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-   -   Why Do Hossa and Hainsey end up in TRade proposals?? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=44311)

Habs4ever 01-16-2004 07:27 AM

Why Do Hossa and Hainsey end up in TRade proposals??
 
Ya I know they've been disapponted to us and they'll be career minor leaguers but my god, every other team in the league knows they are falling off the chart, and we wouldn't acquire fair deal for them anyways, we've had so many experiences when we wanted to unload Markov, Bulis, Ribeiro, Ward, Theodore, Garon, Bouillon, Ryder pretty much the whole groupe of core guys from our team, but somehow since 98, Houle, Savard learned to have patient with this guys and they all seem to have turned it around so Why not Hainsey and Hossa, The Question is do hab fans think this two guys have no talent, or just want to unload prospects just for the shake of it, I can't complaint so far about this organization but if this guys were to be traded for rent players then this will be no better move then that were made in Houle era, and just to clarify Houle was working with $30 M payroll, while BG has over $40 M to work with, no urgency from his part is what I could say, and if Leafs could were able to acquire Gilmour for 6th round I'd have to say we could easily acquire rent player for 3rd round pick, BG isn't looking for top talent, he wants 3rd line Centre, with maybe last year in contract or retiring player.

Habber 01-16-2004 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs4ever
Ya I know they've been disapponted to us and they'll be career minor leaguers but my god, every other team in the league knows they are falling off the chart, and we wouldn't acquire fair deal for them anyways, we've had so many experiences when we wanted to unload Markov, Bulis, Ribeiro, Ward, Theodore, Garon, Bouillon, Ryder pretty much the whole groupe of core guys from our team, but somehow since 98, Houle, Savard learned to have patient with this guys and they all seem to have turned it around so Why not Hainsey and Hossa, The Question is do hab fans think this two guys have no talent, or just want to unload prospects just for the shake of it, I can't complaint so far about this organization but if this guys were to be traded for rent players then this will be no better move then that were made in Houle era, and just to clarify Houle was working with $30 M payroll, while BG has over $40 M to work with, no urgency from his part is what I could say, and if Leafs could were able to acquire Gilmour for 6th round I'd have to say we could easily acquire rent player for 3rd round pick, BG isn't looking for top talent, he wants 3rd line Centre, with maybe last year in contract or retiring player.

Agreed.

There's just a lot of bandwagon jumpers around here who are all over Hossa and Hainsey because they're not in the NHL yet. They have to realize that some players just take longer to delevop than others and both of these guys could still turn into great NHL'ers.

I also agree that a rented player won't cost nearly as much as some might think. Every year at the deadline the teams out of the playoffs dump players to rid themselves of salary or just try to get whatever they can from soon to be UFA's. A late draft pick and/or a low to mid level prospect would probably be enough to land a good 3rd line centre.

btw, Houle's $30 mil=BG's $40 mil in terms of buying power considering how much salaries have risen.

Histrion 01-16-2004 07:43 AM

I included Hainsey in a proposal because he is something the other team would need in return. But if you read properly, I said that even though that's what it would take the get the deal done, I wouldn't do it because we are trading away too much potential.

As for Hossa, I never really liked the guy, he look lazy and desinterested from the game. I don't know if he will amount to anything..

Guy Caballero 01-16-2004 07:44 AM

Trading Hainsey would sting--I wouldn't do it unless we were getting second-line talent in return. He's going to be very good.

Hossa looks to be the most expendable of our prospects. Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin, Higgins, and Plekanec are all ahead of him, IMO, and you could even make a case for Balej (though I'm not quite sold on him yet). He's still a decent prospect, though, and if we could get a guy to help us in the playoffs, I'd do it. Every little bit counts, and shoring up the third line could mean the difference between winning the first round and losing it. We're not going to win the Cup, and we are still rebuilding, but we should still do whatever it takes to go as far as possible in this year's playoffs. The extra cash will offset the buyouts we've had to do this year, and the experience guys like Ryder, Ribeiro, Komisarek, and Ward would get would be invaluable.

