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-   -   Blues Rumors (involving CHI, NYI, & CAR) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=45342)

degroat* 01-20-2004 02:18 PM

Blues Rumors (involving CHI, NYI, & CAR)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hadleyonsports.com
As I reported last night on the Big 550, the Blues are in legit negotiations with Carolina... the focus being Jeff O'Neill. While Blues officials are intrigued with Eric Cole, I'm told he is not available. In addition, the Blues are eyeing a defensemen with Glen Wesley topping the list.

O'Neill would fill two voids... a scoring winger for Doug Weight in addition to size on the wing. The Hurricanes acquiring Justin Williams from Philadelphia today could hasten the dealing of O'Neill but in giving up Danny Markov... will the 'Canes still deal another defenseman?

The Blues and Islanders remain in discussions with Dave Scatchard and Roman Hamrlik on the desired list.

GM Larry Pleau made a call to Chicago to test the Alex Zhamnov waters as well.

There are a few other teams the Blues have been in contact with... however, the Islanders and Hurricanes are the likely short-term trading partners if Pleau can swing a deal with limited trading assets because of injuries.

Two other items of note... as I've noted on radio for more than a week, the reason the Blues have limited trading assets is because Al MacInnis and Barret Jackman are sidelined for the year, Matt Walker is still slowed by injury, and I would be shocked if Jeff Finley finished the season.

Finley has been battling injuries since the summer and is very close to requiring surgery. Hence, eliminate MacInnis, Jackman and Finley from the depth chart and look at the Blues backline... the trading of a Bryce Salvador would make that group very thin... at best.

When the season began, every insider in the game figured it was a matter of time before the Blues dealt a defenseman and Brent Johnson as key components to upgrade the forwards. Injuries to the defense and another BJ meltdown emptied those plans into the abyss.

To make matters worse, Alexander Khavanov is struggling mightily lessening his trade value.

The likely loss of Finley, short-term and long-term, is a monster bummer.

Finley was playing his best hockey for the Blues during his stay in St. Louis over the first 30 games this season. He played virtually flawless defense, was more physical than ever before, and moved the puck smartly. Simply stated, the Blues defense has been decimated... significantly weakening the Blues ability to execute a "big deal."

The addition of Scatchard or O'Neill would be sweet if a veteran defenseman of skill can be packaged in a deal.

These are some of the items the Blues hierarchy is discussing in Columbia today. I suspect the team is charting it's course. In the meeting are Bill Laurie, Mark Sauer and Larry Pleau.

The fact that the "big boys" are sitting around the table is a positive because it offers clear indication that a game plan is being devised.

Stay tuned, and listen to The Big 550 (KTRS) tonight for additional updates.

A note on John Hadley's credibility: People will knock his credibility because they take everything he says to be a guarantee... meaning people don't understand the word rumor and he's also kind of a ******* so people aren't willing to give him credit. However, he most certainly has his sources as he has nailed some significant transactions in the past including the Tkachuk trade, the Weight trade, the Rucinsky signing, the Heerema claim off waivers, the Barrasso signing + others.

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
A note on John Hadley's credibility: People will knock his credibility because they take everything he says to be a guarantee... meaning people don't understand the word rumor and he's also kind of a ******* so people aren't willing to give him credit. However, he most certainly has his sources as he has nailed some significant transactions in the past including the Tkachuk trade, the Weight trade, the Rucinsky signing, the Heerema claim off waivers, the Barrasso signing + others.


Thanks for posting this Degroat.

The Isles are almost certainly not going to trade Scatchard, but I don't think anyone would be surprised if Hamrlik wound up in the west, either with St. Louis or otherwise. I still don't think the teams are well matched for a deal though, but I guess we'll see.

My prediction is that the Isles and Blues don't get together, but I make no promises.

AvsGuy 01-20-2004 03:35 PM

TO ST. LOUIS:

Jeff O'Neill, Bret Hedican

TO CAROLINA:

Peter Sejna, Christian Backman, St. Louis' 1st rounder in 2004

degroat* 01-20-2004 03:37 PM

Backman is untouchable right now.

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
Backman is untouchable right now.


With the kinds of return ST. Louis seems to be asking about (Hamrlik, O'Neil etc), can you really say that? Players like Alexander Khavanov and Mayers are not going to get you players of that ilk. Basically, I think Backman is quite likely to be one of the trade chips in these discussions.

degroat* 01-20-2004 03:53 PM

What I've heard recently is that Backman is as untouchable as Jackman right now. That said, if he was the key figure in a Hamrlik to the Blues trade, then I wouldn't have a problem moving him... though it would really suck seeing very good youth moved.

