' way Huselius would get more.
As for our supposed need for second line scoring, that's quite overrated, and even if we did have that problem, I don't see Huselius as the solution.
Bouck? Not gonna see the light of day in the NHL. If he had any hope, he would have been called up before Fedor/Reid.
He's apparently no better than a 3rd option when the Canucks dip into the AHL (4th actually with Klesler there).
Cooke is very valuable to the Canucks, and the type of player contenders look for when they go shopping for playoff performers.

Mizral 01-12-2004 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Judging on some of the Nuck fans here who all claimed how they are such a tough, all-round team, why wouldn't they trade Cooke for a player that would adress their biggest need, namely a legit 2nd line scoring threat? Ruutu is a poor man's Cooke, and I personally wouldn't be dissapointed to see Bouck take Ruutu's role either.

As in value for their respective teams, no doubt Cooke is more valueble, but as in pure and strict trade value, Huslelius, IMO, would gather more on today's market.

A few inconsistancies here, M=G.

Huselius, as mentioned, has 5 goals. So do both Sedin Twins. Why would he be the answer to our second line when the Twins are not?

Huselius isn't far from the waiver wire. I can tell you one of my 'sources' actually told me he thought Huselius would be on waivers as early as late October. I'm not sure if he was right, but there's no doubt that he's having a terrible season in Florida, again.

Huselius' value on the trade market is at an all-time low. There is no doubt in my mind Cooke has much more value than Huselius does.

PantherBlood6* 01-12-2004 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
A few inconsistancies here, M=G.

Huselius, as mentioned, has 5 goals. So do both Sedin Twins. Why would he be the answer to our second line when the Twins are not?

Huselius isn't far from the waiver wire. I can tell you one of my 'sources' actually told me he thought Huselius would be on waivers as early as late October. I'm not sure if he was right, but there's no doubt that he's having a terrible season in Florida, again.

Huselius' value on the trade market is at an all-time low. There is no doubt in my mind Cooke has much more value than Huselius does.


That's beyond ridiculous Mizral...Huselius is having a god awful season no doubt, but it wasn't too long ago when he was a Calder finalist and, although he had a DISAPPOINTING year last year, he still ended up with 20 goals and 45 points.

He has the skill to be an elite player and although he hasn't come through yet, Florida isn't dumb enough to waive him and get nothing in return. Cooke is a nice 3rd liner and his types are invaluable, but when you look at the basics, his room for improvement is very limited while the sky is the limit for Huselius.

As for the original offer..value wise it is a good deal for Florida, but this team gets pushed around and physically abused when Hordichuk is not in the lineup. He means a lot to this team especially now that Worrell is gone...and like someone else said...he can do more than just beat people down with his fists.

Lilja has also been awful this year...I can't comment on last nights game but he has struggled pretty badly. Being paired with a defensive nightmare in Biron doesn't help much but his play has been rather soft and uninspired...unlike last year when he was a defensive force and very physical.

Anyway, as for the first proposal...Doesn't make sense for either side really...Florida can't afford to deal Hordichuk and Vancouver overpays for a fringe 3rd liner/good 4th liner.

As for the Huselius talk...Like I've said plenty of times before, Artem Chubarov is the last thing Florida needs right now...we have so many defensive oriented forwards that guys like Niklas Hagman are healthy scratches because of it. Samuelsson, Hagman, Kolnik, Ritchie, Horton and to a lesser extent, Macdonald all play an aggressive up-tempo game like Chubarov does...there is absolutely no need for him here.

As for Cooke....He's one of my favorite players and very tempting, but just can't trade our most skilled player for a career 3rd line guy..Huselius has been beyond terrible this season but it doesn't take away from the fact that he's by far the most skilled forward this team has and by far has the highest upside, offensively speaking at least.

nuksforlife 01-12-2004 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heimy
From a Florida POV it's a fair offer value wise but isn't practical. Having dealt Worrell away Florida needs to keep Hordichuk as their enforcer. Also, having watched him while a Hurricane I've never thought much of Malik.

BTW, I didn't get to see last night's game. How did Lilja play? He's been the weakest link on Florida's blueline for most of this season and is starting to catch some heat from the beat writers here.

Lilja is sure a cheap player, very good with the slash-on Henrik Bert and other. Other then that he did nothing special.


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