So yes, we've held on to our guys since 1998, and it has paid off. But from then until now we had no real chance at doing any damage in the playoffs. This is arguably the best group we've had since Houle wrecked the team, so I'd like management give them the best chance possible to win.

picasso 01-16-2004 08:31 AM

Hey you seem convinced that we will be in the playoffs. Wake up, it is not a shoo-in.

Habs4Life 01-16-2004 01:18 PM

I would trade Hainsey but not Hossa

In my opinon Hainsey is nothing but a punk and likes to party too much, he has no dedication to the game of hockey which you must have at the NHL level.

Marcel Hossa does not have a very strong work ethic but he could turn that around in a couple years.

habitants9_4 01-16-2004 01:21 PM

Hossa is just not going to cut it, lets rid ourselves of him for the most we can possibly get. Hainsey would be a harsh loss.

#44_delivers 01-16-2004 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by picasso
Hey you seem convinced that we will be in the playoffs. Wake up, it is not a shoo-in.

indeed its not over by a long shot, lots of important games left.
i really hope we get in though, the playoffs give you a very good view of which players have intensity in there game. real good way of seeing a players max potential and charecter is in the playoffs. id love to see how ryder and ribeiro would do in the playoffs.

#44_delivers 01-16-2004 01:49 PM

and oh yeah there no way in hell i would trade these two players right now(unless its an incredible offer).
they have way too big of an upside. hossa can easily turn his game around.
and hainsey can change his attitude. the talent is defenately there, it just needs a little push to get to the next level.
the habs of the past were never patient with there prospects and it cost us.
it wont happen again.
people in here need to get away from fantasy hockey and get into reality, which is looking good for the habs right now.

BLONG7 01-16-2004 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I would trade Hainsey but not Hossa

In my opinon Hainsey is nothing but a punk and likes to party too much, he has no dedication to the game of hockey which you must have at the NHL level.

Marcel Hossa does not have a very strong work ethic but he could turn that around in a couple years.

What are you basing your opinion on Hainsey on??? Reading posts on here that Hainsey was seen at a club? When he got demoted, he had 1g 1a and was +3 and alot of people thought he was playing fairly well... and now he is one of Hamilton's best players in the last 10 games... I have seen him play live and watched several other games he has played in on TV and personally the Habs shouldn't give up on this guy yet, unless the deal is good, real good! Just my opinion. Hossa, well.... not sure?

Corey 01-16-2004 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I would trade Hainsey but not Hossa

In my opinon Hainsey is nothing but a punk and likes to party too much, he has no dedication to the game of hockey which you must have at the NHL level.

Marcel Hossa does not have a very strong work ethic but he could turn that around in a couple years.

How is a weak work ethic different from lack of dedication, and why is Hainsey less likely to turn it around than Hossa?

All-Star 01-16-2004 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I would trade Hainsey but not Hossa

In my opinon Hainsey is nothing but a punk and likes to party too much, he has no dedication to the game of hockey which you must have at the NHL level.

Marcel Hossa does not have a very strong work ethic but he could turn that around in a couple years.

I think they both will turn-out ok once they realize they could be making NHL money instead of AHL money if they work harder. What they both need are wives to smarten them up. ;)

Habsolution 01-16-2004 06:01 PM

I'm disapointed in Hainsey's attitude and we already have a very strong core of dmen with Sourray, Markov, Komisarek. Same for Hossa.

We have some holes on offense and I wouldn't mind seeing either or both of them traded to fill those holes. I'd not trade them for 30 years old guys with 1 year left on their contract though.

It's got nothing about bandwagonning and everything to do with not liking their attitude and thinking they are expandable.

goalchenyuk 01-16-2004 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLONG7
What are you basing your opinion on Hainsey on??? Reading posts on here that Hainsey was seen at a club? When he got demoted, he had 1g 1a and was +3 and alot of people thought he was playing fairly well... and now he is one of Hamilton's best players in the last 10 games... I have seen him play live and watched several other games he has played in on TV and personally the Habs shouldn't give up on this guy yet, unless the deal is good, real good! Just my opinion. Hossa, well.... not sure?