Personally, I don't think the Blues will be able to improve their team unless they pick up rent-a-players.

Reign Nateo 01-20-2004 04:02 PM

No offence to the Blues, but I don't see them having the assets to land a player like O'Neill. The Hurricanes will probably be looking for a young defenceman capable of logging minutes in the NHL as well as a forward prospect. Just seems like there would be teams like Montreal and Toronto with more to offer in that regard.

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
No offence to the Blues, but I don't see them having the assets to land a player like O'Neill. The Hurricanes will probably be looking for a young defenceman capable of logging minutes in the NHL as well as a forward prospect. Just seems like there would be teams like Montreal and Toronto with more to offer in that regard.


I don think the Blues have the assets, I just don't think they are going to move quality young players in the months before the CBA negotiations. But, if they feel close to contention, anything could happen.

Rabid Ranger 01-20-2004 04:17 PM

Blues ownership is at the point where just contending has grown very old. I wouldn't be surprised if the "future" (whatever that might be) is sacrificed to pick up a couple pieces to win *now*. That means a scoring winger for Weight and some defensive depth. Carolina has what St.Louis needs, it's just a matter of St.Louis having something of substance to offer. I wouldn't be shocked in players like Backman and Sejna are offered. Would that + be enough to get O'Neill and say Wesley or Hedican? I don't know.

Rabid Ranger 01-20-2004 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Thanks for posting this Degroat.

The Isles are almost certainly not going to trade Scatchard, but I don't think anyone would be surprised if Hamrlik wound up in the west, either with St. Louis or otherwise. I still don't think the teams are well matched for a deal though, but I guess we'll see.

My prediction is that the Isles and Blues don't get together, but I make no promises.



The Blues have several players of Scatchard's ilk on the team, why he's a focal point is a mystery to me. They need SCORING wingers, not bang and crash heart and soul guys. As for Hamrlik, he'd look great in a Blues jersey, but what kind of assets would have to be given up to get him?

degroat* 01-20-2004 04:19 PM

I have no problem giving up Sejna, but to give up Backman, the defenseman in return must be significantly better... on the level of Hamrlik.

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
The Blues have several players of Scatchard's ilk on the team, why he's a focal point is a mystery to me. They need SCORING wingers, not bang and crash heart and soul guys. As for Hamrlik, he'd look great in a Blues jersey, but what kind of assets would have to be given up to get him?


Lots of teams have asked about Scatchard. He doens't make much $, is very productive, and is the type of guy you need for the playoffs. A star he is not, but I think he probably has decent trade value.

As for Hamrlik, he could certainly be moved for contract reasons although I'm not certain that is going to happen. I haven't followed Backman that closely this year, but I would be disappointed if that was all we got. No disrespect meant to Backman, of course, I'd just would not want to move Hamrlik unless we are getting a front line winger for Yashin, or a big bruiser on defense.

degroat* 01-20-2004 04:36 PM

Let me ask you this, Darth... what do you think the objective of the Isles management is right now? Are they looking to get younger? Are they wanting to contend right now or just compete for a playoff spot?

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
Let me ask you this, Darth... what do you think the objective of the Isles management is right now? Are they looking to get younger? Are they wanting to contend right now or just compete for a playoff spot?


To be quite honest, it is hard to say. My impression is that the Isles think they can make the playoffs and be reasonably competitive. So, I don't think you are going to see dumping of vets for youngsters. But, there may also be $ issues that I am unaware of, and that could lead to deals.

I personally don't think they'll make any major deals until the off season, but we'll see.

degroat* 01-20-2004 05:09 PM

Hmm... how about Salvador + Sejna + 2nd for Hamrlik? That gives you a physical defenseman... no, he's no Adam Foote, but he doesn't take **** from anyone and it gives you a potential winger for Yashin.

Matt Walker would qualify as a big bruiser on defense, but I think Salvador is a better return for the Isles.. but if you'd rather have Walker (who is unproven at this point), that's fine with me.

AvsGuy 01-20-2004 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
I have no problem giving up Sejna, but to give up Backman, the defenseman in return must be significantly better... on the level of Hamrlik.

i'll take some of what you're sniffing, buddy, maybe tonight the Avs will trade Skoula for Zdeno Chara...

your Salvador + Sejna + 2nd for Hamrlik deal was alright though. its doable.

degroat* 01-20-2004 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvsGuy
i'll take some of what you're sniffing, buddy, maybe tonight the Avs will trade Skoula for Zdeno Chara...

