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-   -   Luc vs. Andy (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=44571)

guzmania 01-17-2004 09:05 AM

Luc vs. Andy
 
I've been shocked twice in the last couple of days. Once by Luc being held out of a second game and once by a quote in the LA Times that says, "We played our best game of the season in Minnesota on Wednesday night."

I'm trying to figure out why the leading scorer available to the team is left out of the mix in what are some of the most important games of a drastically mutated season. We will miss these points against teams we should routinely handle. One night OK. If the Kings would have won Wednesday night 5-2 maybe you could say "best game". The Kings need Luc and Brown and Camelleri in the lineup. We are skating too many lunch pail, hard working but inconsistent players when you consider these other guys are available. (Brown has reportedly been available for some time). I hate to say it but it seems like there is something rotten in Denmark. I am a big Murray supporter, or at least have been, but things seem to be getting out of hand. Luc has never been known as a problem for coaches. Yes, he brings some floater mentality and isn't the fastest skater, but he's a winner not a whiner. For Luc to go to DT is very telling. I'm really disappointed with this whole business. Our AHL guys are playing way over their collective heads but they aren't the solution we need right now. Thanks fellas but...

Luc, hold on. Things might still work out. We need you more than ever.

Andy, I think you have got some serious musing to do on the problems at hand. Work ethic is an important component of the game, but so is God given talent.

End of rant.

punchy1 01-17-2004 10:48 AM

I am right with you mate. I said the same in another post but why this is happening I have no idea. Not to mention that he had almost 30 points in the first 41 games putting him on pace to eclipse his "that guy will never score" mark predicted by his detractors of 50 points.

He were plus 8 when yanked by Andy and like I said, to what purpose. He is a Hall Of Fame LW who is a veteran that is well liked and hard working and best of all, PRODUCING BLOODY POINTS. Must be something behind the scenes. I will say though that it is and has been these type of things that set my teeth on edge after Andy. I don't bloody get this one at all.

guzmania 01-17-2004 11:29 AM

Am I wrong? Doesn't this line up look halfway decent?

Luc-Cam-Brown
Fro-Arm-Klatt
Tripp/Pirnes-Stumpel-Barney
Avery/Brennan-Avery/Ebel-Lappy

The first 2 lines are better than what we used last night as #1. Stumpel has had his scoring tear. These are the money lines. IMO silly-assed as it may be.

two out of three* 01-17-2004 11:43 AM

Im with Andy. If you look at the games Luc has played vs. the games Scott Barney and Esa Pirnes have played they have contributed more offensively. Maybe not on the score sheet, but they have done more. And in my eyes, and obviously Andy Murray's eyes Luc Robitaille has NOT been skating well enough to play in front of Tripp, Pirnes, Barney, Frolov, Belanger, Klatt, Avery, Lapperiere, Sim, and some of the other forwards. You can make an argument that he has played better than Sim, but Sim is a role player and plays good as an energy player, and Brad Chartrand has the same case. John Tripp uses his body and adds size. Pirnes has played EXCEPTIONALLY well I think. Luc Robitaille > Stumpel. Stumpel is the one to sit in this situation. But whos he gonna take out when Straka comes back?

You can make an argument that we pay Luc the money so he should play. But the Red Wings didn't do that w/ Curtis Joseph, and they are doing fine.

Legionnaire 01-17-2004 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TradeModry
Im with Andy. If you look at the games Luc has played vs. the games Scott Barney and Esa Pirnes have played they have contributed more offensively. Maybe not on the score sheet, but they have done more. And in my eyes, and obviously Andy Murray's eyes Luc Robitaille has NOT been skating well enough to play in front of Tripp, Pirnes, Barney, Frolov, Belanger, Klatt, Avery, Lapperiere, Sim, and some of the other forwards. You can make an argument that he has played better than Sim, but Sim is a role player and plays good as an energy player, and Brad Chartrand has the same case. John Tripp uses his body and adds size. Pirnes has played EXCEPTIONALLY well I think. Luc Robitaille > Stumpel. Stumpel is the one to sit in this situation. But whos he gonna take out when Straka comes back?

You can make an argument that we pay Luc the money so he should play. But the Red Wings didn't do that w/ Curtis Joseph, and they are doing fine.