Hainsey have played at the start of the season when the team was wining 4-1 , 5-2 kind of game .He was playing 8=9 minutes per games , in the power play, or in safe situations .So stop to think he was playing fairly well because of that ; it's not truth .He was nervous and was not able to win the battle along the board and that 's why the team 've returned him to the AHL + the fact that he was supposed to have a little bit to much a night life ( but who can confirm that ? nobody probably )

RE-HABS 01-16-2004 06:40 PM

Why are Hossa and Hainsey in everyones proposals on this board?

Because they are very highly skilled, young and full of potential, but because most Montreal Fans don't have patience (which one would think they would after the last couple of long seasons we have had) they think they should be traded because other players have developed faster or they aren't developing as fast as the reporters in the sporting media have said they would.

People want to involve these kids in trades because deep down they know they have skills and can get us more in return than Perreault, Brisebois or any other veteran on the Habs over 30!

They are young, give them time...look at Ryder, Garon, Ward and even Dagenais. Let these kids develop and learn like they did.

Spezza spent a year in the AHL and isn't ripping up the NHL and he was suppose to be the next great one, should the Sens give up on him too?

jcpenny 01-16-2004 07:12 PM

I want to trade them only if they can get us a guy like Pyatt or Vasicek. Young big guys. Youth for youth there is nothing wrong with that.

Ronnie Bass 01-16-2004 07:42 PM

Wow I got to tell you I'm shocked at all the negative feedback on Hainsey, when you guys drated him I thought he was sure fire stud.

What the hell happen to him???

Habs4ever 01-17-2004 03:33 AM

Nothing actually!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou is God
Wow I got to tell you I'm shocked at all the negative feedback on Hainsey, when you guys drated him I thought he was sure fire stud.

What the hell happen to him???

He is pretty much having his best time in AHL, and wasn't bad in Montreal either I'd say some fans just don't like to see good potential talent playing in Montreal, before we didn't have talent now that we do they think we should trade it away for anything we can get our hands on, great strategy for Moronic fan thinking team can improve by bringing rent players, many teams have used this strategy but most often it doesn't pay off.

Habsolution 01-17-2004 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs4ever
I'd say some fans just don't like to see good potential talent playing in Montreal, before we didn't have talent now that we do they think we should trade it away for anything we can get our hands on, great strategy for Moronic fan thinking team can improve by bringing rent players, many teams have used this strategy but most often it doesn't pay off.

You're annoying.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou is God
Wow I got to tell you I'm shocked at all the negative feedback on Hainsey, when you guys drated him I thought he was sure fire stud.

What the hell happen to him???

I heard an interview on sportsnet with Hainsey in-between periods of a dogs game and he came off saying he didn't know why he was in the AHL, didn't know what he needed to do to get back up there with the habs and was basically saying he preferred Jarvis to Julien because Doug was letting him use his offensive talent more. He really disapointed me in that interview.

As for Hossa he is just floating on the ice. I wish he would find back his character.

Both have good talent and upside, particularly Hainsey. But they're not so good that we can't take the risk of packaging them to fill some holes IMO. But unlike Habs4ever said I wouldn't throw them away for anything we could get our hands on.

Razorblade 01-17-2004 10:03 AM

A trade is just that, a trade. Any single player is expendable if the return value is good. You could make a case for Theodore, as there aren't many like him who could steal a game, but everyone else is tradeable. However, you don't trade them just because they haven't lived up to their potential in 3 years. Personally I think Hainsey should be in Montreal in place of Bouillon, who I can't stand as a defenceman for the Habs. Let Hainsey and Komisarek battle it out for the 6th spot, alternate every night, maybe give the Q some rest and play both of them. Ron has nothing else to learn at the AHL level, every game he plays he is easily the best offensive d man on both teams, and him and Beauch are the most reliable in the defensive zone.