I never said that the Blues would get that in return. I said that's what it would take to get 'me' to move him.

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
Hmm... how about Salvador + Sejna + 2nd for Hamrlik? That gives you a physical defenseman... no, he's no Adam Foote, but he doesn't take **** from anyone and it gives you a potential winger for Yashin.

Matt Walker would qualify as a big bruiser on defense, but I think Salvador is a better return for the Isles.. but if you'd rather have Walker (who is unproven at this point), that's fine with me.

I think a deal built around Martinek and Bates would be fair return for Salvador. Senja and Walker, I would pass on. Neither are upgrades over what we already have.

degroat* 01-20-2004 05:29 PM

Bates would be nice to have, but the Blues can't make a deal that weakens their defense right now.

On Sejna... I don't know if he could step in right now and play. He might be able to. Quenneville is hard on prospects and IMO didn't give Sejna THAT much of a chance (albeit more than he normally does) to prove himself. Obviously, the majority of Sejna's value lies in his potential so it would boil down to whether or not Mad Mike is looking completely for players that would help out now or for a mixture.

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
Bates would be nice to have, but the Blues can't make a deal that weakens their defense right now.

On Sejna... I don't know if he could step in right now and play. He might be able to. Quenneville is hard on prospects and IMO didn't give Sejna THAT much of a chance (albeit more than he normally does) to prove himself. Obviously, the majority of Sejna's value lies in his potential so it would boil down to whether or not Mad Mike is looking completely for players that would help out now or for a mixture.


I would be surprised if the Isles had any interest in Senja. They have several young wingers who are similar in style and potential (Weinhandl, for example).

Martinek and Salvador are relatively equal, in my view. Salvador is more physical, Martinek more mobile. So, I think the Bates + Martinek package is pretty fair and could help both teams.

As for Hamrlik, I think a reasonable deal would include Backman (if the Isles are sold on that player - and they might not be - I know I am not) and your first rounder. Otherwise, I don't really see a deal there.

H.M.D. 01-20-2004 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvsGuy
TO ST. LOUIS:

Jeff O'Neill, Bret Hedican

TO CAROLINA:

Peter Sejna, Christian Backman, St. Louis' 1st rounder in 2004

That's a fair proposal, and one that I would make if I were Larry Pleau, IF
I were fairly certain the Blues could be a contender this year (I have my doubts
about that, in addition to making this deal, the BLues would need to acquire
a significant impact d-man such as Hamrlik or Brewer).

The idea that Backman is untouchable is based on about 20 games this year, and
is absurd. Again if the Blues don't think they can contend, trading him doesn't make
sense, but if on the other hand they think they can, he can go.

A couple of years ago most Blues fans would have said Mike vanRyn was untouchable also.

degroat* 01-20-2004 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H.M.D.
That's a fair proposal, and one that I would make if I were Larry Pleau, IF
I were fairly certain the Blues could be a contender this year (I have my doubts
about that, in addition to making this deal, the BLues would need to acquire
a significant impact d-man such as Hamrlik or Brewer).

The idea that Backman is untouchable is based on about 20 games this year, and
is absurd. Again if the Blues don't think they can contend, trading him doesn't make
sense, but if on the other hand they think they can, he can go.

A couple of years ago most Blues fans would have said Mike vanRyn was untouchable also.

Then maybe you should call up Larry Pleau and tell him that Backman should be on the block. The rumors that he's untouchable have come from the Blues...

That said, I'm sure as hell you're not the one making trades for the Blues.

H.M.D. 01-20-2004 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
Then maybe you should call up Larry Pleau and tell him that Backman should be on the block. The rumors that he's untouchable have come from the Blues...

.

Your source? I haven't run across that quote from anyone with the organization.

puckyou21 01-20-2004 06:38 PM

I'm definately in no hurry to trade Backman away. With MacInnis likely retiring in the next year/two, Backman is the kind of puck moving/offensive d-man we will need.

Darth Milbury 01-20-2004 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckyou21
I'm definately in no hurry to trade Backman away. With MacInnis likely retiring in the next year/two, Backman is the kind of puck moving/offensive d-man we will need.


That makes perfect sense to me. And, I think you will find that talented you kids are in particularly high demand in these pre-CBA days.


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