I'm with GoKingsGo28(change it back you jink!! :joker: ) He sat Luc the first game because he was ineffective. The second game, was merely because we played awesome against the Wild, and he did not want to mess with success.

punchy1 01-17-2004 02:37 PM

Then why have him Luc at all? Luc for what he has left at this point in his career has 29 points and is +8. He can't score from the bench and Pirnes could be replacing Tripp or an energy liner instead of a scoring threat. Luc slows down a spot and is sat. To quote Mr Horse, "no sir, I just don't like it". ;)

Legionnaire 01-17-2004 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punchy1
Then why have him Luc at all? Luc for what he has left at this point in his career has 29 points and is +8. He can't score from the bench and Pirnes could be replacing Tripp or an energy liner instead of a scoring threat. Luc slows down a spot and is sat. To quote Mr Horse, "no sir, I just don't like it". ;)

Fair enough, but AM isn't the GM.

agentfouser 01-17-2004 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TradeModry
Im with Andy. If you look at the games Luc has played vs. the games Scott Barney and Esa Pirnes have played they have contributed more offensively. Maybe not on the score sheet, but they have done more. And in my eyes, and obviously Andy Murray's eyes Luc Robitaille has NOT been skating well enough to play in front of Tripp, Pirnes, Barney, Frolov, Belanger, Klatt, Avery, Lapperiere, Sim, and some of the other forwards. You can make an argument that he has played better than Sim, but Sim is a role player and plays good as an energy player, and Brad Chartrand has the same case. John Tripp uses his body and adds size. Pirnes has played EXCEPTIONALLY well I think. Luc Robitaille > Stumpel. Stumpel is the one to sit in this situation. But whos he gonna take out when Straka comes back?

You can make an argument that we pay Luc the money so he should play. But the Red Wings didn't do that w/ Curtis Joseph, and they are doing fine.

word.

by the way, the new name is perfect.

punchy1 01-17-2004 02:54 PM

Excellent point Legionne. Sometimes I forget. That said, you have to believe that DT didn't go out and sign Luc without consulting with Andy first so I would have to believe that he knew what he were getting when he picked up Luc.

I would have to rely then on production to make my position for me and Luc has produced exceptionally for us when you consider what he were brought in to do. He is as said on pace (if he is given the chance) to score better than 50 points and his +/- is +8 so you can't say he were hurting us on defence either. Luc isn't the guy that should sit is the right point. Certainly someone needs to grab the pine but your second leading scorer who gives veteran leadership and experience who is playing well in his own end (great for Luc) when you are sorely lacking those two things would in my book be the reasons to keep that guy on the ice.

Legionnaire 01-17-2004 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punchy1
Excellent point Legionne. Sometimes I forget. That said, you have to believe that DT didn't go out and sign Luc without consulting with Andy first so I would have to believe that he knew what he were getting when he picked up Luc.

Again good point. However, often times we underestimate the role of GM. In a city like LA he has a lot more responsibilites than we would like. Unlike most GMs, he is also burdened with marketing because LA is not a hockey market

punchy1 01-17-2004 03:00 PM

Wouldn't Luc be a good thing for Marketing? I hadn't considered that bit but when i do, off the top I think that having a guy who is as loved as Luc and does as much for the community and given the fact that he is a certain hall of fame player would be to the Kings advantage if they knew the first little thing about how to market anything other than their own failures. The worst marketed entertainment business I have ever seen. Ever.

Interesting points again. I will have to chew on that bit.

guzmania 01-17-2004 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legionnaire
The second game, was merely because we played awesome against the Wild, and he did not want to mess with success.

Do you really think we played such a great game against Minn? I thought it was a good effort with an overmatched lineup. I like Sim and Chartrand, the jury is still out on Tripp and Pirnes, but they should be fighting for one or 2 positions. We need grit but we need to have more than 6 shots per period.

Legionnaire 01-17-2004 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzmaniac
Do you really think we played such a great game against Minn? I thought it was a good effort with an overmatched lineup. I like Sim and Chartrand, the jury is still out on Tripp and Pirnes, but they should be fighting for one or 2 positions. We need grit but we need to have more than 6 shots per period.

Ok, I'll just respond with a question.

Do you really think that Luc is still a difference maker?

guzmania 01-17-2004 03:50 PM

Yes, not the difference maker he used to be. It's only that we're so depleted in the kind of game he plays. Sitting him 2 weeks ago when Ziggy and Martin were still in I'd have less of a bone to pick. We must face the fact he is our leading active offensive producer, he should be in the line up against Chicago. Hey, I'm probably just grasping at straws in desperation.


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