As for Hossa, well give him until the end of the year with the Dogs, see what he's like in training camp next year. They did it for Ribeiro for so many years, and finally he's coming around, maybe he won't develop until he's a Ward or Ryder in our developmental system. Of course, with his drive it's somewhat of a different story, so not even Nostradamus knows how he will turn out.

#44_delivers 01-17-2004 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs4ever
He is pretty much having his best time in AHL, and wasn't bad in Montreal either I'd say some fans just don't like to see good potential talent playing in Montreal, before we didn't have talent now that we do they think we should trade it away for anything we can get our hands on, great strategy for Moronic fan thinking team can improve by bringing rent players, many teams have used this strategy but most often it doesn't pay off.

very well put.
as for habsolution who called this paragraph annoying, well the truth hurts.

Ronnie Bass 01-17-2004 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution

I heard an interview on sportsnet with Hainsey in-between periods of a dogs game and he came off saying he didn't know why he was in the AHL, didn't know what he needed to do to get back up there with the habs and was basically saying he preferred Jarvis to Julien because Doug was letting him use his offensive talent more. He really disapointed me in that interview.


Both have good talent and upside, particularly Hainsey. But they're not so good that we can't take the risk of packaging them to fill some holes IMO. But unlike Habs4ever said I wouldn't throw them away for anything we could get our hands on.

Us Devils fans used to feel the same way about a certian young defensemen we had, I think his name was Sheldon Souray, we used to get so mad at this guy and when he was traded nobody complained about it. Can't really recall were he is or what he has been doing this season but I don't think were paying the price for our impatience. ;)

Defensemen do take a bit longer to develop than other position players it seems.

#44_delivers 01-17-2004 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou is God
Us Devils fans used to feel the same way about a certian young defensemen we had, I think his name was Sheldon Souray, we used to get so mad at this guy and when he was traded nobody complained about it. Can't really recall were he is or what he has been doing this season but I don't think were paying the price for our impatience. ;)

Defensemen do take a bit longer to develop than other position players it seems.

lou if you recall what waz his potential in jersey? did anyone know or waz it ever touted he'd be playing this good defencively/offencively ??
if you know do tell?
ive been to the elizabeth settlement and people tolled me he waz very slack and hard learner.

Habsolution 01-17-2004 12:33 PM

I'm sure the devils are mourning Sheldon's loss every day that passes. Besides who knows if Souray would have panned out the way he has in Mtl ? Same thing for Hainsey. He could pan out to be even better than anyone we have on our blueline but hearing some of you people he's the next coming of Bobby Orr. He sure is talented but prospects have been traded before and Mtl will trade one of their prospect one day. It will happen. And one day they'll trade a prospect away that will tear up the league elsewhere. They'll also trade guys that will never pan out.

Besides the only proposals in which I've included Hainsey were for Jeff O'neill, Dave Scatchard and Svitov. It's not like I wanted to trade him for Murray Baron. And people are all over me... :shakehead

Ronnie Bass 01-17-2004 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #44_delivers
lou if you recall what waz his potential in jersey? did anyone know or waz it ever touted he'd be playing this good defencively/offencively ??
if you know do tell?
ive been to the elizabeth settlement and people tolled me he waz very slack and hard learner.

In 182 games he had four goals and 22 assists, but the way we looked at him was that he might be a decent dman with potential to score a handfull of goals a year but that wasn't what drove us nuts about him, he never played his size. He defintely tried but he wouldn't use that size to his advantage, I always noticed that he would hit people with his hands not his body if that can make sense, and I haven't been able to catch any habs games so I'm curious if he still does that. And nobody saw this type of offensive ability in him but that being said the trade wasn't all that bad for us for we got Malakhov and he was a big part of us winning our second cup. He was partnered with Colin White who was a rookie and Malakhov was a pleasant surprise in the playoffs, only scored one goal but did play solid in his own end. But no he was never ever touted to play like this were as shocked as anybody.


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